My contention is that I was never male, as an XY creature born with a penis between my legs, the damn society gave me the "male" label, but I have never consider myself a male. Not a 2 , not at 4, not a 15, not at 20, and certainly not at my old age. Even if I die with the D... still attached my last thought will be that of a female.

I am alone ? Am I crazy ?

It's great that you knew who you were since you came out of the womb, but not everyone realizes this as early as you did.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 05, 2011, 10:16:00 AM
There is another thread on who (MTF) else was gay before transition, which also implies that if you were not gay then you were a male.

I don't think it implies that at all? 

Gay men are still men rite?just a bit more fabulous
Myself ive been confused about how I am,found women attractive but envied them,admired men but suppressed it(me being in a male body meant I did not find the idea of sex with men attractivebut always wished i was born female..
I purposely avoided non male things to avoid ridicile and rejection though.

Jen,

You are not alone.  (Catherine raises her hand) and you certainly are not crazy.

I posted somewhere else that my first retained conscious moment at age 4 I realised where I should be, and some how I wasn't where I should be. I was dressed in the wrong clothes. Throughtout my journey, I've played with dolls, learnt classical ballet, mingled with the girls almost as one. Even my wife commented early in our relationship that I thought like a woman. Parenting was such up hill battle. Constantly trying to think "What would a man do in this circumstance."

It is truly amazing the release experienced once you let go of that, and let the woman free. It's like a compass finding true north, like poles of a magnet finding each other, the ying fitting the yang, round peg round hole, square peg square hole. It just goes on and on. And I've never been so comfortable with the thought of finding my husband, as I am now..

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

I have to say that knowing it sooner or after doesnt change the way you were or are. I knew it late, but was always a woman inside, I just tried to adapt to society ignoring my own feelings, this doesn't make me less woman or more woman.
I find this post a little disturbed on this, we all are women, just life came with different obstacles and opportunities for everyone, i don't get the whole idea of i was man, i was never a man, i am more woman, i wasn't gay...
It is a bit ignorant and discriminatory.
We all were women, everyone tried her best to melt, in different ways, everyone failed till she reached the inevitable claim, ok I am just a woman, someone more lucky didn't have to pass many years, someone claimed in youth, someone tried to melt too much, someone not.
Being gay man or eterosexual man is just acting like a man. I tried to act like an hetero, i dont see in wich way this makes me more woman than someone that acted like a gay!

I remember loads of transness popping up throughout my youth. One of my earliest memories was when I was 6, arguing with my mom about how it was unfair that girls could wear traditionally male clothing but guys couldn't wear dresses and makeup. After that I started secretly cross dressing whenever my parents would leave the house, which continued until I was about 11.

I wasn't always myself, because I deeply suppressed it all in high school and college, but I did start out as myself.

I would agree, deep down inside I have always know that I am female... from earliest memories.  That being said, for many years I thought that meant that I was gay because I had no idea what TG was.  I couldn't figure out why, if I was gay, I desired men but not with my male parts.  Oh I was very confused for most of my teen years.  Because of this I thought I was some freak, a mistake and hated myself for it.   Having very homophobic parent certainly didn't help.  I hated doing 'typical male' things and feared to do 'typical girl' stuff...  I found the best course was to do gender neutral activities and stay under the gaydar  

Hugs
Zaria

Hi Jen,

No you are not crazy.   You are like a lot of us: female born into a male body. I am a lesbian. I have always been sexually attracted to women and not to men. In the middle of my transition now, that is still the case.

Jennifer

Quote from: Jen61 on December 05, 2011, 10:16:00 AM
There is another thread on who (MTF) else was gay before transition, which also implies that if you were not gay then you were a male.

My contention is that I was never male, as an XY creature born with a penis between my legs, the damn society gave me the "male" label, but I have never consider myself a male. Not a 2 , not at 4, not a 15, not at 20, and certainly not at my old age. Even if I die with the D... still attached my last thought will be that of a female.

I am alone ? Am I crazy ?

Kia Ora Jen,

At a young ages I had no idea what I was, all I knew was I wasn't one of the 'boys'... However I was fortunate enough to have a sister a year older than me whom I played and hung out with, gender identity didn't enter my head at that age, I was just being 'me'...Even in my early teens I hung out quite a bit with my sister and her friends...This was before I donned [what's familiar to many here], the heavy cloak of denial...

So tell me when you say you have 'always' known, did you ever 'behave' in a masculine way or was your behaviour somewhat effeminate  ? And if it was effeminate, did people mistake you for a 'gay' male because of your behaviour ?

I ask this because from what I gather quite a few late transitioner trans-women tend to do real 'macho' things to prove to others they are the real Mc coy [men], they become a real man's man so to speak. military careers-police-firer fighters etc ...In other words 'denial' set in, in the extreme ....

Metta Zenda

Hi Jen

You're not alone, I was never gay before transition, I liked girls more, even now, I still like girls more.
Just like you I wasn't male, never been and never will be, only because of parents who would beat the crap out of me I wasn't able to show who I really was, i had to hide the girl inside me, hoping she would disappear, for my own safety.
Didn't work and by the time I was a grown up and could defend myself I went to transition.
Actually, it's a matter of fact, that I'm homosexual now, because of the girls.

So, if you are crazy.....it makes two of us


hug
Annette

I considered myself to be a bunny rabbit, but the whole carrot and cabbage stereotype threw me off since I'm not fond of either. So I'm just me, whatever the hell that is, lol. Now there has been different mes throughout my life, but we all change during the course of our existence, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.

Yes, I was.

I turned out to be very feminine right after my placenta came after me...

Never tried to hide or 'compensate' it, so I was always feminine.

The thing that kind of annoys me nowadays is....that ex masculine/ex straight MTF's just simply assume I was the same like them.
It actually feels like they try 'to steal my genuine past'  as myself.

Most of them simply don't understand that a MTF can be very feminine right from early childhood and not trying to hide it.

Because that was simply impossible in my (our?) case and would have been totally preposterous. Not 'passable as a boy, adolescent, man anyway.

 

Well the word "male" is related to your assigned external genitalia. Your gender is something different.
I think the thread was trying to start a dialogue about how we expressed or misunderstood our gender before we decided
to transition or identify as transgender.
As for me, i have always felt like a girl but when it came to being gay i attempted for along time to try and relate with
parts of the gay community but it never clicked for me. i was a sex worker for a long time before i decided to transition
and while i was a sex worker I played the man role when i was a teenager. But when i got home, i still felt like a woman.
I feel like i moreso played a role then anything else and repressed my gender for a long time.
Also, it's funny to read Sarah's story because i had guys to also try and teach me how to act like a guy. Not in school but on my
block where i lived, i was like 10 or something at the time.

Not I ... I was a guy for a while despite all the signs suggesting otherwise.  Knowing what I know now about myself doesn't change my past.

Quote from: Sarah7 on December 05, 2011, 12:33:08 PM
This thread makes me a little uncomfortable. I hope you aren't trying to imply that there is anything better about knowing younger.

Personally, I have no memory of not knowing. I never went through a denial phase. I've never not known. But it really didn't help. It just made me think I was insane, and I was petrified that someone would find out my secret. I would prefer to have known later and come out sooner.

My behaviour was always seen as effeminate. Some friends tried to teach me how to behave like a guy in high school, but it didn't take. And yes, my sister thought I was gay since I was 10. I think people were more surprised to find out I was a dyke than to find out I was a girl.

Pretty well the same. I tried very hard to fit the role "assigned" to me as well, but it just never worked. At some point, every member in my family has questioned my sexual orientation, and so does everyone I meet.

I've known my female gender since I was five, but disliked my body for as long as I can remember.

Moreover, the fact that just because I ran with the boys, that did not make me a male either. I am just like any tomboy, and I am still pretty self asured and self relaint female. Femininity and masculinity are but societal constructs that, as far as I am concerned, had nothing to do with my self perception as female, or my sexual orientation and sexual role.

I deeply recent to be told you: were a man or your were gay, the whole fu... pain has been due to the fact that I am a female in this, this fu... body

Quote from: Jen61 on December 05, 2011, 07:32:36 PM
Moreover, the fact that just because I ran with the boys, that did not make me a male either. I am just like any tomboy, and I am still pretty self asured and self relaint female. Femininity and masculinity are but societal constructs that, as far as I am concerned, had nothing to do with my self perception as female, or my sexual orientation and sexual role.

I deeply recent to be told you: were a man or your were gay, the whole fu... pain has been due to the fact that I am a female in this, this fu... body

I think We all need much self esteem and love to go on!
I had a time in wich I wanted to tell everyone I was female, just to understand they had an expression as "so what?" I mean it was ok, i understood than I am not only a woman, I can do things, i am good at some of them. The word woman is an essential part of my identity but not the only one. I didn't even act as myself at that time, and very few even now! Not that i dont want to!
I don't know if you are in this kind of moment in wich you want to claim you're woman or even more woman than some of us. But i mean, after that there's something more!
Everyone, inluded me has to build her femininity, and also that something more, this is part of our double fight we all have!

Quote from: Zaria on December 05, 2011, 11:42:02 AM
I would agree, deep down inside I have always know that I am female... from earliest memories.  That being said, for many years I thought that meant that I was gay because I had no idea what TG was.  I couldn't figure out why, if I was gay, I desired men but not with my male parts.  Oh I was very confused for most of my teen years.  Because of this I thought I was some freak, a mistake and hated myself for it.   Having very homophobic parent certainly didn't help.  I hated doing 'typical male' things and feared to do 'typical girl' stuff...  I found the best course was to do gender neutral activities and stay under the gaydar  

Hugs
Zaria

Amen to that!!! Exactly how I grew up like that...

what exactly is important gender related stuff at 2? if you get the pull ups from the blue or pink wrap? seriously, i can't even remember anything from being 2. also, at 4 i liked to play with dolls, but i was nowhere near the concept of "born in the wrong body." i don't know, i believe in quality over quantity.