Quote from: fionabell on December 16, 2011, 07:09:55 PM
What I'm saying is, betray people who depend on you if you want but I won't believe you that you had no choice and neither will the mainstream.

I guess it's a good thing I don't have to adhere to you or the "mainstream" then.

I find your comments here quite offensive, belittling even, to me and I'm sure other peoples transitions, to be honest. There's voicing your opinion and then there's forcing your opinion.

Well we all need to dream I suppose. I can't wake you up anymore than i can wake up the Nazi forums from their dreams.

I suppose i'll just have to start dreaming to

I'm curious, if you knew you wouldn't "pass," would you still transition anyway?
I don't and I did.
It turned out better than I thought possible, but at the time of transition, I fully expected to get nothing but rejection and ridicule.
You can see my picture and I'm 5'10 (shrunk from 6')  I doubt that I pass often.  Other than the occasional lout though, people treat me as female and I seem to have a good degree of acceptance by cis-women.
That is enough, as much as I could hope for and better than I expected.

I was on the brink of suicide though at age 53. 
I thought that I might as well transition and see how it went - if it was unbearable, I could always kill myself next week instead.

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on December 16, 2011, 09:22:52 PM
I guess it's a good thing I don't have to adhere to you or the "mainstream" then.

Don't act self righteous honey. It's you and everyone else who's trying to make me adhere to you not the other way around. I'm not going to be intimidated by your xenophobic bullying.

Xenophobic bullying? I merely put forth a different view of transition from my experiences to your own and you pretty much say "Yeah your wrong because I say so and everyone else agrees with me", never once did I say you or your believes were wrong only they did not correlate with my own. 

There's no need to get defensive.

transition still allows you to express yourself the way you want to in terms of gender. even if you don't pass, you would still be able to be happier. i think anyone can pass as long as they are willing to work for it. some have it easier than others, but for some, passing is a part of the transition.

Quote from: Steffi on December 16, 2011, 09:26:28 PM
I'm curious, if you knew you wouldn't "pass," would you still transition anyway?
I don't and I did.
It turned out better than I thought possible, but at the time of transition, I fully expected to get nothing but rejection and ridicule.
You can see my picture and I'm 5'10 (shrunk from 6')  I doubt that I pass often.  Other than the occasional lout though, people treat me as female and I seem to have a good degree of acceptance by cis-women.
That is enough, as much as I could hope for and better than I expected.

I was on the brink of suicide though at age 53. 
I thought that I might as well transition and see how it went - if it was unbearable, I could always kill myself next week instead.

you're saying you don't pass? from looking at your picture, i see a woman. i don't know where you don't pass unless it's just your own perception of yourself? you said you doubt that you pass, which doesn't mean an absolute.

For me, I dont think I would choose M2T if I couldnt be M2F. I think I would probably just take T blockers and a low dose of e and not transition but it's hard to know "what ifs" without actually going down a path and living with those choices. I think I can pass someday but I will definately need to give HRT for another year or two. I won't go FT unless I can pass or can't pass as a guy anymore.

Kia Ora,

I have a friend whose quite adamant when it comes to the issue of passing/blending in, she said no way would she have considered transitioning if she felt she could not pass...

As for myself yes I feel I would have, because at the time it was all about releasing the pressure value at all cost, before I exploded...But as luck would have it, it was society who released the valve for me... I'm fortunate in that I do blend in...

For many of us who blend in it was the luck of the draw when Mother Nature was dealing out the gene cards, for some others it's thanks to the magic dollar and the steady hand of the plastic surgeon...

My advice for those who feel they might never blend in, NEVER say NEVER, there are many different levels of perceptions in the cisgender world ...

Metta Zenda


   

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on December 16, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
Xenophobic bullying? I merely put forth a different view of transition from my experiences to your own and you pretty much say "Yeah your wrong because I say so and everyone else agrees with me", never once did I say you or your believes were wrong only they did not correlate with my own. 

There's no need to get defensive.

Everyone agrees with me?

I can't see anyone agreeing with me on this thread.

I tried to add a shred of morality to the discussion and everyone jumped on me. I'm quite aware of the need to transition. Everyone has basically said that they need to transition more than me. This is what has upset me. Because i have greater morals I'm swept aside as someone who is less trans.

You can say what you like but in life we aren't always entitled to do whatever the hell we want. It's not all about me me me. Our Gender identity issues do not always take precedence over the needs of our loved ones.

what are greater morals? morals are different for everyone. anyway, how is transitioning going to damage family depending on you? they can't still depend on you in the other gender?

from my experience, people need to learn how to depend on themselves. not someone/something else. that is everyones responsibility.

Quote from: fionabell on December 16, 2011, 10:56:24 PM
Everyone agrees with me?

I can't see anyone agreeing with me on this thread.

I tried to add a shred of morality to the discussion and everyone jumped on me. I'm quite aware of the need to transition. Everyone has basically said that they need to transition more than me. This is what has upset me. Because i have greater morals I'm swept aside as someone who is less trans.

You can say what you like but in life we aren't always entitled to do whatever the hell we want. It's not all about me me me. Our Gender identity issues do not always take precedence over the needs of our loved ones.

Hardly everyone is disagreeing, me and two others disagreed with your outlook towards transition, plus that comment was directed at your notion that the mainstream won't accept us as feel female inside and pass off anything that disagrees as "fake science"

I personally never said it was greater then yours but just that the way I experienced GID it was something I could not brush aside for loved ones as I don't live so that my loved ones can be "proud" of me or something. And I found it upsetting and belittling for you to imply that my transition is nothing more than a fickle fantasy of a feminine guy, whereas to me it's something that I've known innate from birth that no matter how corny this sounds; I was female and shouldn't be forced to live as a guy because people I know don't like it. And also what FullMoon19 said, why should me being a girl have to effect my family? Can they not be happy with a daughter or is that a lower title than having a son?

Secondly, "greater morals"? And you say I was on a high horse, what makes your "morals" greater than anyone else's? We all have morals, just because they don't align with yours doesn't make them any lesser. So just as you assumed a few people in here were thinking their transition was above yours and you go and do the exact same thing with your "morals", tab bit hypocritical.

And that is your view of the world, not everyone else's and as someone who seems to live depending on other perceptions of other people you should know that. Sure I might not be "entitled" to everything in the world that I want, but the one thing I should be entitled to is the ability to feel comfortable in my skin not having to fill some pseudo-male role for the love of others. And your right it's not always "me me me" but for something like this and a lot of other things it is.

HELL NO.


But people don't "pass" by one standard or another. You're still gonna retain the gender which you were *born* as. It's not rocket science, you can't turn a male into a female through even the best science. You're still gonna have something that says male...whether it be the birth certificate, voice, shoulders, hands, personality, face, penis, or XY chromosomes. Therefore one should self accept themselves and dgaf... I'm petite and some people still know. OMG, it's the end of the world when they tell me they "knew"...OMFG, it so isn't.

I initially wanted to just become a DQ, but was encouraged to go further because people(blind people) thought I was a girl with short hair while as a boy. I still don't see it, but I am glad I did. Sure beats being a gay slut and my life improved significantly. I make a pretty girl according to some and it's fun!!!

But if I had more of a lifestyle...I'd simply stay a gay boy and live this life on weekends. But my life rocks as whatever the hell  I am calling myself this week!

    @ all the fighting in this thread, ugh.


  I probably wouldn't transition if i couldn't pass unless modern science came up with some kind of gene manipulation or something crazy to change my body.   

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 17, 2011, 03:13:58 AM

    @ all the fighting in this thread, ugh.


  I probably wouldn't transition if i couldn't pass unless modern science came up with some kind of gene manipulation or something crazy to change my body.   

I could become a sharkosexual and spend my life in the sea! I'M COMING FOR YOU SEBASTIAN!

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on December 17, 2011, 03:00:12 AM
Hardly everyone is disagreeing, me and two others disagreed with your outlook towards transition, plus that comment was directed at your notion that the mainstream won't accept us that feel female inside and pass off anything that disagrees as "fake science"

I personally never said it was greater then yours but just that the way I experienced GID it was something I could not brush aside for loved ones as I don't live so that my loved ones can be "proud" of me or something. And I found it upsetting and belittling for you to imply that my transition is nothing more than a fickle fantasy of a feminine guy, whereas to me it's something that I've known innate from birth that no matter how corny this sounds; I was female and shouldn't be forced to live as a guy because people I know don't like it.

Well, I also disagree with Fiona's comments; they were somewhat absurd and not very considerate... But I'd rather avoid confrontation. We have too much drama here already.

B-b-b-but I haven't had a good Internet debate in years. ;_;

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 03:16:15 AM
I could become a sharkosexual and spend my life in the sea! I'M COMING FOR YOU SEBASTIAN!

Damn you! Now I'll have "Under the Sea" in my head for the rest of today!

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on December 17, 2011, 03:28:55 AM
B-b-b-but I haven't had a good Internet debate in years. ;_;
Damn you! Now I'll have "Under the Sea" in my head for the rest of today!

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on December 17, 2011, 03:28:55 AM
B-b-b-but I haven't had a good Internet debate in years. ;_;

~I will debate you. What do you want to debate?

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 17, 2011, 03:36:02 AM
~I will debate you. What do you want to debate?

Republicans vs giant astronaut mantisheads.