funny...I can't remember the last time a witch burned a christian at the stake or had her beheaded

wonder when the last time it happened to a witch by a christian?

oh yeah we wern't gonna talk about that....

Quote from: cynthialee on December 01, 2011, 11:00:27 PM
funny...I can't remember the last time a witch burned a christian at the stake or had her beheaded

wonder when the last time it happened to a witch by a christian?

oh yeah we wern't gonna talk about that....

Some religions use words as well as the sword to condemn people and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.

I am Wiccan. I am ordained as a Priestess and I am a 3rd degree witch. Trust me when I say this, there has been countless times when a Wiccan had bashed another person next to me simply because that person was a Christian...and the Christian said nothing to them to warrant such a response. I had to remove one witch from a coven I was part of because all she contributed to our coven was negative energy from her constant bitching and complaining about Christians and Jews. I have seen just as many fundamentalist Wiccans as I have fundamentalist Christians. The numbers are higher for fundamentalist Christians because there are more of them. But for ratio, it is dead even.

No one religion is innocent and anyone can be victims or persecutors. It has to do with power and responsibility. I have been in enough covens to tell you beyond a shadow of doubt and without hesitation that if Wiccas, other witches, or Pagans somehow became the "State Religion" there will be temptations and falling from grace from within the Pagan community just as it had been with Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc. Power corrupts.

And you ask when the last time a witch (or more widely, a pagan) burned a a Christian, behead them or put them to a stake? It happened from 50 CE to 313 CE. It happened because they were the state religion. They had all the cards.

It happens in every religion where that religion becomes part of the state.

So no, it is not just Christians. This is 8 years of Religious History talking. Not just ramblings from my mouth.

and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.

Bull->-bleeped-<-.  Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality.  You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.

Define: your concept of  Evil

Define: your concept of Empire

If you truly  wish to have an interesting debate can you define what you wish to debate.

Random thoughts are just that. People forget this. You can only truly debate the interpretation of facts. Otherwise you are debating opinion.

Going to bed.

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
Bull->-bleeped-<-.  Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality.  You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.

Yeah, but the skilled wielder of the spoken word can work insidiously behind the curtain and cause harm in other ways without ever putting themselves in jeopardy. 

We have no problem stopping, arresting and incarcerating the person who causes obvious physical harm but we are slow to act when one's civil rights are harmed.  And that does nothing to discourage those who have a propensity to deny you your civil rights simply because you aren't like them. 

Vile words and violence are not the same.

If I tear into someone and make their feelings hurt it is no where near as damageing as being killed.

I am also Wicca and to hear anouther wiccan make excuses for christians is just mind blowing.

Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.

Bull->-bleeped-<-.  Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality.  You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.

So many LGBT people kill themselves because of bullying. And much of that bullying comes from words. I thought you were smarter than that, tekla.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 02, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
Vile words and violence are not the same.

If I tear into someone and make their feelings hurt it is no where near as damageing as being killed.

Say that to Jamey Rodemeyer, Megan Meier, Phoebe Prince, and countless of other people who killed themselves because of the hateful things said to them. I am sure that death is the same kind of death a sword makes.

QuoteI am also Wicca and to hear anouther wiccan make excuses for christians is just mind blowing.

Excuses? No, not at all. Glorifying everything wicca and making anything christian to look evil? I don't play that game. There are good things and evil things that happen in both Christianity and Paganism. You should see that rather than pointing your finger at one religion and then using your energies about how bad they are.

You wanted to know when the last time a Pagan killed, beheaded, staked a Christian. I told you. I can give you written accounts of those who were killed for being a Christian by the hands of Pagans if you wish. There are quite a few.

I respect all religions and I see the beauty of diversity in many things. I don't just adhere to a faith and bash the hell out of another one. That's rather immature and it's no different than a fundamentalist southern baptist doing it.

In case one doubts I am both a Wiccan and working in a UCC church:

Here is one of three altars in my Seminary apartment:


My front door:


In the Sacristy at the church preparing the Eucharist:


And both the Pagans and the Christians know I respect each other. And I am not the only one trying to bridge the gap between Christians and Pagans. A musician has done the same thing with the youtube video I made .

and in my oppinion lol this is the reason the best religion is no religion i take my peace from my own conversations with a higher power any attempt at organized religion eventually brings pain loss war and of course death
jessi

Quote from: cynthialee on November 30, 2011, 10:07:48 AM
Oil is almost depleted. True.
There is only about 75 years worth of fissable material left. True.

But the sun will shine on long after mankind has evolved off of this rock or out right become extinct. There is plenty of energy to harvest.

However...the powers that be will keep a close tight-fisted grip on energy in the future. Perceived scarcity is scarcity. And a scarce resource fetches top dollar.

NuclearPowerDaily.com estimated ("How Much Longer Will World Reserves Of The Nuclear Fuel Uranium Last?") that there exists in excess of 200 years worth of fissile material in existence.

Cheap oil is almost depleted, but there remains an abundant supply of hydrocarbon fuels in the form of oil shale, oil sands, tar sands, and deep gas, with several supergiant (fields >1 billion barrels oil equivalent) discoveries in the past few years.

You make a good point, however, when you note that alternative energy sources have unlimited potential.  Solar, tidal, wind, and OTEC all have applications to supplement hydrocarbon and nuclear energy - but at what cost?

Quote from: spacial on November 30, 2011, 09:13:53 AM
America isn't an evil empire...

You could have stopped there.

America was the beacon for the demise of despotic monarchsm, fought a bloody civil war to eliminate slavery, defeated totalitarian fascism, Asian militarism, and the Soviet hegemony.  America is holding the line against Maoist communism and Islamofascism.

American is not perfect, but it had played the central role is freeing more people than any other society in history.

Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 12:54:09 AMYou make a good point, however, when you note that alternative energy sources have unlimited potential.  Solar, tidal, wind, and OTEC all have applications to supplement hydrocarbon and nuclear energy - but at what cost?

A greener earth... priceless.

Today we always talk about the cost of making something better compared to the cost of doing nothing, at the moment.  There was a time when we looked into the future and said, "We need to do this," and we did it.  I wonder what a debate in Congress would sound like today if we never built interstate highways back in the 50's and were considering building them now.

I also wonder what things would be like today if back when the price of oil shot up in the 70's we started investing in electric powered vehicles and wind and solar energy. 

Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House.  Ronald Reagan tore them off.  Thirty years later Barack Obama re-installed them.  There's something to be said about the value of foresight, when those who have it use it.   

Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 01:15:07 AM
You could have stopped there.

America was the beacon for the demise of despotic monarchsm, fought a bloody civil war to eliminate slavery, defeated totalitarian fascism, Asian militarism, and the Soviet hegemony.  America is holding the line against Maoist communism and Islamofascism.

American is not perfect, but it had played the central role is freeing more people than any other society in history.

Bwahahahahaha, all on it's own too....

wait, you were serious? In that case I invite you to buy a history book, and along with it a clue.

Quote from: Julie Marie on December 03, 2011, 06:58:20 AM
A greener earth... priceless.

Today we always talk about the cost of making something better compared to the cost of doing nothing, at the moment.  There was a time when we looked into the future and said, "We need to do this," and we did it.  I wonder what a debate in Congress would sound like today if we never built interstate highways back in the 50's and were considering building them now.

I also wonder what things would be like today if back when the price of oil shot up in the 70's we started investing in electric powered vehicles and wind and solar energy. 

Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House.  Ronald Reagan tore them off.  Thirty years later Barack Obama re-installed them.  There's something to be said about the value of foresight, when those who have it use it.

So then, in your quest for a "greener earth," you're willing to accept wind farms across the landscape, solar arrays covering the deserts of the southwest and every rooftop in the sun belt, and tidal cofferdams across every narrow bay and inlet???  Not to mention hydro electric plants on every major river.

A few years ago I consulted on wind energy proposal to be sited on the coast of California, near Point Arguello.  It was a near-perfect location - out of sight, consistent coastal winds, little public access (due to a nearby air force base) - and the environmentalists had a meltdown.  The greenies talk good game about non-fossil fuel alternatives, but fight any reasonable proposal.

Alternative energy has been subsidized for some time, and yet it remains unpopular ("Not in my backyard!" - see Ted Kennedy) and cost ineffective.  I prefer to let the free market settle the issue.  And eventually fossil fuels will become so expensive, the alternatives will be welcomed.

Quote from: pixiegirl on December 03, 2011, 12:34:28 PM
Bwahahahahaha, all on it's own too....

wait, you were serious? In that case I invite you to buy a history book, and along with it a clue.

The American anti-monarchist sentiment may have, perhaps, had it antecedent in the Glorious Revolution in England is the 1680s, but compare if you will, the percentage of the world's population that lived under an absolute monarch in 1776, versus the percentage today.  Even in those remaining monarchies, many are some sort of constitutional form.

With respect to the rise of fascism in the first half of the 1900s, Great Britain was barely able to hold its own against the forces of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.  Were it not for, first, the American supply train to Britain, and second, direct American military involvement, fascism would have controlled almost all of Europe and, by extension, almost all of the European colonies in Africa and Asia.

Much the same can be said about Japanese militarism of the same period.  The European world powers (particularly Britain, France, and the Dutch) were entirely unable to contain the Japanese expansion.  It took American intervention and industrial might to turn the tide against that form of despotism.

And you can thank the Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist-Maoists for the deaths of more innocent people than any other evil force in history.  We are talking tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of lives.  They put Hitler to shame.  Who would have kept them in check, if not America?

So any person that suggests that America is an evil empire simply does not understand evil.

Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
So then, in your quest for a "greener earth," you're willing to accept wind farms across the landscape, solar arrays covering the deserts of the southwest and every rooftop in the sun belt, and tidal cofferdams across every narrow bay and inlet???  Not to mention hydro electric plants on every major river.

I doubt it would be THAT bad, but sure, why not?  Wind, solar and hydro to replace coal, uranium and oil?  Not to mention releasing ourselves from the stranglehold the oil producing nations have on us?  In a heartbeat!

The visual impact doesn't have to be offensive.  Back when the cell phone carriers came into town to build their systems, I was cell site senior project manager for the electrical contractor that did about 50% of their work.  I sat in on plenty of meetings where we discussed making those ugly cell towers less visually offensive.  We came up with all kinds of ideas, including making them look like fir trees.  (We did install a few of those.)  While there was some complaints about the generic cell towers, the demand for cell phones that worked seemed more important to the public in general.

Once the general public begins to realize the benefits of alternative power, they will override those who oppose it.

Quote from: Julie Marie on December 03, 2011, 06:50:21 PM
I doubt it would be THAT bad, but sure, why not?  Wind, solar and hydro to replace coal, uranium and oil?  Not to mention releasing ourselves from the stranglehold the oil producing nations have on us?  In a heartbeat!

Oh my!  What would Earth First! have to say about that?

We can make strides at eliminating that stranglehold by stopping the use of fuel oil and natural gas for electrical generation.

Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.

Bull->-bleeped-<-.  Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality.  You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.

Why is Jesus at a bar? Why is bar capitalized? I'm just picturing jesus as a lawyer now.

Quote from: Felix on December 04, 2011, 01:48:53 AM
Why is Jesus at a bar? Why is bar capitalized? I'm just picturing jesus as a lawyer now.

Jesus likes to socialize, so he goes out to the local dive. His skills had been alienated by an increase use of "social" networking. LOL

Where else you think you're going to find him?  He sure ain't hangin' out at some Wicca Alter living room.


Are you drinkin' with me jesus
I can't see you very clear
Are you drinkin' with me jesus
Would you buy a friend a beer
...
Should we take a cab home jesus
Man, we can hoof it from here
I know you can walk on the water
But can you walk on this much beer