If a MtF had a bone marrow transplant at some point in her life, and the donor was female (mother or sister), wouldn't that make them partially a genetic female?  I've read that the new cells can become as much as 50% of all cells in the body years after the procedure.  Would the terms "GG" and "TG" still apply in this situation?

Or... what if a cis woman had the procedure at some point and the donor was male or MtF... are they still considered a genetic girl?  Just food for thought...

Lol no I don't think that would make you any less trans.

removed previous post i was actually 18 not 19 when i had my first marrow....

Quote from: mandyh92 on December 04, 2011, 07:48:01 PM
i have aplastic anemia when i was 18 i had a marrow transplant from mother and at age 37 another from her? hmmmmm so i could be 75%?

I think 50% was more on the high end of the range.  I'll look for studies to link.

If you received two marrow transplants from your mother, then almost certainly some of her hematopoietic stem cells are still inside you.  They can repopulate the cells of many different organs throughout the body.

Quote from: mandyh92 on December 04, 2011, 07:50:38 PM
removed previous post i was actually 18 not 19 when i had my first marrow....

Oh ok, I changed that inside the quote.  Do you want me to remove the quote?

Quote from: pretty on December 04, 2011, 07:49:30 PM
Lol no I don't think that would make you any less trans.

Though it does throw a wrench into the transphobic argument "you must have XX chromosomes to be a female".  For example, the Texas court that ruled Christie Lee Littleton wasn't a woman because chromosomes cannot change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christie_Lee_Littleton

no i forgot to repost corrected so i guess you did it for me :-)

It would be an interesting legal argument that's for sure.

Huggs

Emily

Your cells haven't changed. Adding some other new cells isn't going to change you. You can't usurp an identity simply by stealing someone else's DNA. Clever, but entirely unrealistic. Short of rewriting your own dna with some crazy-science-thingy-that-doesn't-exist-anyway you aren't going to suddenly become genetically female. Additionally problematic is the processes applied to your body by growing up and aging with non-female DNA. Even if you COULD rewrite your DNA doesn't mean your body would suddenly transform.

Quote from: Inanna on December 04, 2011, 07:40:56 PM
If a MtF had a bone marrow transplant at some point in her life, and the donor was female (mother or sister), wouldn't that make them partially a genetic female?  I've read that the new cells can become as much as 50% of all cells in the body years after the procedure.  Would the terms "GG" and "TG" still apply in this situation?

Or... what if a cis woman had the procedure at some point and the donor was male or MtF... are they still considered a genetic girl?  Just food for thought...

my ex sister in law had a bone marrow transplant and i was by her side at the hospital consultations, treatments, everything for three years. In a simple answer to your question: no.

The body does inherit some traits such as allergies. Matter of fact, most bone marrow from one gender to another isn't as successful since the DNA and other compatibilities are narrow. It can be done and it's been successful but it doesn't change anything to the recipient who is another gender.

If you were successful with a transplant with an opposite gender, you wont transform nor will your body be 50/50 (or even 1/100). If anything, you will get their allergies or other things. But nothing gender related.

Quote from: Annah on December 05, 2011, 01:05:34 AM
If you were successful with a transplant with an opposite gender, you wont transform nor will your body be 50/50 (or even 1/100). If anything, you will get their allergies or other things. But nothing gender related.

Thank god i didnt get her peanut allergy. I love my payday bars even though they are not on my diet :-( wish they made a diet payday.

Quote from: Whitney on December 05, 2011, 12:55:29 AM
Your cells haven't changed. Adding some other new cells isn't going to change you. You can't usurp an identity simply by stealing someone else's DNA. Clever, but entirely unrealistic. Short of rewriting your own dna with some crazy-science-thingy-that-doesn't-exist-anyway you aren't going to suddenly become genetically female. Additionally problematic is the processes applied to your body by growing up and aging with non-female DNA. Even if you COULD rewrite your DNA doesn't mean your body would suddenly transform.

First of all, I never meant anyone should do this for such reasons.  I was referring to those who had undergone this procedure in the past for a condition unrelated to being trans.

Next, your body is your body, and any cells that are part of it are part of you, no matter their source.

Finally, since my genes produced a female brain, I think the terms "genetic female" and "genetic male" are completely inadequate and inaccurate in describing the biology of trans people.

Quote from: Annah on December 05, 2011, 01:05:34 AM
my ex sister in law had a bone marrow transplant and i was by her side at the hospital consultations, treatments, everything for three years. In a simple answer to your question: no.

The body does inherit some traits such as allergies. Matter of fact, most bone marrow from one gender to another isn't as successful since the DNA and other compatibilities are narrow. It can be done and it's been successful but it doesn't change anything to the recipient who is another gender.

If you were successful with a transplant with an opposite gender, you wont transform nor will your body be 50/50 (or even 1/100). If anything, you will get their allergies or other things. But nothing gender related.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2202/7/14

QuoteIn particular, it has been shown that bone marrow stem cells can give rise to cells of different tissues, including neural cells, hepatocytes and myocytes, expanding their differentiation potential.

Now of course no one is going to "transform"; this is simply an argument against the concept of chromosomes determining whether we are male or female. 

Genetically female, anatomically female, natal female.. these things can all be questioned and broken down, especially with all the relatively recent discoveries concerning transsexual brains. I think it's best to just go with MAAB/FAAB. In the end, that's the important thing isn't it? What we were assigned at birth. Can't argue with that. Some folks like to add a C for "Coercively assigned M/F at birth". I kinda like that too.

i think if someone ponders too long the question of what ratio female or male they will become after a bone marrow transplant then that person is, in my opinion, is trying to convince themselves they are their chosen gender through "more legitimate means that is palpable to the public opinion" rather than simply "knowing" for themselves.

It is more peaceful with oneself to say "I am a girl" or "I am a boy" and then let your yes be yes and your no be no than to try to back up their convictions with sources with very little (or controversial) proof to help aid them in their own convictions as to who they are.

Bottom line: if you identify as a girl (or vice versa) then so be it. It's your body and you know best as to who you are.