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If you are on estrogen/spiro only HRT do you suffer from these symptoms

Started by Emily Ray, December 01, 2011, 05:45:16 PM

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Emily Ray

I have noticed a few of us MTF's are suffering some symptoms that can be found in this list. The list comes from Dr Lee's website on estrogen dominance. I have a number of these symptoms and next Tuesday I am going to see a new Dr who has the knowledge to treat this condition.

This is a shortend list. The symptoms that were clearly related to a GG's body have not been listed.

Allergies
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive
Depression with anxiety or agitation
Dry eyes
Fat gain especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs
Fatigue
Foggy thinking
Gallblader disease
Hair loss
Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Irritability
Insomnia
Magnesium deficiency
Memmory loss
Mood swings
Zinc deficency

With HRT we are exposed to high estrogen and many of us are not taking progesterone. My dr never told me about these possible effects. They may not even know about them. Progesterone is the treatment for these symptoms.

Huggs

Emily
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Jen61

Quote from: Emily Ray on December 01, 2011, 05:45:16 PM
I have noticed a few of us MTF's are suffering some symptoms that can be found in this list. The list comes from Dr Lee's website on estrogen dominance. I have a number of these symptoms and next Tuesday I am going to see a new Dr who has the knowledge to treat this condition.

This is a shortend list. The symptoms that were clearly related to a GG's body have not been listed.

Allergies
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive
Depression with anxiety or agitation
Dry eyes
Fat gain especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs
Fatigue
Foggy thinking
Gallblader disease
Hair loss
Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Irritability
Insomnia
Magnesium deficiency
Memmory loss
Mood swings
Zinc deficency

With HRT we are exposed to high estrogen and many of us are not taking progesterone. My dr never told me about these possible effects. They may not even know about them. Progesterone is the treatment for these symptoms.

Huggs

Emily

How many of these symptoms you had before HRT ? Do you suffer from other illnes ?
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Sarah Louise

Do you have any idea of how many other things could cause these symptoms?  Trying to blame it on not taking progestrone is going way too far.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Joeyboo~ :3

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Emily Ray

I may not have made myself clear and for that I apologize. I don't have all of these symptoms myself but those that I do have developed since I started HRT. Aside from the the promlems I have from the list above I am in perfect health and have been my whole life. I am not blaming all of them on progesterone deficiency. That is Dr Lee's position and that of many other doctors who are involved with women's health. If you don't think your symptoms are related to progesterone then you don't have to take it. But, you cannot discount the possibility. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions as I have done. Dr lee is a respected physician and has been treating estrogen doninance a term he coined and is now used by researchers in womens health.

http://www.johnleemd.com/store/estrogen_dom.html

Other doctors who support Dr Lee's opinion
http://www.drnorthrup.com/womenshealth/healthcenter/topic_details.php?topic_id=118
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/183
http://www.drlam.com/articles/Estrogen_Dominance.asp
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/estrogen-dominance
http://drbenkim.com/estrogen-dominance-health.htm
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-estrogen-progesterone.shtml



Huggs

Emily



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Jen61

Quote from: Emily Ray on December 01, 2011, 07:45:23 PM
I may not have made myself clear and for that I apologize. I don't have all of these symptoms myself but those that I do have developed since I started HRT. Aside from the the promlems I have from the list above I am in perfect health and have been my whole life. I am not blaming all of them on progesterone deficiency. That is Dr Lee's position and that of many other doctors who are involved with women's health. If you don't think your symptoms are related to progesterone then you don't have to take it. But, you cannot discount the possibility. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions as I have done. Dr lee is a respected physician and has been treating estrogen doninance a term he coined and is now used by researchers in womens health.

http://www.johnleemd.com/store/estrogen_dom.html

Other doctors who support Dr Lee's opinion
http://www.drnorthrup.com/womenshealth/healthcenter/topic_details.php?topic_id=118
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/183
http://www.drlam.com/articles/Estrogen_Dominance.asp
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/estrogen-dominance
http://drbenkim.com/estrogen-dominance-health.htm
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-estrogen-progesterone.shtml



Huggs

Emily


Look Girl, i do not want to burst your bubble but none of your linked doctors is woth anything, all of them just want to sell you something/

It al looks to me like snake oil BS
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Emily Ray

Yes, they want to sell you a $20.00 bottle of progesterone cream or a book. That doesn't make their ideas snake oil. If you want articles from medical journals then go to google scholar and research there. Maybe you would like me to open your pill bottles for you too. I don't have a horse in this race, I am only trying to help my sisters who are suffering very real symptoms that you haven't offered any solutions for.

http://m.aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/114/2/209
http://www.ocala.com/article/20111101/COLUMNISTS/111039957?p=2&tc=pg
http://www.encognitive.com/node/4745
http://hiwaay.net/~eueda/progesterone/facts.htm#fact2


I have read a great deal more, but I am limited with posting links because I only access the web through my phone. Honestly, I think that you should really do some research on your own before you go attacking my ideas and post without putting forth one piece of evidence to support your belief that lack of progesterone can't cause any of the above listed symptoms

Huggs

Emily

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Tyler

Ummm I had almost all of these symptoms before anything, and right now I am on Spiro only and still have them  ::)
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Emily Ray

I am not saying that low progesterone is the only cause of these symptoms, but if you do start estrogen and they get worse it might still be a factor.

High levels of unopposed estrogen can cause dangerous levels of glutamate in the brain which has been known about for over 50 years. It is called excitotoxicity. Will this cause MS or dementia? There isn't an answer yet, but I sure don't want to wait for the evidence to roll in and be one of the unfortunate sufferers

Huggs

Emily

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Jennifer_Lynn

Hello.

All those who have responded with negativity to Emily's post. I would like to know why you are wasting your time here. If you disagree that's fine. But if she posting links and all you have is stupid snake oil comments do you know what you look like? This is very serious business where talking about here girls. Progesterone and estrogen are a balance. When your testies were working the produced both T and P. Well for those who have been on HRT for a few months. Have you noticed there smaller and mushy? And when you orgasm just a little clear fluid comes out. Guess what. There not producing T and P like they used too. What do you think that does to the chemistry in your body. Load yourself up with E and spiro and maybe some finasteride. Think about it. Just how big an experts do you think your doctors are? They fight every few years over this stuff for the SOC (that's Standards of care for those who are new). I would also suggest you take a more active role in your own care because if you don't why should they. If you think about it we transsexuals have not really been treated with hormones for very many years. Only now is our treatment beginning to be taken seriously by a medical community that is untrained and where HRT is not very uniform. One doc will treat you one way. And yet another will treat you another. Get in the game ladies. And stop these childish comments unless you know what your taking about.

Isabella
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kelly_aus

The doctor who administers my HRT has been doing so for other patients for many, many years. Apart from dealing with trans people (guys and girls) she also specialises in HRT for menopausal women, so she is very educated on the pros and cons of various different treatments.. She is also a post-op trans woman herself.. Her opinion, which nicely matches my own research and prior studies, is that for MTF's progesterone is a waste of her time and the patients money.. She used to prescribe it, both as a regular daily dosage and as cyclical dosage, her patients mainly reported it made them moody and irritable.. And for those thinking it causes breast growth, stop reading trans sites and go read some real scientific data..

Oh, and progesterone is one of the products of the adrenal glands.. not the testes.. Where some of you get your info from simply amazes me..
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lilacwoman

I went the estro and progesterone ruote but when I grew a bloom of thick black body hair I did get lots of the symptoms listed.

not enough is known about hormones but personally I'd recommend sticking to E and S only over a second puberty lasting a couple of years or more.
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Emily Ray

Kelly-aus, yes progesterone is produced by the adrenal glands, but if you do a little reading of your own you will see that it is made by the testis as well. You can't get testosterone if you don't first convert cholesterol to progesterone. You can disagree with me all you want it doesn't make it any less true that estrogen unopposed can lead to high levels of glutamate in the brain and glutamate kills brain cells.

I'm listing a site that is real simple because some people can't understand the more complicated sites, but it doesn't make the information any less true. Kelly you real must have done a great deal of research if you missed the fact that progesterone is mostly produce by the testis in normal men. I suggest you do more reading yourself before you attack my post

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5275816_progesterone-levels-men.html

Lilacwoman- you choose not to take something because it makes your hair grow! How vain.

My HRT doctor who is an OB/GYN uses progesterone with some of her patients trans and non trans a
like. My psychiatrist is a transwoman and she recommended it for me and said that she would prescribe it if my hrt doctor didn't.

Doctors can have varying opinions on it and I have no problem with that. But don't put me into a box because I am trans and say that this hormone has no use in my body when I can go to a simple site such as wikipedia and read about all its various functions  in the body.

HRT is not a one size fits all operation and people who try to stick simplistic solutions on others are causing harm.

Huggs

Emily
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Kelly J. P.

 I was prescribed progesterone for a while... and in all that time I barely noticed a thing. Not the resolution of the symptoms you listed that I had, nor any of the possible positive effects that they are said to have. All that I noticed was that my mood tended to have fewer upswings.

I was a bit disappointed. It looks like I'm going to be breastless for a long while - and by breastless, I mean I have no business wearing any kind of bra, because I don't need support. Not that I could fit into any bras made... However, I use 32As to give the illusion of breasts in the meantime. Sometimes it's depressing, but I have to keep my hopes up - someday, I'll have as much boob as I want.
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Emily Ray

Kelly J.P. I'm sorry it didn't help you. I wear a 34A myself when in reality I am only a double A. I too am waiting for the day when I can have as much size as I want and sometimes it can be a really long wait.

Huggs

Emily
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Emily Ray

There was some discussion that the websites I linked to above are no more then snake oil. These are responsible Doctors some of whom are in regular practice. Dr Ray Peat. Has a PhD in Biology specializing in Physiology. He did his disertation on progesterone and related hormones in 1972. The other Doctors are equaly qualified to have valid opinions on this topic. Some of them like Dr Lee dedicated much of their life to the study and treatment of hormonal disorders in women. As a woman I would like to thank them for their efforts

Huggs

Emily
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Jen61

It seems that the problem is the adrenal gland and the levels of cortisol (hormone increased in response to stress), Please note that the elevated levels of estrogen are but a marker of the dysfunction and not the etiological agent per se.

Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):575-81.

Cortisol abnormality as a cause of elevated estrogen and immune destabilization: insights for human medicine from a veterinary perspective.

Plechner AJ.


Source

California Animals Hospital, 1736 S Sepulveda Boulevard, Suite C, Los Angeles, CA 90025, USA. info@drplechner.com


Abstract

For more than 35 years the author has treated multiple serious diseases in cats and dogs by correcting an unrecognized endocrine-immune imbalance originating with a deficiency or defect of cortisol. The cortisol abnormality creates a domino effect on feedback loops involving the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis. In this scenario, estrogen becomes elevated, thyroid hormone becomes bound, and B and T cells become deregulated. Diseases with this aberration as a primary etiological component range from allergies to severe cases of autoimmunity to cancer. The author has consistently identified excess estrogen or "estrogen dominance" as part of an endocrine-immune derangement present in many common diseases of dogs and cats. Ninety-percent of these cases involve spayed females and neutered or intact males, so the elevated estrogen cannot be attributed to ovarian activity. The author identifies the adrenal cortex as a source of the imbalance, which produces a variety of vital hormones. The author has developed an endocrine-immune blood test that measures cortisol, total estrogen, T3 and T4, and IgA, IgG, and IgM antibody levels. The protocol for corrective therapy involves the use of various cortisone medications, either standard pharmaceutical compounds or a natural bio-identical preparation made from an ultra extract of soy. The author's clinical success and the growing clinical applications of low-dosage cortisone therapy for humans strongly argue for sustained research into the nature, magnitude, and impact of cortisol defects, including an associated estrogen-immune problem, in the etiology of disease
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Jennifer_Lynn

Quote from: Jen61 on December 02, 2011, 08:25:59 PM
It seems that the problem is the adrenal gland and the levels of cortisol (hormone increased in response to stress), Please note that the elevated levels of estrogen are but a marker of the dysfunction and not the etiological agent per se.

Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):575-81.

Cortisol abnormality as a cause of elevated estrogen and immune destabilization: insights for human medicine from a veterinary perspective.

Plechner AJ.


Source

California Animals Hospital, 1736 S Sepulveda Boulevard, Suite C, Los Angeles, CA 90025, USA. info@drplechner.com


Abstract

For more than 35 years the author has treated multiple serious diseases in cats and dogs by correcting an unrecognized endocrine-immune imbalance originating with a deficiency or defect of cortisol. The cortisol abnormality creates a domino effect on feedback loops involving the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis. In this scenario, estrogen becomes elevated, thyroid hormone becomes bound, and B and T cells become deregulated. Diseases with this aberration as a primary etiological component range from allergies to severe cases of autoimmunity to cancer. The author has consistently identified excess estrogen or "estrogen dominance" as part of an endocrine-immune derangement present in many common diseases of dogs and cats. Ninety-percent of these cases involve spayed females and neutered or intact males, so the elevated estrogen cannot be attributed to ovarian activity. The author identifies the adrenal cortex as a source of the imbalance, which produces a variety of vital hormones. The author has developed an endocrine-immune blood test that measures cortisol, total estrogen, T3 and T4, and IgA, IgG, and IgM antibody levels. The protocol for corrective therapy involves the use of various cortisone medications, either standard pharmaceutical compounds or a natural bio-identical preparation made from an ultra extract of soy. The author's clinical success and the growing clinical applications of low-dosage cortisone therapy for humans strongly argue for sustained research into the nature, magnitude, and impact of cortisol defects, including an associated estrogen-immune problem, in the etiology of disease

Ok so I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you equating the blood chemistry of our 4 legged friend to the problem that Emily is talking about? Is that right?

Isabella
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Jen61

Quote from: Isabella_Anne on December 02, 2011, 08:47:18 PM
Ok so I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you equating the blood chemistry of our 4 legged friend to the problem that Emily is talking about? Is that right?

Isabella

No Honey Bunny, what I did was to look in the medical database (NCBI/PubMed) for papers containing the terms: estrogene and dominance. The best I can come up, related to this thread, was posted. Read it and make your mind, do not argue with me, I am just presenting you with a medical publication.

I learn longtime ago the futility of trying to educate the GID community, they belive what they want to belive, not worth my energies.
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