I was Gay before too.  I am a red hot blooded lover of men   My sexual persuasion has gone from homo to hetero.

Have you guys ever considered this?  Typically women try to avoid conflict more than men and be at harmony with the feelings of those around them; so if some of us had been openly gay that would have resulted in conflict and disharmony with people in our life.

In other words, trying to be heterosexual males was, in a way, a very feminine thing to do.

Quote from: Inanna on December 05, 2011, 03:58:25 PM

In other words, trying to be heterosexual males was, in a way, a very feminine thing to do.

LOL. Funniest thing I've heard on this site.

I disagree. Most heterosexual males see femininity as a foreign concept. You can justify that anyway you want...But gay men have it all.

Quote from: Inanna on December 05, 2011, 03:58:25 PM
Have you guys ever considered this?  Typically women try to avoid conflict more than men and be at harmony with the feelings of those around them; so if some of us had been openly gay that would have resulted in conflict and disharmony with people in our life.

In other words, trying to be heterosexual males was, in a way, a very feminine thing to do.

I agree, this is basically why, after asking if my name wss wrong at 4 years, asking to replace the colour of my  blue school dress at 5, I decided to remove and pray everynight to become a man, I did so hard in some time I forgot to be a woman

Quote from: Inanna on December 05, 2011, 03:58:25 PM
Have you guys ever considered this?  Typically women try to avoid conflict more than men and be at harmony with the feelings of those around them; so if some of us had been openly gay that would have resulted in conflict and disharmony with people in our life.

In other words, trying to be heterosexual males was, in a way, a very feminine thing to do.

yes

very much so

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 05, 2011, 04:23:53 PM
Most heterosexual males see femininity as a foreign concept.

Can't argue with that !

I used to be a gay man. Now, I identify more as a woman; Specially since I started HRT. In any case, I'm not too hung up on labels. I am who I am and I accept everyone as they want to be accepted. "Just be yourself, everyone else is already taken"

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 05, 2011, 04:23:53 PM
LOL. Funniest thing I've heard on this site.

I disagree. Most heterosexual males see femininity as a foreign concept. You can justify that anyway you want...But gay men have it all.

I think it's more like, "If I'm going to be in the closet about my gender, I might as well be in the closet about my sexuality too."  My family would have rejected me for either one, so why would I come out as liking men before coming out as trans?  I just did both at the same time. 

And for what it's worth, I never had any children with a woman... pretty hard when you transition at 20 as a virgin. 

Okay, I see that we got some variety here  as in terms of who you were pre-transition....

I am wondering, does if the experience of being gay helps making transitioning easier than having being straight? I am talking about for yourself within the self - not the people around you....

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 05, 2011, 09:05:44 PM
Okay, I see that we got some variety here  as in terms of who you were pre-transition....

I am wondering, does if the experience of being gay helps making transitioning easier than having being straight? I am talking about for yourself within the self - not the people around you....

For me it made it a lot easier. I like mostly boys, but I'd be lying if I said I'm never attracted to girls. That flexibility has made transitioning way easier. I don't judge myself much for it, and I don't try too hard to do the proper heteronormative (or whatever) things.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 05, 2011, 04:23:53 PM
Most heterosexual males see femininity as a foreign concept. You can justify that anyway you want...But gay men have it all.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Most gay guys seem to have a form of femininity that is really exaggerated and artificial and doesn't even feel like real femininity at all. Even worse, some of them who transition take this form of femininity with them into their new life, which leads to the "transitioned drag queen" effect.

There are always exceptions of course. I once saw a gay guy that was so incredibly feminine that I wouldn't be surprised if he came out as transsexual one day. I also don't understand why his gay partner could tolerate so much femininity, maybe the partner was a closeted heterosexual? 

I was bi before my transition and im bi now. Most of my friends are heterosexual males. I dated men and women before my transition but i was never involved in the "gay community" very much. Bad music and a bitchy attitude seemed to be the hallmarks of the community and i didnt see the need for it, my type of guy was never the flamboyent gay man but the gay man who acts just like anyone else and doenst let an attraction to men make them fall into a stereotype. I still struggle to see how sexual attraction can make people all act the same.

I know what people mean when they say that the "gay community" has been more transphobic than straight people towards them, ive been blamed by lesbians for trying to "steal their women" and had gay guys tell me that im just a gay man taking it further than it needs to be. Straight people however as soon as i explain ive always felt like a woman and theres nothing sexual about my transition tend to be fine with it, male and female from ages about 17-50 seem to be completely ok with it (and i dont live in the most liberal-left-wing bit of the UK either!).
I find when straight people give me trouble its usually economically disadvantaged 20 year old white chavs who shout things from the window of a peugeot 106 (that their mum probably pays the insurance on).

Quote from: Inanna on December 05, 2011, 03:58:25 PM
Have you guys ever considered this?  Typically women try to avoid conflict more than men and be at harmony with the feelings of those around them; so if some of us had been openly gay that would have resulted in conflict and disharmony with people in our life.

In other words, trying to be heterosexual males was, in a way, a very feminine thing to do.

Hmm.. I am not too sure about that, actually. For one, females can be very conflicting aswell, and in some aspects even more so than males, but in a different way. Males are more aggressiv in their revilary, or what to call it, while females are more practitioners of "psychoterror" and mental bullying towards chosen subjects in their surrounding.
I do see what you mean with females being more accepting, in general, and also agree with that to a part, but also disagree for the mentioned reason that females may be very conflicting too, just as males.

Also, the theory falls when considering closeted "straight acting" gay males, that keeps their sexuality a total secret without being closeted transsexual or any of the like at all.
Funny thing is, some of those males can be quite confliting too.

"Who else used to be a gay man before transitioning?"

Well, not me! Just about the only thing I seem to know these days...

AXELLE

I was a panda bear before my mind started to ache too much, now I feel like a grizzly surrounding a little pink tortoise.

I dated bamboos back then, now I mostly spend my time in search of an intergalactic transgendering hitchikers guide.

Quote from: El on December 06, 2011, 04:35:32 AM

I know what people mean when they say that the "gay community" has been more transphobic than straight people towards them, ive been blamed by lesbians for trying to "steal their women" and had gay guys tell me that im just a gay man taking it further than it needs to be.

Gay men are hyper masculine at the moment.

I acknowledge my gay past and they don't say anything else but then again, I entertain gay men instead of denying. I think I am some kind of rainbow mage...LOL. I make men "gay".... But I am very much in touch with my "male" side...whatever that means. I think for me to have the respect of the gay community and transition, I had to be a very gay male first... I mean from other perspectives, most transgirls are just "extreme femmes" when it comes to how gay men view them.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 06, 2011, 01:37:06 PM
Gay men are hyper masculine at the moment.

At the moment? When did they decide to try that fashion out?

Look, there is Nothing wrong with non-masculine gay guys, not in the least, but, the number of gay males I have met, seen and interacted with throughout the years, that have been truly and genuinly masculine and haven't radiated an act of masculinity, are far from many at all, I would even say rare.
Masculine Bisexuals I have met considerably more of, but truly masculine gay males, not many at all.
Sure, I have met many gay males that have acted masculine, or, as they call it themselves, been "straight acting", but when it is an act, it is very easy to see through that act, although a number of Cis-heterosexuals at the same time would actually consider that very same male as being masculine, as they generally cannot see through that facade in the way a "trained eye" can.

QuoteI acknowledge my gay past and they don't say anything else but then again, I entertain gay men instead of denying. I think I am some kind of rainbow mage...LOL. I make men "gay".... But I am very much in touch with my "male" side...whatever that means. I think for me to have the respect of the gay community and transition, I had to be a very gay male first... I mean from other perspectives, most transgirls are just "extreme femmes" when it comes to how gay men view them.

I don't doubt that is the case for some, but hardly always, as gays that are transphobic generally don't care squat about what or how the transitioner were or acted like before.
Yes, there are gay guys and gay females that are truly wonderful and accepting persons, but unfortunately they somehow seems to be outnumered by the ones with the opposite attitude.
Or, those with the crappy attitude may perhaps just out-voice the others, or how to put it, making it only seem like they are more.
In either case, they are defintely there and they are not few.

Also, if one has to openly be a gay male before transitioning to be "accepted" by the Gay Community, then that is Transphobic in itself.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 06, 2011, 02:43:41 PM

Also, if one has to openly be a gay male before transitioning to be "accepted" by the Gay Community, then that is Transphobic in itself.

Not really. Many of them think transsexual women are gay men in denial. But they praise dq's landing "straight" men.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 06, 2011, 02:47:33 PM
Not really. Many of them think transsexual women are gay men in denial. But they praise dq's landing "straight" men.

Well that is Transphobic. I guess they would get their undies in a real twist if someone said that they(The gay males) are just transsexuals in denial, so why would it be less phobic to state that transsexuals are gay males in denial?
Because it isn't.

And as for why transphobes can be more accepting of Drag Queens, that's simply because they don't have to take a Drag Queen seriously regarding the gender identity. But, if that same Drag Queen would say; "You know, I've decided that I am really transsexual", than several of those that have thought that the queen where "fabulous" would make a 180 degree turnaround.

Let's call it a draw and move on.