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London Riots

Started by Pica Pica, August 07, 2011, 02:38:12 PM

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Pica Pica

The thread necromancer strikes.....

Though more to say that it has been very cold recently, and all the children have been rocking up to school swaddled in big coats and scarves and an interesting game was observed amongst the year threes (7-8 year olds). They were tying scarves around their faces, running around the playground in groups and making threatening gestures at the air. When asked what they were doing, the answer was 'we're playing rioters'.

It takes a while, but the whole world trickles down to the playground eventually.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Anatta

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 10, 2011, 06:40:02 PM
The thread necromancer strikes.....

Though more to say that it has been very cold recently, and all the children have been rocking up to school swaddled in big coats and scarves and an interesting game was observed amongst the year threes (7-8 year olds). They were tying scarves around their faces, running around the playground in groups and making threatening gestures at the air. When asked what they were doing, the answer was 'we're playing rioters'.

It takes a while, but the whole world trickles down to the playground eventually.

Kia Ora Pica,

::) It's sad really...Little undiscriminating  brains, like sponges absorbing the wholesome along with the unwholesome...

Metta Zenda :) 
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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fionabell

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Pica Pica

Quote from: Zenda on December 10, 2011, 07:47:49 PM
Kia Ora Pica,

::) It's sad really...Little undiscriminating  brains, like sponges absorbing the wholesome along with the unwholesome...

Metta Zenda :)

I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, children are very discriminating and play is their way of processing and understanding something the way that discussion is for adults.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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V M

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 11, 2011, 02:07:24 AM
I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, children are very discriminating and play is their way of processing and understanding something the way that discussion is for adults.

True, children will act out whatever they observe, whether they feel good or bad about what happened is often a separate but relative issue
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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justmeinoz

Hopefully the way people came out for the clean up will have defused any likelihood of them thinking rioting was a good thing.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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fionabell

next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made. :)
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tekla

next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.

Missing the Third Reich much?  I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

V M

Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 02:56:56 PM
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.

Missing the Third Reich much?  I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.

ROFLMAO  :laugh:
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

tekla

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.  It is its natural manure."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

"Every generation needs a new revolution."



Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

fionabell

Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 03:14:09 PM
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.  It is its natural manure."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

"Every generation needs a new revolution."



Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

Wow you are a lunatic. You believe rioters were righteous? You're a knob mate. Those people are killers, rapists and social degenerates.
  •  

fionabell

Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 02:56:56 PM
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.

Missing the Third Reich much?  I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.

I miss people being civil, gentle and polite.
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tekla

Hey, I didn't come out on the side of making protesters flambe & before the trouble begins even.  I just pointed out some people who also would have shared that point of view.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

fionabell

Quote from: tekla on December 27, 2011, 10:09:52 PM
Hey, I didn't come out on the side of making protesters flambe & before the trouble begins even.  I just pointed out some people who also would have shared that point of view.

You accused me of missing the third Reich, presumably because I discussed the third Reich on another thread.

As if the Nazis would have flame throwered a mob anyway. They would have just beat them up like the USA police do today. You are just ignorant.


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Cindy

 :police:

A happy civilised thread to discuss our problems.

Ah why the poison?

Any chance of rational thought, acceptance and discussion?

Difficult concepts that they may be.


Mmm

Cindy



  •  

tekla

In the past year we've had London.  Athens.  New York (on Wall Street even).  Cairo.  Libya.  Moscow.  Albania.  Syria.  Spain.  ...and the beat goes on...

In all, 24 countries (big ones, 'stable' ones) had civil protests last year over domestic policies, many ended in riots.  (and when asking who causes a riot, ask which side came dressed for one)  On October 15, people in 950 different cities in different 82 countries had protests to support "Occupy" and the Spanish movement, many ended with arrests and police actions. 

People from all over, from all walks of life, from all kinds of backgrounds and political orientations seem to be doing the Howard Beale and going to the window and yelling: "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore."  That's how it starts.  It does not have to be focused, or specific, or based on universally supported notions/grievances.  All it has to do is be a vague but steady discontent.  Issues will form around the anger, and they are beginning...

There is increasing agreement that:

-the basic structure of the financial system is out of whack, and if not exactly in free-fall yet (though in some areas it seems to be), it's definitively reeling like a drunken sailor, it's out of it's own control, and seemingly out of human/governmental/financial and systematic control - all at the same time.

-governments are not exactly responding to problems, and in many cases (see: U.S. Congress for perhaps the best example) appear to be totally broken and non-functional.  Government spending is at an all time high (everywhere), yet the more money that is poured out, the more diminished the returns.

-corporations (and not just in the US, but world-wide) have far too much power (and far too much access to the power they don't directly have), far too much control over the money and resources, and zero responsibility beyond making more money, and as a result have become a distinct liability and a serious impediment to basic change, much less real progress.

-there is a basic inequality in the system larger than people are willing to accept, and seemingly larger than the system itself can handle.  It's a basic inequality that threatens the stability and sustainability of the most fundamental social structures (the ones that stand between us and anarchy, and it's not all that much), and, as a result, even people who don't know exactly why, feel frightened and threatened.  People who know why are simply scared ->-bleeped-<-less.  Because it's real bad, and it's real deep, and it's far past it's tipping point and is now seriously out of balance.  And nature, the very universe itself, does not seem to like out of balance things, they seem to prefer balance, but the only way sometimes to gain balance back is to let it spin out of control and expend its' momentum in that way.  And no one wants to see that.  I promise you.


Everywhere I look I see police looking not like police, but like para-military units deployed on domestic soil.  But you can't blame them too much, after all two of those countries had their governments fall as a result of those protests.  So the stakes are high.  Now Syria shot it's demonstrators (special bonus points for doing with attack aircraft, soon our cops will want F-16s too), so did lots of other places, you just didn't hear about it.  In Davis, California they only soaked them in pepper spray. 

That' the response of the government to something that is EXACTLY the kind of protest the 1st Amendment specifically protects.

That's bad too.  I mean its' pretty obvious that the people of the US have been looking to the government to do something, but not much happens.  We should be having an election based on these issues one would think, it being an election year and all.  But no.  One party pretty much has run out of ideas, "no" seems to be the only thing it can say, and it allowed it's Presidential Nomination Process degenerate into a moron rodeo where a bunch of people who had absolutely zero intention of ever being President of the US 'ran' kind of as a book tour, kind of as a reality show, and kind of as an audition of Fox News. 

It's pathetic really.  They are not even trying.  Pizza makers?  Washed up congressmen who resigned in disgrace?  A frothy one term senator who couldn't win re-election?  A couple of bat-->-bleeped-<- crazy congresspeople from weird districts?  Donald Trump?  You're ->-bleeped-<-ing ->-bleeped-<-ting me Donald Trump!?  But, but...he's nothing but a financial gangster.  He somehow went 'broke' running a casino (twice!) - how in the hell do you do that?  He's 'popular' (celebrity is a better word) because he's the closest thing we got to a Mafia Don going on anymore.  Oh yeah, and a guy determined to prove that by Texas political standards George Bush #43 is indeed a gifted intellectual.

So they are going to nominate Mitt.  The one person guaranteed to ensure a rebellion and boycott by the base (in USA who doesn't vote is just as important as who does - most people don't vote for the other party when they are mad at theirs, they sit it out) who regard him as a RINO (Republican In Name Only, cute eh?) and a Mormon to boot.  So...back of the pack, and more of the same.

And, not that we laugh (and we do) at the American political system, for lots of other political systems around the world seem to be pretty dysfunctional all on their own.  Matter of fact it's hard to find a single government anywhere that's really managing well.  The over-reaction to domestic protests is part and parcel of that.

And, as generally increasing standards of living and economic expansion cover up a lot of age-old, but deeply held, bad-ideas, a declining economy brings those things out in a much starker contrast.  Racism.  Class conflict.  Sexism.  Casual brutality.  Authoritarian levels of control.  And knowing that (as an American) that there are number of people who deeply and sincerely believe that we ought to tear into the Occupy crowds with bullets and bayonets, and knowing that (as a historian) such levels of violent suppression are not exactly unknown in other times and places, I have to believe that statements about use of extreme levels of violence are sincere and true.  And dangerous.  And inflammatory. 

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) For some people London's always a riot[in a fun entertainment kind of way]... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
  •  

fionabell

Quote from: tekla on December 28, 2011, 12:26:33 PM
In the past year we've had London.  Athens.  New York (on Wall Street even).  Cairo.  Libya.  Moscow.  Albania.  Syria.  Spain.  ...and the beat goes on...

In all, 24 countries (big ones, 'stable' ones) had civil protests last year over domestic policies, many ended in riots.  (and when asking who causes a riot, ask which side came dressed for one)  On October 15, people in 950 different cities in different 82 countries had protests to support "Occupy" and the Spanish movement, many ended with arrests and police actions. 

People from all over, from all walks of life, from all kinds of backgrounds and political orientations seem to be doing the Howard Beale and going to the window and yelling: "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore."  That's how it starts.  It does not have to be focused, or specific, or based on universally supported notions/grievances.  All it has to do is be a vague but steady discontent.  Issues will form around the anger, and they are beginning...

There is increasing agreement that:

-the basic structure of the financial system is out of whack, and if not exactly in free-fall yet (though in some areas it seems to be), it's definitively reeling like a drunken sailor, it's out of it's own control, and seemingly out of human/governmental/financial and systematic control - all at the same time.

-governments are not exactly responding to problems, and in many cases (see: U.S. Congress for perhaps the best example) appear to be totally broken and non-functional.  Government spending is at an all time high (everywhere), yet the more money that is poured out, the more diminished the returns.

-corporations (and not just in the US, but world-wide) have far too much power (and far too much access to the power they don't directly have), far too much control over the money and resources, and zero responsibility beyond making more money, and as a result have become a distinct liability and a serious impediment to basic change, much less real progress.

-there is a basic inequality in the system larger than people are willing to accept, and seemingly larger than the system itself can handle.  It's a basic inequality that threatens the stability and sustainability of the most fundamental social structures (the ones that stand between us and anarchy, and it's not all that much), and, as a result, even people who don't know exactly why, feel frightened and threatened.  People who know why are simply scared ->-bleeped-<-less.  Because it's real bad, and it's real deep, and it's far past it's tipping point and is now seriously out of balance.  And nature, the very universe itself, does not seem to like out of balance things, they seem to prefer balance, but the only way sometimes to gain balance back is to let it spin out of control and expend its' momentum in that way.  And no one wants to see that.  I promise you.


Everywhere I look I see police looking not like police, but like para-military units deployed on domestic soil.  But you can't blame them too much, after all two of those countries had their governments fall as a result of those protests.  So the stakes are high.  Now Syria shot it's demonstrators (special bonus points for doing with attack aircraft, soon our cops will want F-16s too), so did lots of other places, you just didn't hear about it.  In Davis, California they only soaked them in pepper spray. 

That' the response of the government to something that is EXACTLY the kind of protest the 1st Amendment specifically protects.

That's bad too.  I mean its' pretty obvious that the people of the US have been looking to the government to do something, but not much happens.  We should be having an election based on these issues one would think, it being an election year and all.  But no.  One party pretty much has run out of ideas, "no" seems to be the only thing it can say, and it allowed it's Presidential Nomination Process degenerate into a moron rodeo where a bunch of people who had absolutely zero intention of ever being President of the US 'ran' kind of as a book tour, kind of as a reality show, and kind of as an audition of Fox News. 

It's pathetic really.  They are not even trying.  Pizza makers?  Washed up congressmen who resigned in disgrace?  A frothy one term senator who couldn't win re-election?  A couple of bat-->-bleeped-<- crazy congresspeople from weird districts?  Donald Trump?  You're ->-bleeped-<-ing ->-bleeped-<-ting me Donald Trump!?  But, but...he's nothing but a financial gangster.  He somehow went 'broke' running a casino (twice!) - how in the hell do you do that?  He's 'popular' (celebrity is a better word) because he's the closest thing we got to a Mafia Don going on anymore.  Oh yeah, and a guy determined to prove that by Texas political standards George Bush #43 is indeed a gifted intellectual.

So they are going to nominate Mitt.  The one person guaranteed to ensure a rebellion and boycott by the base (in USA who doesn't vote is just as important as who does - most people don't vote for the other party when they are mad at theirs, they sit it out) who regard him as a RINO (Republican In Name Only, cute eh?) and a Mormon to boot.  So...back of the pack, and more of the same.

And, not that we laugh (and we do) at the American political system, for lots of other political systems around the world seem to be pretty dysfunctional all on their own.  Matter of fact it's hard to find a single government anywhere that's really managing well.  The over-reaction to domestic protests is part and parcel of that.

And, as generally increasing standards of living and economic expansion cover up a lot of age-old, but deeply held, bad-ideas, a declining economy brings those things out in a much starker contrast.  Racism.  Class conflict.  Sexism.  Casual brutality.  Authoritarian levels of control.  And knowing that (as an American) that there are number of people who deeply and sincerely believe that we ought to tear into the Occupy crowds with bullets and bayonets, and knowing that (as a historian) such levels of violent suppression are not exactly unknown in other times and places, I have to believe that statements about use of extreme levels of violence are sincere and true.  And dangerous.  And inflammatory.

The London riots were not part of the 1% protests. To suggest such a thing is deceitful.
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