Hi everyone,

I'm having problems with pronouns.

I was at my friend's house. I was called SIR and I was very upset,

So I came home, friend's mother following behind me to make sure I'm okay. After my friend's parents talked to my parents, I was constantly nagged and being told I need medicine.

Afterwards, I was harshly judged by dad for wearing a bow in my hair.

I went upstairs to try on new sneakers. I was harshly told by my mom not to walk like I'm on a catwalk and to "quit faking it". She said "It's not in you" like she denied my very own female soul.

I was told by my parents YOU HAVE A PENIS. YOU'RE A MAN BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PENIS.

(regardless of who I am on the inside.)

I ask my dad if I'm a man or a woman. He says A MAN in a harsh voice.

Then I ask him am I as manly as .... a male professional athlete?

He says YES!!!!!

I got angry.

Then after the fight as I calmed down, I noticed.....

MY VOICE BOX area feels tight and my voice DEEPENED. Hopefully only temporarily.

My facial bones hurt and any growing facial hair itches me right now.

I'm living in hell. I tell my parents I love them and they tell me they don't love me even though they do and I do them. They tell me I'm not a girl and they CONSTANTLY use the wrong pronouns with me.

Then I ask if I'm a transsexual and my parents say NO.

They tell me I can be a girl or whatever and then they say it's stupid and I need to see a psych and get medication.

Now I know I'm 23 and I don't have a job, which is very strange. I am VERY interested in looking for a job, especially at my local cosmetics store.

I need help. I know I do, so maybe I need to think things over.

I'm going to say some stuff you probably don't want to hear.

Identity is something that people set in stone in general. If you're known to be unreliable, but you all of a sudden determine that you're going to show everybody you're reliable, it's not just a matter of telling everybody that you're reliable. Same with gender identity. For the most part, people need to be eased into a comfort zone when dealing with very dramatic change. You're willing to tell people what you are, that's the biggest advantage you have because it means you aren't ashamed to be female. Use that with confidence. With confidence and determination in yourself, you mold who you are instead of letting others do it for you.

Don't just tell people you're a girl, show them. However, being a girl isn't just wearing clothes or bows etc. For example: at work, I say and do things pretty girlish, and people have expected me to react to anything like a girl, and like the same things females would typically be interested in. I've told nobody I'm trans, yet I have told them blood tests show my hormones to resemble that of an ovulating female. You know what response I got? "I'm not surprised", and "Oh, that makes sense". I say and do things pretty girlish, and people have expected me to react to anything like a girl, and like the same things females would typically be interested in. I've been handed Avon magazines, asked to make bows for the company christmas party, and pretty much excluded from physical labor just due to my additude. This took very little time in the scope of things.. a matter of months.

Subtlety and slow change is so much easier to deal with than if you were to demand a dramatic, all of a sudden change. You're not gonna have much luck telling people to call you by female pronouns just because you ask them to, and just because you wear a bow in  your hair. Thought process, emotional response, and what you participate in are a whole lot more of an argument towards your gender identity than just your word and your clothing choice. When you stomp your feet and yell about something people see as complete nonsense, they're going to look at you like you're having an emotional meltdown and that you need serious psychological help. Just take a few months to adjust them, I promise you'll make progress!

EDIT: Keep in mind, you're asking people that love you to death to see you as something completely different from what they know you as. They may be afraid that they won't enjoy the "new you" as much as who they know you as!

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 18, 2011, 11:12:23 PM
I'm going to say some stuff you probably don't want to hear.

Identity is something that people set in stone in general. If you're known to be unreliable, but you all of a sudden determine that you're going to show everybody you're reliable, it's not just a matter of telling everybody that you're reliable. Same with gender identity. For the most part, people need to be eased into a comfort zone when dealing with very dramatic change. You're willing to tell people what you are, that's the biggest advantage you have because it means you aren't ashamed to be female. Use that with confidence. With confidence and determination in yourself, you mold who you are instead of letting others do it for you.

Don't just tell people you're a girl, show them. However, being a girl isn't just wearing clothes or bows etc. For example: at work, I say and do things pretty girlish, and people have expected me to react to anything like a girl, and like the same things females would typically be interested in. I've told nobody I'm trans, yet I have told them blood tests show my hormones to resemble that of an ovulating female. You know what response I got? "I'm not surprised", and "Oh, that makes sense". I say and do things pretty girlish, and people have expected me to react to anything like a girl, and like the same things females would typically be interested in. I've been handed Avon magazines, asked to make bows for the company christmas party, and pretty much excluded from physical labor just due to my additude. This took very little time in the scope of things.. a matter of months.

Subtlety and slow change is so much easier to deal with than if you were to demand a dramatic, all of a sudden change. You're not gonna have much luck telling people to call you by female pronouns just because you ask them to, and just because you wear a bow in  your hair. Thought process, emotional response, and what you participate in are a whole lot more of an argument towards your gender identity than just your word and your clothing choice. When you stomp your feet and yell about something people see as complete nonsense, they're going to look at you like you're having an emotional meltdown and that you need serious psychological help. Just take a few months to adjust them, I promise you'll make progress!

EDIT: Keep in mind, you're asking people that love you to death to see you as something completely different from what they know you as. They may be afraid that they won't enjoy the "new you" as much as who they know you as!

Very well said.

I also mentioned it in another thread to this same person, [and I'll reiterate] that, even for those who do not know us, our brains are typically hardwired to use pronouns based upon what appearance we see.  If someone looks like a guy, chances are people will use male pronouns, and if someone looks like a woman, chances are people will use female pronouns; people cannot read our minds to know any different.  It takes more than "wishing" you were female if you ever expect any results, and it takes those results for anyone to even attempt to change the pronouns they use.  Throughout our lives, certain words become associated with image and we typically don't think twice about what we say.  Unfortunately, that is just the way it is.

Quote from: Beverley on December 19, 2011, 01:10:55 PM
Transition takes years. Let those you love come along slowly with you.

Beverley

Agreed with your whole post, but this summary is spot on!!! I think most of those who transition in a rush wind up burning themselves heavily. These are the transitions that will cause the transsexual to lose friends and family so fast, you will have absolutely no support system available to you. I'm also willing to bet it's where the majority of the suicides happen, too.

Yeah, I started my transition slowly - now people do not make a big fuss when I demand to be called "Ms." at my work after having dressed en femme for a year last year but not on hormones. I just requested to be called by my last name with no "Mr" attached and allowed people to call me s/he as they saw fit within their comfort zones. People were already riled up by the mere fact that I was wearing skirts and makeup to work, heh.
.
Now my license says F and I am on hormones - and no one hardly blinks now when I requested that "she" and "Ms" became my official and permanent changes this year.

I agree with everyone here that there is so much more to passing and being accepted as female than wearing a bow in your hair and calling it a day. Some MTF aren't even femme and I hate to say it, but even most grown up femmes don't usually wear bows in their hair (especially while it's down) in this day and age. To your parents, it may seem silly and it may seem like you're just trying to stand out, even though you know that's not true. I'm kind of curious as if you've developed your sense of personal style yet or if you're still taking shots in the dark as to what kind of lady you want to be. If you don't have that part of your identity figured out yet, this could make it a lot harder for people to call you by the correct pronouns, because most are already much more prone to being confused by "transiness" than you are.  If I'm totally wrong here, feel free to correct me, but it sounds like you're very insecure about your gender identity and therefore result to anxiety and ire when it comes time to defend it. If so, once you become more confident with who you are, it'll slowly become a lot easier to explain to people who you are without losing your temper and people will likely begin to believe you more because your responses seem "natural" - and the more and more people begin to believe you, the less you will need to justify yourself.  :]

Quote from: JasonRX on December 19, 2011, 09:55:00 PM
If so, once you become more confident with who you are, it'll slowly become a lot easier to explain to people who you are without losing your temper and people will likely begin to believe you more because your responses seem "natural" - and the more and more people begin to believe you, the less you will need to justify yourself.  :]

It's funny, I came out to the best friend I have in school today  ... at first she thought a transsexual was someone with both male and female parts, but when I explained it to her, she wondered why I was even nervous to tell her. She basically said "Yeah I kinda figured that part out a while ago". I've never been nothing but myself in school.. my classmates probably wouldn't be surprised if I came to school dressed as a girl with makeup on. They'd probably not even blink at it unless it was a hideous outfit!

Be yourself. That's all that matters in transition. Don't fall into the trap of always trying to prove who you are because that's what you're moving away from when you do transition.

A few points.

1) Lose the bow. It looks just plain silly.

2) Whilst living at home, whether you like it or not, you will have to live by your parents' rules. Even though you are 23 years old you are still a child to them. Until you move out, get your own place and get a job you won't be an adult.

3) Don't be asking questions of your parents. If you are trans you tell them you are trans. If you are a woman you show them that you are a woman. Asking them these questions whilst living as a male under their roof is an approach that is simply not feasible.

I, and other on this board, say these things because we want you to succeed in your wish to transition. As others have said, transition is a complex and gradual process. It can be lonely as well so don't be expecting your parents to support you. The best you can hope for is that they will support you after you have shown them that you can support yourself as a woman in society without their assistence, financial or otherwise. On a personal note, my parents are so more respecting of me now that I have been living an independent life for some years now.

So grow a pair because the world ain't pretty for women, let alone trans women. You have to be strong and brave and stop giving a f--- about what others think of you, outside of obvious areas where it matters such as employment, job opportunities and being viewed as just another woman.

Good luck!

You're going the right way, but in my opinion, you're doing it wrong.

You should talk to professionals, and get to the stage of hormones, before starting the actual transition and requesting for people to call you female. I know it's not pleasant, but unless your will is to go drag/queer or some other in-between state in which you are likely to be discriminated against, you can't be credible as a female as you are now, and won't be able to for a while, so you have to bear with it, sadly.

Your parents are being harsh and having trouble accepting, which is bad. You're going to have to "force" them to accept you, and you do not do that by confronting them and fighting them; it'll probably not work.

You have to convince them with your actions. Not by "crossdressing" (weird term since you're actually female), not by fighting, not by requesting the immediate use of female pronouns, but by showing them your resolve, determination and self-confidence. Go see a health / mental health professional that looks friendly to your cause.

Your parents are "right". You need help and "meds". Just not what they think. Let them keep on their wrong assumptions for a while: you need to see someone anyway.

For now, I suggest not making it set in stone that you're transsexual. Tell them you think it's that but could be mistaken, that either way you'll need help. They won't see it as a threat/confrontation so much anymore and will probably have you see a professional... who will probably see your transsexual problem and tell your parents about it. That, I think, is the one think that can help the most. For someone credible to explain the situation to them.

If things really go bad with them, you could always just leave them and do this on your own. But if you have no job or studies that you do, what can you do?

In short, do the official/medical part before jumping in cute accessories and social transition. Of course, your friends can call you by your preference if they want to; that would just be great. But as much as people must accept your transsexualism and female nature, even more so if they're having trouble understand the very situation itself, the vast majority of people need to see a female to consider that person female.

I hope it helps... And I hope I'm not being too harsh. Of course, I'm aware some people transition like that and succeed, but I reckon it's far from the safest, easiest way to do so. That's why, two years after my coming out, I still present as a girly-ish male, because neither my name, gender status, body or hormone levels have changed.

You don't have the appearance of a female YET. You look like some subtle femme gay guy...and that is me being NICE. I get a huge GAY vibe from you and from someone who was in the closet from my parents from so long, I can't help but wonder if you're in denial or something. Being a woman won't change the fact that society is going to perceive you as "->-bleeped-<-gy" if you continue down this path. The catwalk comment, the makeup store comment...HUGE GAY VIBE.

Sorry, you need a ton of work and you can't expect people to see a woman until you've put EFFORT into look like a woman, at least wear some makeup. That means getting a makeup makeover, getting a high quality wig, exploring DRAG to figure out what works and what doesn't. If you're heart is that set on being a woman, you need to WERQK.

I'd also advise getting cardio to lose some of your mass. Hormones alone won't feminize you below the neck. You will need FFS/BA/etc so you also better have a good job lined up down the line. That is even before you consider SRS...

I wash my hands on responding to these posts.. Sorry, you're rushing this and at this point...you're beyond help. I've advised you several times on what to do. But you seem to ignore the advice of many people here.

i think i can see where some others are coming from, but they delivered it pretty harshly to me. i'll just say that your parents or others won't actually get in the realm of understanding you unless they understand the concept that you are a female in a male body. they need to understand the concept that you are transgender. you shouldn't ask them questions, you need to tell them. it is not up to them as much as they might think it is. you need to prove to them your identity is yours for the taking. i can see how if you just wear a bow, they wouldn't take it seriously. i would urge you to try and blend in as a transgender person, and not to draw attention. it's a good rule to live by even if you're so female looking, you could pass for cisgender.

just start taking the steps of transition if you're ready. it's always best to start off with a good therapist (preferrably gender) who can get you to understand yourself more and other people around you. the therapist is a good step in getting them to understand this concept and for you to be able to transition and set goals more effectively. it happens in many stages. it's something we all need to learn as we go along and then take it as it comes to us. you can't transition the same as someone else, it's just not that easy.

if you can just start with a gender therapist and start building the backbone and the will to go through this, that's a good and probably the best place to start. you always want to stay true to yourself and be natural, that is the key to success.

i'm really sorry if this comes off harshly. i remember the way i was in the past, and getting answers to questions like these would just sink me into depression. unfortunately, when a question like this is asked, people really can't do much more than think how the real world works. just think of this now as something that is going to make you much stronger as an individual as you go through it. it is a test on so many levels, and it won't happen overnight. i just wish you luck with this, and try not to take alot of these things to heart.

Gonna go with what Mahsa said.

Stay strong girl we all go through these struggles
taking transition steps is really hard, i can't really assume what's going on with you so I wont start barking at you for not taking criticism.

You're supposed to get support here regardless of everything, we get enough bull crap off the internet.
The pronoun thing can be hard to deal with but the best thing i can say to you right now is to know that the pronoun is just a word, it means alot to all of us to be called "her and she" but this early in your transition, try to not let it get to you
it wasn't able to define you before, don't let it now. Being a transgender woman and transitioning is a rough path.
Keep going<3

Quote from: niamh on December 20, 2011, 12:25:35 PM
A few points.

1) Lose the bow. It looks just plain silly.

2) Whilst living at home, whether you like it or not, you will have to live by your parents' rules. Even though you are 23 years old you are still a child to them. Until you move out, get your own place and get a job you won't be an adult.

3) Don't be asking questions of your parents. If you are trans you tell them you are trans. If you are a woman you show them that you are a woman. Asking them these questions whilst living as a male under their roof is an approach that is simply not feasible.

I, and other on this board, say these things because we want you to succeed in your wish to transition. As others have said, transition is a complex and gradual process. It can be lonely as well so don't be expecting your parents to support you. The best you can hope for is that they will support you after you have shown them that you can support yourself as a woman in society without their assistence, financial or otherwise. On a personal note, my parents are so more respecting of me now that I have been living an independent life for some years now.

So grow a pair because the world ain't pretty for women, let alone trans women. You have to be strong and brave and stop giving a f--- about what others think of you, outside of obvious areas where it matters such as employment, job opportunities and being viewed as just another woman.

Good luck!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 20, 2011, 01:38:38 PM
You don't have the appearance of a female YET. You look like some subtle femme gay guy...and that is me being NICE. I get a huge GAY vibe from you and from someone who was in the closet from my parents from so long, I can't help but wonder if you're in denial or something. Being a woman won't change the fact that society is going to perceive you as "->-bleeped-<-gy" if you continue down this path. The catwalk comment, the makeup store comment...HUGE GAY VIBE.

Sorry, you need a ton of work and you can't expect people to see a woman until you've put EFFORT into look like a woman, at least wear some makeup. That means getting a makeup makeover, getting a high quality wig, exploring DRAG to figure out what works and what doesn't. If you're heart is that set on being a woman, you need to WERQK.

I'd also advise getting cardio to lose some of your mass. Hormones alone won't feminize you below the neck. You will need FFS/BA/etc so you also better have a good job lined up down the line. That is even before you consider SRS...

I wash my hands on responding to these posts.. Sorry, you're rushing this and at this point...you're beyond help. I've advised you several times on what to do. But you seem to ignore the advice of many people here.

Very good points made in both these statements.

I dressed like a woman first at work while growing out my hair before I actually started hormones. For a while, I just accepted that people where I worked would inevitably view me as a femme gay man even though I announced that I was trans and knew I was inside.

It just basically softened them up so they had time to react to my transition slowly as I unceasingly increased my gentle, subtle demands to be recognized as a woman at work (i.e., starting to require students to put down "Ms" on their homeworks, etc)....

So I guess my point is that - you do not necessarily have to start hormones first before starting to dress.

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 20, 2011, 10:38:07 PM
So I guess my point is that - you do not necessarily have to start hormones first before starting to dress.

Of course not.  But that's the point, the OP has yet to begin dressing (a bow on the head does not constitute as "dressing") or put forth any effort for that matter.  Insisting people use pronouns when you've yet to put any effort into your appearance to support such insistence, will get you no where and is certainly not the way to go about it.  This post as well as others from the OP have lead me to believe that she expects results without doing any work.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 20, 2011, 10:50:53 PM
Of course not.  But that's the point, the OP has yet to begin dressing (a bow on the head does not constitute as "dressing") or put forth any effort for that matter.  Insisting people use pronouns when you've yet to put any effort into your appearance to support such insistence, will get you no where and is certainly not the way to go about it.  This post as well as others from the OP have lead me to believe that she expects results without doing any work.

i believe when you come out as transgender you have the right to ask for a specific pronoun usage.

Quote from: Torn1990 on December 20, 2011, 11:03:28 PM
i believe when you come out as transgender you have the right at that moment to ask for a specific pronoun usage.

Not everyone is so willing to comply and I certainly don't believe in insisting upon it.  Most people say "him" or "her" without blinking an eye because the mind naturally associates those words with the image we see.  So, even if someone has been made aware of someone being trans, it doesn't necessarily mean they are intentionally using the incorrect pronouns.  Furthermore, if you are dealing with individuals who are against someone being trans, it's most definitely a waste of time to insist upon correct pronouns.  Those who are close to us and who have known us for quite some time have become accustom to using male pronouns.  To insist they stop and use the opposite pronouns their mind is perceiving the image in front of them as, and furthermore to not give them any sort of physical change to influence their [possible] efforts in using the correct pronouns, seems quite ridiculous.

Quote from: Torn1990 on December 20, 2011, 11:03:28 PM
i believe when you come out as transgender you have the right to ask for a specific pronoun usage.

I don't ... I've come out to a few people, and I have a very difficult time asking people to refer to me as a female when I still haven't gotten laser yet, and I have thick black hair  poking out of my face no matter how close I shave. It doesn't matter how much you know you're a female, if you're subconscious about your looks, you know what kind of treatment you can naturally expect to get.

To the OP: I've checked out your youtube vids. What I am about to say will probably be taken very harshly, but it's only meant to help. Keep in mind, transitioning has killed many, many people. Suicide rates are astonishing for the gender dysphoric, so it is ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT you KNOW with 100% certainty who you are, or what gender dysphoria you're experiencing now will seem like a sunny fall day filled with bunnies and rainbows and whatever good thoughts you can imagine.

I think you need to see a therapist if you haven't been already. If you have been, I suggest finding another, because I read you as somebody who is trying to be a girl instead of trying to be yourself.

My therapist asked me all the time "Why do you think you're a girl" .. my first answer was something along the lines of "Well I'm sympathetic and nurturing blahblahblah" .. and he told me "Well a guy can be that". There is so much truth to this statement. A guy can like pink, a guy can wear dresses, a guy can be ditzy. Society may not like it, but a guy can do all of these things. Something far more deeper than stereotypical desires / fetishes causes true transsexualism. It took my therapist forcing me to write an essay on why I feel the way I do to snap everything into focus for me. I wont tell you what I wrote because I don't want you to go along the lines of me, but I would seriously suggest you do the same thing and taking that to therapy.

I'm sorry, but when you make posts saying you'd like to wear some godawful softball shirt with a glittery "Cutie" on it, you make youtube videos of clinique products at the mall, or you make a video where you stand in front of the mirror for 1 full minute with your shirt pinned in the back so you can show us what boobs you have, while you laugh like a teenage boy thinking about boobs, that tends to scream "I'm overcompensating!" Couple that with the way you mumble, stumble, and laugh nervously 95% of the time and I'd say deep down, you're extremely insecure with who you are.

As someone has said earlier, you're just beginning and you have a long way to go. Get it right. Call your parents bluff and have them help you get some therapy if you aren't seeing it already. If you get yourself wrong, you will have so many regrets it's not even funny. However, if you are truly trans, a therapist will help you be yourself, instead of coming off insecure, childish, defensive, and well.. just overall awkward!

Pats on the back honey. I know you're looking for support and acceptance, but sometimes the best support is a reality check.

Ya, I was going to mention the YouTube channel, but declined to do so.  I've gone round and round with the OP since the day she joined this site, and I'm exhausted.  Well said, Alaina.