I've just finished watching Aeon Flux where the remains of the human race are all clones & this reminded me of something I spent quite alot of time thinking about when the issue of cloning first hit the news several years ago.

If human cloning was given the go ahead then would you consider having a clone of yourself made but with the correct gender?

I think I would have a female clone of myself created so at least a part of me could live a normal life, I would still have to deal with my problem but at least there would be a version of me that was free from these troubles. Whilst I was at it I would have my other genetic defects corrected as well.

What would you all do?
Would it be ethical?
Would it help you knowing that the clone would live a "normal" life or would the presence of the clone make things harder for you to deal with?

Discuss. . . . .

I'd love to raise my clone as my daughter.

Quote from: Lily on November 30, 2011, 03:18:13 PM
I'd love to raise my clone as my daughter.

My daughter is so like me sometimes I believe she is my clone! You know what she is me, just correct! So I guess I do get to see myself live a normal life!

Why...I'd be beside myself!

Interesting. It would of course be MTF only, assuming one could delete the Y chromosome and duplicate the remaining X. I imagine there would be a risk of either Turner or Kleinfelter syndrome, adding to the moral dilemma.

I could, depending on the circumstances, accept human cloning at the embryo level, but to term is beyond unethical to me. Not to mention that the clone is a separate individual, whose experiences would be irrelevant to my own.

Well, being androgyne it wouldn't really work that way with a "correct" sex for me, but I'd be for raising a clone of myself if the circumstances warranted it.

Quote from: Rain Dog on December 02, 2011, 08:01:45 PMI could, depending on the circumstances, accept human cloning at the embryo level, but to term is beyond unethical to me.

Any particular reason why? It's just another form of reproduction, essentially creating a delayed identical twin.

I thought a lot about cloning myself I would LOVE to raise myself...

Not to force a transition earlier... not to force the child to be like me or do what I like.... but instead to be there to encourage the child to do what he/she wants. I would probably understand his/her behaviour a bit better and fully understand his/her potential.

I think I could raise a clone of myself to be a better person than I am. I could teach him/her sooo much (and help him/her avoid mistakes I made).

I don't think having a clone is any less moral than having a twin... it isn't the same person... it is simply a NEW person with the same genetic advantages (and disadvantages) that I have.

Also, since I can't "father" a child anymore... the only way for me to have a genetic child would be a clone

Quote from: Lepidoptera on December 02, 2011, 08:16:39 PM
Well, being androgyne it wouldn't really work that way with a "correct" sex for me, but I'd be for raising a clone of myself if the circumstances warranted it.

Any particular reason why? It's just another form of reproduction, essentially creating a delayed identical twin.

For life saving purposes I can go along with growing cells to incorporate into my own body, but not manufacturing a whole new person as a scientific curiosity. The risk of complications would far outweigh the scientific value. To conduct a real experiment you would need a hundred XX clones, and another hundred XY clones as a control group, and study the effects over a lifetime, which is an absurd undertaking. And 6.977 billion people is more than enough.

I'd order 1 JenJen2011,1 fionabell...thats for a start 

Kristyn

Quote from: Rain Dog on December 03, 2011, 04:56:11 AM
For life saving purposes I can go along with growing cells to incorporate into my own body, but not manufacturing a whole new person as a scientific curiosity. The risk of complications would far outweigh the scientific value. To conduct a real experiment you would need a hundred XX clones, and another hundred XY clones as a control group, and study the effects over a lifetime, which is an absurd undertaking. And 6.977 billion people is more than enough.

But we manufacture "whole new persons" every day. In vitro, artificial insemination, the old fashioned in-and-out... While there are risks associated with cloning, they're not massive risks and the primary loss of life would be during early embryonic development, just as the grand majority of naturally fertilized eggs fail to produce a child nine months later. This is why in vitro usually uses multiple eggs and why sexually active women prior to hormonal birth control didn't always have 20 kids by the time they were forty. It's really not much different from any other form of reproduction. The question is about raising a clone as your child, not using your clone for an experiment.

Quote from: Lepidoptera on December 03, 2011, 12:08:50 PM
But we manufacture "whole new persons" every day. In vitro, artificial insemination, the old fashioned in-and-out... While there are risks associated with cloning, they're not massive risks and the primary loss of life would be during early embryonic development, just as the grand majority of naturally fertilized eggs fail to produce a child nine months later. This is why in vitro usually uses multiple eggs and why sexually active women prior to hormonal birth control didn't always have 20 kids by the time they were forty. It's really not much different from any other form of reproduction. The question is about raising a clone as your child, not using your clone for an experiment.

Just because something can be done it doesn't mean that it should.
Nonetheless, cloning will one day be legal, but in my opinion, it will be used too often as a selfish solution by people wanting a child to every price, instead of- if they now necasserily wants to spend their time on diapers and sleepless nights just for the fun of it- just adopting one of the millions of children that are already in need of parents.

As for cloning for reproductionary reasons I really don't see the point. There is more than enough people in the World as it is, there is no need for even more just because it can be done.

I  can understand the wish for a biological offspring to take care of, I just happen to think that creating even more people when there is not even resources enough for everyone as it is, is incredibly stupid.

Finally I could hire someone that wouldn't drive me crazy!  Or would be even worse?

Honestly i won't do it. Living with a clone  would be just weird also if she is just an identical genetical sister, and if she is really a clone than she would probably be transgender like me, why make her suffer all this pain on purpouse?
The desperate things is that i would have done a nice big sister or mother, but fate decided differently, i can still be an happy person and this is enough. I would vote for body swapping, brain transplant with all the risks, but cloning isn't for me!

I don't believe I would want a clone of myself. I don't understand what the point would be...

watch this and see what trouble you can get yourself into

Multiplicity starring Michael Keaton

Kristyn

It's nice to see that people can have strong opinions that differ greatly & not devolve into arguments.

So with that in mind, i've been pondering & taken the "what if" scenario a step or 10 further, sometime in the future cloning will either become legal or available on the black market, give it a few generations & society will think of cloning as acceptable.
Also Arthur C Clarke has theorised that in about 100 years it will probably be possible to copy the human mind & at some point in the future the technology will be created to transfer the contents of one mind into another, it's just a case of time & computing power (don't take A Clarkes timeline too seriously as he was a bit off on 2001, prediction is a tricky thing to nail down).

So. . . . . putting these two situations together, would you consider having yourself cloned with the explicit intention of having your mind transfered into the clone body, obviously the clone would have to be kept in an artificial coma to prevent a personality developing.

Would you do it??

I would, I think

Quote from: Jane on December 06, 2011, 02:11:14 PM
It's nice to see that people can have strong opinions that differ greatly & not devolve into arguments.

So with that in mind, i've been pondering & taken the "what if" scenario a step or 10 further, sometime in the future cloning will either become legal or available on the black market, give it a few generations & society will think of cloning as acceptable.
Also Arthur C Clarke has theorised that in about 100 years it will probably be possible to copy the human mind & at some point in the future the technology will be created to transfer the contents of one mind into another, it's just a case of time & computing power (don't take A Clarkes timeline too seriously as he was a bit off on 2001, prediction is a tricky thing to nail down).

So. . . . . putting these two situations together, would you consider having yourself cloned with the explicit intention of having your mind transfered into the clone body, obviously the clone would have to be kept in an artificial coma to prevent a personality developing.

Would you do it??

I would, I think

I understand you
I am a scifi fan myself
I really do believe we could raise clones just to transfer our brain in them with new technology possibilities, anyway I don't think it would be acceptable, easily.
And brain also get old... And what u do then?

When the brain wears out you could just download yourself into your next clone body.

I've just found the A C Clarke book "visions of the future" it was written in 1956, in it he predicted the following:

Communication satellites around 1960
Lunar landing around 1970
Colonizing planets around 2000
Memory playback around 2050
Immortality around 2100

These are a few things he predicted & as you can see, the further into the future he got the further out his estimates were so I think we have plenty of time for the human race to solve the ethical dilemas on cloning.

Well u can't download a brain! It's the combination of a billion neuron connections, and in the immediate moment you would copy your brain, different ambient factors would lead the copied brain to be only slightly different from you, so not you anymore!
It will end in up in being just your most similar replacement. And you would end up in being her victim!

That's a good point you raise but who can say how advanced computers & science will become, if you went back 100 years & told a scientist about cloning, computers & many of the advances in medical science then he/she would have given many valid points as to why these things wouldnt be possible.

If you went back 200 years & tried to explain cars, planes & modern medicine you'd be burnt for being a witch!
Science will continue to push the boundries between fiction & reality, space flight is one good example as people once believed that if you went into space & became weightless then you would die.

When it comes to science, never say never