As I stumble around, trying to figure out my future, this has been a question I've had to struggle with. I want to pass, that's for sure. I worry about whether the reactions of others, if I don't pass, will end up being worse than what I feel without transitioning.

I think, at its core, it's more about being honest with myself and the world. So...it might take me longer to start transitioning, if I knew I couldn't pass, but I think I would still do it. Especially since my wife is supportive. And especially because I think, when starting, there'll be the fear that I won't pass that I have to work through before I can take those first steps.

Who knows? I'm pre-transition anyway, so I'm probably not the best to answer the question.

I will try to explain Fiona, I think you are feeling a bit trapped in the corner now.
There is no need for, but maybe, when you read this, you will reconsider your point of view about the subject.
There are people on this board who are prepared to lose everything they have in life, and I mean everything, just to become who they really are.
When one doesn't have an identity, it's like walking on quicksand.
They will make great offers, with a lot of sorrow and pain, but they will continue, because there is no choice, sometimes they think they will be better off dead.
Sometimes social isolated, no family or friends who wants to see them.
So, if someone is in that position and another says, hey you're in a luxury position, I think there is a reason for debate.
I hope you will think about that, not everybody can say they have a smooth transition, some people are living in hell.
So please, have some sympathy.
I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but some words you used are painfull for a lot of people.

Hi,

Im 64,   a woman who does  not pass in the way is talked  about on forums & im on over 20 trans & I S,  so i get to hear it all from many 1000's of people so i know what is alluded to.

wether dressers or trans, some thing im nether. tho i am a I S. yet my features are very masculine , so no i dont belive i would pass or can..& certinly not at my age,  What has held myself to gether with out looseing the plot is being I S .

Thats from a woman.

one who does not have a womb...or whats needed to have babys ...so there you have it,

Yet im accepted by many 1000's of people talked to 100 's been seen by over 3 Millon people on the net & in the Papers & interviewed . so i cant  be that bad as to hide my face from public view,

Yes a member of many womens & mixed groups & world wide, women only forums so there you have it & my avatar is how im seen most of the time , i do change my clothes of cause.

...noeleena, Loch-head,

Waimate,

New Zealand.

That is true - I never felt it was the right time to transition even though I knew I was a woman in early 20s before age would masculinize me further, and now I am 30 and transitioning, passing is a lot less big deal to me now heh

I think I can safely say that anyone who genuinely answers "yes" (sorry! meant "no")  to this question is not truly transsexual and should not undergo HRT. I'm pretty sure practically all therapists and physicians would agree that. Still, it is possible to "transition", meaning live presenting yourself in public as a different gender than before, without making physical changes to your body. I suppose in that case, it would be just you might want to take into consideration how people perceive you.

I personally am more concerned about feeling feminine than giving others the impression that I am. In public, though, I do generally try to look and come across as normally feminine as possible, if for no other reason than for the comfort of others. Gender incongurence makes some people uncomfortable, so I figure it's best to look as normal as possible.

Lyric ~

Quote from: Lyric on December 17, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
I think I can safely say that anyone who genuinely answers "yes" to this question is not truly transsexual and should not undergo HRT. I'm pretty sure practically all therapists and physicians would agree that. Still, it is possible to "transition", meaning live presenting yourself in public as a different gender than before, without making physical changes to your body. I suppose in that case, it would be just you might want to take into consideration how people perceive you.

I personally am more concerned about feeling feminine than giving others the impression that I am. In public, though, I do generally try to look and come across as normally feminine as possible, if for no other reason than for the comfort of others. Gender incongurence makes some people uncomfortable, so I figure it's best to look as normal as possible.

Lyric ~

I am sorry but I have to disagree - being transsexual does not necessarily mean you have to have a deep hatred of your penis or male image.

And HRT is necessary to help you pass better especially if you are in your 30s.

And feeling and looking feminine are not mutually exclusive categories. They go hand-in-hand.... I can feel feminine in a cami and jeans, but I feel way more feminine in a sexy halter dress and open toed heels because I look so feminine heh

Very sorry for the wording error. I should  have rechecked the phrasing of title first. I meant that a true TS would be more concerned with living as the target gender than with how other perceive her/him.

In the beginning I would have said no and chosen to kill myself rather then go on living as a man, and although I still feel that way, I understand that 90% of us with hormones do eventually pass most of the time.please don't challenge my stats as there is no real data one way or another, just my experience from two years in the trans community. I still feel like I am sitting on a time bomb and if I ever loose hope that I will get SRS one day, I will end it it.

Huggs

Emily

Quote from: fionabell on December 16, 2011, 07:14:42 PM
It's always me me me with us westerners these days isn't it?

If my transition wans't about me I don't know who else it would be about.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 03:37:41 AM
Republicans vs giant astronaut mantisheads.

I for one welcome our new mantishead overlords.

Quote from: Dahlia on December 16, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
I was totally unpassable as a 'male' pre transition......and it caused  a lot social problems not to mention people pointing at me,  screaming and cursing and calling me names etcetc.

After years and years of being excluded, in the gayworld too,  verbal abuse etcetc I went into a serious depresson.

I know what it is to be 'unpassable' and no, I couldn't bear it.

Probably I would have turned into a total recluse, being unpassable as a MTF in the end probably killing myself.

I feel your pain sister, do not give up !

Have you consider a DYS orchiotomy, I have.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 17, 2011, 03:35:16 PM
Have you consider a DYS orchiotomy, I have.

All it got me was a long stay in a hospital and a pysch evaluation. 

Quote from: annette on December 17, 2011, 05:13:42 AM
I will try to explain Fiona, I think you are feeling a bit trapped in the corner now.
There is no need for, but maybe, when you read this, you will reconsider your point of view about the subject.
There are people on this board who are prepared to lose everything they have in life, and I mean everything, just to become who they really are.
When one doesn't have an identity, it's like walking on quicksand.
They will make great offers, with a lot of sorrow and pain, but they will continue, because there is no choice, sometimes they think they will be better off dead.
Sometimes social isolated, no family or friends who wants to see them.
So, if someone is in that position and another says, hey you're in a luxury position, I think there is a reason for debate.
I hope you will think about that, not everybody can say they have a smooth transition, some people are living in hell.
So please, have some sympathy.
I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but some words you used are painfull for a lot of people.

once again, like everyone else you are attacking me by saying my struggle is less than others and that becoming a tans is less important to me than it is to others. I've been shunned and isolated and cut my losses too.I have every bit as much sorrow and pain as anyone else on this site.

Stop condescending to me. I find everyone accusing me of not being trans just because I'm not subscribing to the mob mentality here very personally insulting. How would you like it if I accused you of being less trans than others here?

I'm not the unsympathetic one. Unsympathetic is thinking the world revolves around you and transitioning even if it destroys your wife and children's lives.

Should a parent who has a deep seated desire to take drugs and go out every night have a moral right to?

Why not ? They are depressed. Their life is hell. The day to day grind is like sinking in quicksand. They have sorrow and pain and their extended family members just don't understand their need for cocaine and hookers.

Sure spending money on cocaine and hookers takes food off the childrens table and disallows them a good education.

But it's me me me i feel so depressed without cocaine and hookers every night.

Morals aren't like fine cheeses at a deli where you can pick and choose which ones suit you or not. You are either doing people over or standing by them.Being a parent is about sacrifice. All parents are living on lost dreams and sinking quicksand. That's the nature of the trade off. Do you think a mother who's boobs and body have been compromised by childbirth etc doesn't feel like a hot 20 year old girl trapped in the body of an aging mother?

If anyone is offended by this understand I'm not intentionally insulting anyone and that I feel insulted because everyone is saying that I need to be trans less than they do.

QuoteI'm curious, if you knew you wouldn't "pass," would you still transition anyway?

Yes, on a lesser level.  I would probably stick with appearing androgynous; better than appearing male.

Every time a thread like this occurs another lost kitten's mewing never falls on the ears of her mother.

That's how sad the infighting makes me.

The six thousand things we could say or prove to one another in this regard are pointless if said in a fashion to harm. I apologize, Fiona, I did absolutely bristle at your point of view. I still do. Not because its a harmful truth, though, but because you're preaching morality with a fervor. Ethical beliefs are not universal across the broad spectrum of humanity.

Quote from: fionabell on December 18, 2011, 01:45:29 AM
once again, like everyone else you are attacking me by saying my struggle is less than others and that becoming a tans is less important to me than it is to others. I've been shunned and isolated and cut my losses too.I have every bit as much sorrow and pain as anyone else on this site.

Stop condescending to me. I find everyone accusing me of not being trans just because I'm not subscribing to the mob mentality here very personally insulting. How would you like it if I accused you of being less trans than others here?

I'm not the unsympathetic one. Unsympathetic is thinking the world revolves around you and transitioning even if it destroys your wife and children's lives.

Should a parent who has a deep seated desire to take drugs and go out every night have a moral right to?

Why not ? They are depressed. Their life is hell. The day to day grind is like sinking in quicksand. They have sorrow and pain and their extended family members just don't understand their need for cocaine and hookers.

Sure spending money on cocaine and hookers takes food off the childrens table and disallows them a good education.

But it's me me me i feel so depressed without cocaine and hookers every night.

Morals aren't like fine cheeses at a deli where you can pick and choose which ones suit you or not. You are either doing people over or standing by them.Being a parent is about sacrifice. All parents are living on lost dreams and sinking quicksand. That's the nature of the trade off. Do you think a mother who's boobs and body have been compromised by childbirth etc doesn't feel like a hot 20 year old girl trapped in the body of an aging mother?

If anyone is offended by this understand I'm not intentionally insulting anyone and that I feel insulted because everyone is saying that I need to be trans less than they do.

No one has said that your transition struggles are less than their own please stop perceiving replies as this, we just don't agree with your "greater morals" on it and in some people found things you've said to be belittling of their own transition as well. No one has said you're not trans, no one has personally attacked you, people have just made posts disagree with your views and you take personal offense from them because they don't agree with you.

If a trans person parent has a wife and a child then I guess that's their choice to live as their gender or not and consider the consequences for themselves and others, being trans is not going to ruin the lives of their family. There are plenty times it works out, and a lot of the times is doesn't but they can't go beating themselves up over wanting a little personally happiness, and unlike a drug addiction, being trans will not take food off the table and or stop their childrens education. Just like it's not always me me me it's also not always them them them. Just as me being trans is not going to ruin my mother or my sisters lives, my mum will just have a daughter and sisters a sister. If someone is an only child is it right that they should live a life in a body that causes them dysphoria and to feel down right terrible nearly all the time because their parents want grandchildren?

The thing is, you can pick and choose morals, morals are a personal thing and not a set of stone rules. And in many cases they aren't so black and white like most things in the world there are exceptions.

But please don't think I think of you as "less trans", I just think differently than you and I personally think it's great that we can discuss and debate these things, hopefully in a civil manner.

Quote from: fionabell on December 18, 2011, 01:45:29 AM


I'm not the unsympathetic one. Unsympathetic is thinking the world revolves around you and transitioning even if it destroys your wife and children's lives.

I think transsexualism is partially an act of narcissism. For the narcissist expects the world to bend to her will and think everything +/- involves her. At the end of the day, I know what I am.

There is already enough navel gazin in the gay community. But at the end of the day, I still have another man to take care of and love...

But hey, my boyfriend has set a timebomb off in his family to come be with his ->-bleeped-<- girlfriend... He expects me to give up MY LIFE to be with him and be his captive.

Unfortunately, my Mom hasn't lost a son or gained a daughter...Her effeminate gay son is merely changing his/her body.

I have read my post again and again, and I can't find a word what is condescending or attackking you Fiona.
About moral, why should responsibility stop when one is going into transition?
One can go into transition and still be responsible for the children, or other obligations.
Sorry, you feel attacked, there is no reason for it.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with having moral, we can agree to that.

Mahsa if we saw you walking down the street, into a hetero bar, getting a drink and sitting at a table woudl we say 'thats an effeminate gay guy?'  I think not.

Effem gays are very distinct as are non=passing TGs but no-one would confuse the two.

Most effem person I've seen recently was one of guys at LGBT conference I used to go to but there was nothing feminine about him yet he ran across the room like a prima ballerina.