I had an interesting conversation with my oldest friend tonight about gender identity. She was wonderful to me, and I am going to visit her this holiday season. We talked about my gender identity versus hers, and discussed the idea of a binary gender spectrum versus a fluid one. I found that while I was able to explain how I felt about my identity as a man, I lacked the words to explain completely how I felt. I feel male, so I am. My brain is male, I identify as male, I cannot see myself as female, etc.

So, what do the other guys and ladies, (everyone is welcome to comment) think it means to be male and female. In no way am I trying to define set ideas about gender. I am not a wordsmith, so I find it difficult to explain in a simple manner.

Quote from: Ayden on December 11, 2011, 04:43:33 AM
So, what do the other guys and ladies, (everyone is welcome to comment) think it means to be male and female.

-Raises one eyebrow- You fell on the strict binary as opposed to the fluid, I take it 

I keep going back to the images of male and female being two huge, cities - full of as many entertainments and twisty alleys and wonder and grot as all huge cities are, and inbetween them, the enchanted forest.

I spent many years studying men and wondering why they behaved and thought they way they did and why I wasn't like them.

Quote from: Ayden on December 11, 2011, 04:43:33 AMI found that while I was able to explain how I felt about my identity as a man, I lacked the words to explain completely how I felt. I feel male, so I am. My brain is male, I identify as male, I cannot see myself as female, etc.

So, what do the other guys and ladies, (everyone is welcome to comment) think it means to be male and female.

Even those of us who aren't guys or ladies?

I think you summed it up pretty well there. That's the limit of my understanding, at least. That all it really takes is feeling male or female, and no other traits have much, if anything, to do with it. I've never felt like either, so I doubt I'd be able to understand either side.

Yikes. I just re-read this and realized what a jerk I was! I am SO SORRY. This is why I am not allowed to type anything after several drinks. To everyone - I did not mean to offend. 

What I was trying to ask was this: what does gender even really mean? Are there set rules? I was able to explain how I felt, but it was more of a "I feel this way, so I am" type of explaination. I was just wondering how everyone else 'round these parts would explain gender and all of the many identities that are included under the term gender.

Once again, I am so sorry for being an insensitive bastard.

I'm wondering this as well. Over in the MTF section there is a thread called "What is a transexual woman?". I was wondering, what makes someone male or female or even a trans male or female or andro or whatever.

My therapist asked me once, "What does it mean to you to "be a man""?

I couldn't really answer him. I went to a couple boards I was on, and couldn't get a good answer there, either.

Strength? Leadership? Honesty? Willing to stand for what is right? Those are things I'd expect from a woman, as well...

But, if a male yields to another male (without legal reason, ie, to a commander in the .mil) he's seen as "weak" or "like a woman." A man can be spineless--culturally, this is more severe than if a woman is seen as spineless, because he loses the respect of other men (I don't know how women see another woman who is spineless)

Women are seen as more nurturing; men are seen as more distant and "cold".

Again, those are cultural definitions.

I know testosterone fuels aggression--so it could be argued that one element of "manhood" is violence, and the (self- ) control of it. If their propensity to violence is used for good (defending the weaker (women, children, etc) that is a good thing, if they use it to harm others for their own gain it's bad. This violent tendency is helped by the fact that men have, in general, a stronger physique than women.

I don't know, just random thoughts on the subject.

Quote from: Darrin on December 11, 2011, 04:22:34 PM
I'm wondering this as well. Over in the MTF section there is a thread called "What is a transsexual woman?". I was wondering, what makes someone male or female or even a trans male or female or andro or whatever.

Hi,

I have been actively posting in the other thread, and my postion is that a transsexual woman is a female who was misgender at birth, forced to act as the opposite gender, and that at some point corrected that heinous injustice.

So, what is a female versus a male, well is all in your head. There is ample evidence that the brains of males and females have different structures, process information differently, and at a holistic level perceives itself as male, female, in-between, or none.

It's all about societal conditioning. 

It's just how your brain is wired. It's a fact men and women have different brains. It doesn't make sense to me that the differences are just made from society. If it was, then why are gender roles pretty similar in every culture? I think the males and females of all species have different inborn traits and instincts.

It is what it is. I am a cockless wonder. I can't prove my manhood, but the fact that I don't feel the need to has to count for something.

Despite the fact that I really should have not have started this thread while drinking, I have enjoyed reading responses. Usually, I try not to worry too much about what it means for me to be male rather than female. That's just the way I am.

On a side note, don't drink (a lot) and post. You may end up feeling like an ass.

I can't drink and post without mentioning that I'm drunk. Makes me feel like a super-ass.

At least you give everyone a heads up!

I am now no longer allowed to 1.) text drunk/while drinking, 2.) post drunk/while drinking, 3.) Call anyone while drunk/drinking. 

When my therapist asked me that question --- I boiled it down to a sense of belonging.  That when I am around females I felt different out of place and sometimes like they are speaking a different language.  However, when I am around men I feel like I understand them and they understand me.  I feel comfortable acting myself.  I also feel like in the world I feel most comfortable when I am precieved or seen as male.  That my body must appear right.  Also, that I want to have a sense of my body being right.  That i feel like I am walking around in a costume --- once I am able to cut my tumors off that at least the top half of me won't feel like a costume and I will hopefully feel more at peace with myself

I'll suggest that the more useful question is "are you a good person?"  If you are, the rest doesn't matter much. 

That's something of the vein of advice given to me as I was worrying about being a good father.  I didn't have any examples to follow myself.  Both grandfathers had died before I was born.  And my father was ... not a good father. 

As to the men vs. women and male vs. female gendering ....  It may seem like this is a trivial example, but truly it is serious (or at least I am) and relevant (I hope): Consider handedness.  In casual speech it is treated as a binary thing.  Either you are left handed, or you are right handed, end of story.  The reality is a continuum.  Most people happen to be more or less close to one end or the other, which is why they think that it is binary.  But some people aren't at the ends of the continuum.  Although I'll say I'm left-handed, I don't do everything left-handed.  There are major activities (hammering, writing, and throwing; that these are 'major' is a matter of research) for handedness, and I don't do them all left-handed (I throw right).  Among 'minor' activities, I do some left, some right.  Somewhat more left-handed than right-handed.  So I'll say I'm left-handed and let people shut up about it, even though that isn't really an accurate label for me.  Those people who need a label can have that one.  Regardless of the label, I'm me.

I think that gender is a lot like that.  Society pretends that there are binary opposites, but the reality is a continuum.  You are who you are.  Just be a good one.

More problematic is when what people who look at you an think you are doesn't match who you are, indeed is its opposite.  No easy solution there.  But I'll hope (for my trans-son's sake) that if you continue being a good person, that whether it's being a good 'man' or good 'woman' will take second place.

For me...being male is something I have always been. I had to TRY to seem female when I was younger and everyone called me out on it. At first, people called me a lesbian and then in high school, a man. Because...although physically I passed as a female...nothing else about me did. Although a lot of hobbies and traits about me would be considered more feminine than masculine, they all fit together in a boyish package that is definitely stamped male. So basically...what makes me male is my mind, my actions. Biology has nothing to do with it.

Gender is much like a glob of clay sculpted into something to represent yourself. Most people just tend to have pink or blue clay and molded into a somewhat similar fashion but that doesn't mean your chunk of clay will look much like those. I like to think that mine is made up of awesome glittery colorful material in shaped into an odd form.

I like that analogy wes! My clay is definitely green and purple, marbleized of the two colors. Might give people a jump but as one of my friends said, "And this is Dylan, he's our Dylan no other way to describe"