Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Have your "typically gendered" interests changed?

Started by MsDazzler, November 21, 2011, 12:41:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pretty

Quote from: apple pie on November 23, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
Going off-topic :P buuuut...
You like pi? You must get what that thing is saying below my user name :D ("apple/(113/355) (to 6 d.p.)")
And also my favourite way to calculate pi is this...
Since 4 arctan 1/5 - arctan 1/239 = pi/4, one can just then plug 1/5 and 1/239 into arctan x = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...
Gives you heaps of decimal places only after a few terms!
I like it because it's relatively simple, and also generates the decimal places of pi really rapidly...

So I guess I like some of the math stuff too. But the stuff I actually was studying, I hated most of it.

I hate Taylor/Maclaurin polynomials. They take up so much paper...

I was pretty okay at math but to be honest I don't miss it. It is useful but most of it is not very fun to me.  :)

(stopping it has nothing to do with transition though)
  •  

Dahlia

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 22, 2011, 11:55:14 PM
My roomies actually had a discussion about that the other day - we argued about what constituted a "man" and "woman".... I asked if a FTM who is into "female hobbies" is any less man than a natal male with "female hobbies."

But still..... I would love to see and hear a FTM equavalent who's painting his long nails, doing his long, girly hair and putting on make up while claiming to be as much as a man as a natal man.

More then enough MTF's who behave very masculine, including very masculine interests....and claim they're 100% women....much to my amazement....but the other way around?
Do FTM's like that really exist? That would be the ultimate male emancipation, wouldn't it?
  •  

pretty

Quote from: Dahlia on November 23, 2011, 03:21:30 PM
But still..... I would love to see and hear a FTM equavalent who's painting his nails, doing his long, girly hair and putting on make up while claiming to be as much as a man as a natal man.

More then enough MTF's who behave very masculine, including very masculine interests....and claim they're 100% women....much to my amazement....but the other way around? Do FTM's like that really exist?

Yes, and I'm not naming names but at least one or two exists in the FTM forum. I see your point but I think it's the wrong analogy to make, for other reasons...

But I don't really understand this thread, why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o
  •  

Dahlia

Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
Yes, and I'm not naming names but at least one or two exists in the FTM forum. I see your point but I think it's the wrong analogy to make, for other reasons...

But I don't really understand this thread, why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o
[/i]
+1!
  •  

Lynn

I'd say because for a lot of people they get into hyper masculine things to make the trans feelings go away. For those cis males it may just be that they never tried to get into things like guns and trucks and whatnot, so they don't know if they like it.
For the ladies here, they did get into that to appear more masculine, and they actually liked the activities even though it didn't make any of the feelings go away.

That's just speculation of course.
  •  

stldrmgrl

#45
Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
... why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o

I had a rather blunt response to this judgmental statement, but instead I respectfully decline to share it, to avoid off topic posts.  Just keep in mind that women enjoy shooting guns, women serve in the military, women are law enforcement officers; women, just as "hyper-masculine" men, put their lives on the line every single day.  Gender is irrelevant when speaking in terms of why some of us have interests in what we do.
  •  

A

I'm sorry, but this wasn't a judgemental statement, I think. At least, not from pretty. It's a legitimate question, isn't it? It's a fact that military service, guns and such are masculine things. Does practicing that activity make a person more male? Not at all, and thinking so is what's wrong.

In my mind, the masculine/feminine character of an activity is strictly determined by the proportion of males/females practicing it, and the average opinion general society has of them. Judgement, of sorts, but the judgement of society in general. And it does not in any way imply the speaker shares it. The judgement of society is a fact, and however good or bad it is, I think it's appropriate to discuss it.

I don't think you should be angry at her like you seem to be. Did you misunderstand her intentions?

The "definition" of the concept of a masculine/feminine activity aside, I think pretty is on to something. MTF transsexuals like us were often forced, in one way or another, to assume a male role, and encouraged, to various degrees, to partake in activities deemed as male. Natal women, on the other hand, tend to be discouraged from those activities. Since people's interests are always influenced to some degree by people's opinions and preferences, as well as their own experience, that would explain a higher rate of male activity practice in MTFs than in cisgendered females.

Also, many of us, at some point, tried hard to be male in denial or to make sure they weren't guys, or were forced into "manning up" activities by family or friends that did not approve. As a result of such a situation, they might have tried things they weren't all that motivated to do, like joining a gun shooting club, which they, or their family considered manly. Then, even if it were a typically masculine activity and they were girls, trying it was liking it, and it stayed. In a way, maybe trans women have tried a statistically higher number of manly activities as most men (since those probably don't force themselves in manly things just because they are manly as much), and thus practice those activities more.

There's another possibility that it would be an effect of difference: a transsexual girl might feel she is already out of the field of normality, or has been "hardened" by obstacles, and thus would not care as much as the average person about doing something unpopular in girls just because she likes it.

Oh, and all of those "facts" are from my own mind, so they could very well be wrong.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
  •  

stldrmgrl

Quote from: A on November 23, 2011, 06:06:17 PM
I'm sorry, but this wasn't a judgemental statement, I think. At least, not from pretty. It's a legitimate question, isn't it? It's a fact that military service, guns and such are masculine things. Does practicing that activity make a person more male? Not at all, and thinking so is what's wrong.

In my mind, the masculine/feminine character of an activity is strictly determined by the proportion of males/females practicing it, and the average opinion general society has of them. Judgement, of sorts, but the judgement of society in general. And it does not in any way imply the speaker shares it. The judgement of society is a fact, and however good or bad it is, I think it's appropriate to discuss it.

I don't think you should be angry at her like you seem to be. Did you misunderstand her intentions?

The "definition" of the concept of a masculine/feminine activity aside, I think pretty is on to something. MTF transsexuals like us were often forced, in one way or another, to assume a male role, and encouraged, to various degrees, to partake in activities deemed as male. Natal women, on the other hand, tend to be discouraged from those activities. Since people's interests are always influenced to some degree by people's opinions and preferences, as well as their own experience, that would explain a higher rate of male activity practice in MTFs than in cisgendered females.

Also, many of us, at some point, tried hard to be male in denial or to make sure they weren't guys, or were forced into "manning up" activities by family or friends that did not approve. As a result of such a situation, they might have tried things they weren't all that motivated to do, like joining a gun shooting club, which they, or their family considered manly. Then, even if it were a typically masculine activity and they were girls, trying it was liking it, and it stayed. In a way, maybe trans women have tried a statistically higher number of manly activities as most men (since those probably don't force themselves in manly things just because they are manly as much), and thus practice those activities more.

There's another possibility that it would be an effect of difference: a transsexual girl might feel she is already out of the field of normality, or has been "hardened" by obstacles, and thus would not care as much as the average person about doing something unpopular in girls just because she likes it.

Oh, and all of those "facts" are from my own mind, so they could very well be wrong.

I appreciate and respect your point of view.  Being my post was the cause of this, I apologize.  However, I do not wish to indulge myself in a debate of opinion, as there is no factual conclusion.  Though, if you wish to discuss further through private message, I have no objections.  As a parting statement and to clarify your interpretation, I am not angry at anyone.
  •  

A

A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
  •  

stldrmgrl

Quote from: A on November 23, 2011, 06:21:00 PM
Oh, looks like I'm the one who misunderstood.

No worries, I see the logic in your assumption :)
  •  

lonely girl

Quote from: apple pie on November 23, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
Going off-topic :P buuuut...
You like pi? You must get what that thing is saying below my user name :D ("apple/(113/355) (to 6 d.p.)")
And also my favourite way to calculate pi is this...
Since 4 arctan 1/5 - arctan 1/239 = pi/4, one can just then plug 1/5 and 1/239 into arctan x = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...
Gives you heaps of decimal places only after a few terms!
I like it because it's relatively simple, and also generates the decimal places of pi really rapidly...

So I guess I like some of the math stuff too. But the stuff I actually was studying, I hated most of it.
I smell taylor series =0
  •  

apple pie

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on November 23, 2011, 01:47:40 PM
Actually, I don't get it.  I noticed it because it's numbers, but I still don't understand how 113/355 relates to π.  And as far as calculating, like I said, I'm not good.  I actually don't even get what you're doing there with arctan (I remember the term from Trig, but don't get what's going on with your formulas).  I just did what I could easily to see the underlying Mathematical structure of the shapes evolving.

Oh, but I have won the Chicago Nerd Social Club π-Off for two consecutive years now, with only 42 digits memorized.  Next year, I'm getting to 65 and quitting.  After all, 65 digits of π are enough to calculate the circumference of a circle of diameter equal to the largest estimate of the size of the known Universe to an accuracy of the Planck length.  It's fair to say I'll never need any more digits and any pattern that can be expected to be found by calculating trillions of digits would be entirely arbitrary, based on its being calculated in base 10.

"An apple pie; the number π; I studied you in Math class and did all my work, but never got your digits" from Apple Trees by Ozma

"I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13." - Douglas Adams, on 6 times 9 equaling 42

apple / (113 / 355) = apple * (355 / 113) = apple * 3.14159292... which is an apple pie to 6 decimal places :P (but I thought the fraction looked nicer if i arranged it as 113355)
I never intended to memorize the digits of pi, but one day in secondary 3, I was bored in maths class and my textbook had 50 digits of pi on one page, so I memorized all of them... that's all I still know though! (but I was far from the only one who knew pi digits around me, so no nerd awards for me...)
About the formulae stuff, I'll explain in a PM ;) otherwise this is turning into a math thread!
  •  

Mahsa Tezani

I was a troublemaker then and I'm a troublemaker now. Even more so as I can get away with crap now.
  •  

Diane Elizabeth

I used to be into playing fantasy baseball and football.  I liked watching ball games  on TV.  I coached little league baseball.  Sort out a collection of sports cards.  These are the things I noticed that I am losing/ lost interest in doing.  I still love to go bowling and reading.
Having you blanket in the wash is like finding your psychiatrist is gone for the weekend!         Linus "Peanuts"
  •  

Jennifer

Great topic! This really got me to take a good look at myself.
I seem to be losing interest in all of my hyper-masculine activities and spend most of my free time exploring more feminine related things.

Jennifer
  •  

Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 23, 2011, 04:45:26 PM


They do exist, 2 of my friends don't want to loose their "feminine" likes. They sometimes wear a skirt out, wear make-up, et cetera. It has caused some difficulties with other transgenders and with therapists who strongly believe in a strickt gender differentiation of style.

Wow, they sound amazing. :)
  •  

Dahlia

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 23, 2011, 04:45:26 PM


They do exist, 2 of my friends don't want to loose their "feminine" likes. They sometimes wear a skirt out, wear make-up, et cetera. [b]It has caused some difficulties with other transgenders and with therapists who strongly believe in a strickt gender differentiation of style.

How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.
While trying to sell it off as 'emancipation'......
And of course 'no less woman than a born woman'....being agreed with by the most part of the (internet) MTF community and probably  their therapists...

So why wouldn't  a FTM wearing a skirt and make up etc wouldn't be 'a guy thing to do' then? (think of straight TV's for instance or gay DQ's)
  •  

eli77

Quote from: Dahlia on November 29, 2011, 03:54:21 AM
How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.
While trying to sell it off as 'emancipation'......
And of course 'no less woman than a born woman'....being agreed with by the most part of the (internet) MTF community and probably  their therapists...

So why wouldn't  a FTM wearing a skirt and make up etc wouldn't be 'a guy thing to do' then? (think of straight TV's for instance or gay DQ's)

You are conflating two entirely unrelated things. Trans women who present a non-femme appearance are EXTREMELY rare, to the point of practically being a myth as far as most people are concerned. Yes, there happen to be a few on Susan's, which is very unusual. Placing interests and behaviour in the same group with presentation is, well, silly. Cause they don't go together.

I'm one of those very few who is non-femme in presentation; however, I don't have particularly masculine interests or behaviour. Actually my behaviour - the way I move, walk, talk, sit, etc. - is more than a little feminine.
  •  

madirocks

Personally, I've always liked girly things, with the exception of motorcycles and cars (but that's girly too right??). I don't think my interests will change in the least, prior to transition.
  •  

Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Dahlia on November 29, 2011, 03:54:21 AM
How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.

+1

Well just because someone wants to look feminine doesn't mean the appearance matches the personality. I've said it before and I'll say it again, transition is largely about appearances. When I think of how similar male and females are in behavior, I largely am doing this for my appearance and nothing else. It's not like I sit around and think, "wow, I am female..." it's like the boy me now but prettier...

I remember my therapy group was largely a bunch of people who used to present as masculine men having a lot of trouble living as females. Their appearances aside(which IMO wasn't good), I wondered why they were doing this. Ironically, they lived successfully as males at one time and most were part time. They were Information technology types, Serving in the military, etc it seemed they were more into the fantasy of being a woman than actually living as one. I wasn't never masculine growing up, it was really hard for me to behave like a man. I even told a few of them, "I had dated flaming gay men who were more feminine than you"

Growing up I had always hung out with the girls and been the "gay best friend". It wasn't hard for me to live in girl world...
  •