I do understand what the OP is saying, and to a certain degree, I also agree.
Especially about that hip-thing, as a very passable and masculine FTM may still have a very broad pelvis. However, in my opinon, that is pretty much the only physiological problem an FTM face in regards of passability and success of transitioning, if on full HRT and having the access to surgical help.
And, some FTM's do not have female skeleton at all and thus pass 100%.

However, in regards of social acceptance, I am quite ambivalent on the issue, as FTM's, if open about their status, may face quite harse attitudes aswell from those that do not accept "such" people.
Funny thing is, that- on several boards- I have seen lots of people complimenting and cheering when a very pretty and passable MTF is debated, but when a FTM is subject for debate, the attitudes can be extremely disrespecting.

Please note, that ofcourse, MTF's, too, all too often faces these very same attitudes aswell from the homophobes and transphobes, but it is yet something that I have several times thought about, that the reactions towards a FTM, although attractive and masculine, often seems slightly different than the reactions towards a MTF.

Still, it is perhaps just a pure coincidence, and it might perhaps after all be that there is really no difference at all, who knows. *Shrugs*

Nonetheless worth mentioning.

Oh and another thing; Many people seems to be totally unaware about FTM's even existing. Just the other evening, I was following a discussion about a FTM, when a poster started talking about "reverse transsexuals" to refer to FTM's. 
Many people simply take the MTF as the postersymbol for a transsexual, and totally ignores FTM's although they being pretty much as many.


Anyway, in regards of who has it the "easiest". I don't think it really can be compared, as both groups have different problems in regards of transitioning, although some of the problems, especially the social ones, is very much the same.

It can depend on the individual's factors as well - acceptance of family and friends is independent of being MtF or FtM most of the time, and access to certain medical procedures can also vary from country to country.

I'd say it's probably easiest (in relative terms) for young MtFs such as myself, I was able to change my voice fairly easily, I've always had a small frame and a not too masculine facial structure and have now had genital surgery which is convincing.

Of course the lack of effective FtM genital surgery and the greater difficulty of the operation compared to vaginoplasty could be said to offset the fact that MtFs generally have a harder time passing than FtMs. But then that also depends on the individual as some FtMs don't mind not having the metoidioplasty or phalloplasty - meaning for them, it's easier, relatively speaking.

I think the statistics (aka lives) remembered this past TDOR serve as the best rational why MTFs have it harder. It succinctly summarizes the societal expectations for those born either male or female and the repercussions for those not able to or wanting to conform to their birth role.  In order to obtain some measure of success an MTF does have to work much harder at passing.

(BTW-I am defining "passing" as walking down the street w/o getting read)

Try as I might, I cannot rationalize a "grass is always greener" argument in favor of FTMs having a more difficult time to "pass". Let's be real, you can take about any fully grown mature gg and with very little work she can pass as a male. Perhaps a young or boyish looking male, but still pass. Not so for most males when it comes to passing and ultimately acceptance by society at large as a female.

I can readily agree adolescent females do have more body issues to deal with than males. There is the very real "I can get preggers" part where reality gets in the way of ignoring. Yet, both males and females have "ideals" that they measure themselves against. Societal standards place pressures on both sexes to posses those ideal traits. Biological destiny does put females that at a disadvantage. They are the flowers and males are the bee's. The pressure is real for females to try live up to those ideals.

The body shape is a bit of a bogus argument. A very sizable percentage (1/3) of western women have andropoid hips. Here in WV I've noticed there is nearly zero difference in how men and women walk, no matter which age group you choose.

As far as passing, I want to point out (though how it relates to gender divides or any of us I'm not sure) how different it is town to town. I see a lot of ambiguously gendered people here in Portland, and my transdar gets all fungled up with my gaydar, cd-dar, punkdar, youthdar, etc (I'm getting lexically stupid here, i know).

Quote from: cynthialee on December 26, 2011, 09:16:05 AM
All of the FTM I know locally have jobs. Only 1 of the MTF I know has a job. There are 3 MTF for every transman in our IRL group.

When MTF have the same hire rate as FTM locally I will change my perception that FTM have more passing privilage.

I think "having it harder" and "having a harder time passing" should probably be thought of as separate questions.

And wow tekla, that is quite a cynical statement. Not that I'm disagreeing.

I think from a social point of view it's harder for trans women. It's mostly ok for a woman to wear male clothing but a man wearing female clothing can get you assulted or worse in this society.

Physically I don't think there is much in it. I think puberty may be a bit harder for trans men but passing harder for trans women. Still I don't think there is that much in it either way.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 26, 2011, 09:16:05 AM
All of the FTM I know locally have jobs. Only 1 of the MTF I know has a job. There are 3 MTF for every transman in our IRL group.

When MTF have the same hire rate as FTM locally I will change my perception that FTM have more passing privilage.

Seriously? The majority of MtFs (including myself) I know have jobs,  and more often than not fairly decent ones at that.

Quote from: Assoluta on December 26, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
Seriously? The majority of MtFs (including myself) I know have jobs,  and more often than not fairly decent ones at that.

I know more MTFs who are unemployed than I do MTF who are employed. Me being a MTF in a Christian Seminary is almost non existant...I know of two other MTF who are currently attending Seminaries across the United States. I know of five who have graduated Seminaries some time ago and have a job.

On the other hand, we have five FTM at my seminary alone and at least one hundred currently in the United States in Seminary. Even in a conservative seminary a FTM can get away with wearing men's clothing and not be kicked out under a type of "Don't ask don't tell."  If a MTF wore a skirt in a conservative seminary, they wouldn't make it through one class before asking to leave the school (I've seen this first hand in conservative Bible Colleges....Liberty College being one of them).

I think this ratio is pretty much accurate if compared to the general job market.

Even though MTFs on average have it harder because of the intersection of cissexism and misogyny, it depends on a case by case basis because of factors like race, social class, etc. For example, a working class, gay, trans man of color would have it harder than a middle-upper class, straight, white, trans woman.

Quote from: TheAetherealMeadow on December 27, 2011, 12:20:10 AM
Even though MTFs on average have it harder because of the intersection of cissexism and misogyny, it depends on a case by case basis because of factors like race, social class, etc. For example, a working class, gay, trans man of color would have it harder than a middle-upper class, straight, white, trans woman.

if you compare it like that, a transwoman of color would have a significantly harder time in society than a transman of color.....at least where I live.

Quote from: Annah on December 27, 2011, 01:31:57 AM
if you compare it like that, a transwoman of color would have a significantly harder time in society than a transman of color.....at least where I live.

I think if we want to get really reductionist about it, men do tend to have it easier, whether cis or trans.

I agree that FTMs generally pass faster/easier than MTFs, but you ladies have far superior surgical options.

Quote from: Felix on December 27, 2011, 01:44:47 AM
I think if we want to get really reductionist about it, men do tend to have it easier, whether cis or trans.

I disagree.
Whether Cis-men or Trans-men, that too, is a incomparable question, as women and men have different problems in different ways, aswell as different benefits, too. In some aspects, men has it easier, while in other aspects, specifically regarding legal issues and work, women actually have more benefits.

As for unemployment, it indeed seems that there are generally more unemployed MTF's than there are unemployed FTM's, or atleast it seems that way. FtM's rather tend to just "get a job" and start working, regardless of what it is, while MTF's more often tends to isolate themselves and basically just stay indoors, for various reasons.

Ofcourse, there are many very successfull and social MTF's, too, but generally, the isolation issues seems to be much more frequent amongst MTF's than FTM's.
What this is caused by, one can only speculate, although the generally mentioned issues are a combination of depression because the own body leading to  social phobia and in turn, unwillingless of moving amongst people in the everyday life, and, selfchosen celibacy because they don't know how to relate intimately with other people because of their "state", whether Pre or Post-op.


As for receivement, I would say that FTM's, although masculine and passable, atleast seemingly appears to have a somewhat worse time getting accepted than pretty and passable MTF's, but then again, it is just a personal observation.

I don't think there is anything cynical in saying: everybody has it easier than I do is a general feeling among humans.  Indeed, I think it's pretty good humanistic thinking.  Nobody gets a total pass in life, no matter how much it looks from the outside like they did.  Not everyone shares the exact same sorrows, disappointments, trials and tribulations - and huge disillusionments - that's true, but everyone has their share.  And who's to say which set is harder?  Which ones are tougher to live through?  - Well... we all do.  And it turns out that when we are really into it, we KNOW that we have it worse than anyone else.  Again, that's just human nature.  Its' ego working overtime so that ego will be there to pull you out later.

I mean everyone has lost a BF/GF at some point, and I'm sure that for each of us one of those breakups is the most heart-wrenching, gut-busting tear-filled break-ups ever.  Epic, on a scale like Casablanca.  Heartbreak greater than any other heartbreak, cupids worst error and all that.  Except for the people who never even got to fall in love that way even once.  How much sadder are those stories?

Know why blues music is so universal, across class lines, across race lines in America, across borders and cultures?  'Cause if you don't have the blues today, and you didn't have the blues yesterday, then so' 'nuff ya'll gonna have the blues tomorrow.  That's why.  Because the blues themselves are universal.  Everybody feels like they are walking that long lonely road all by themselves sometimes.  It's part of the human condition.

I sense that you re-opened, rather than ended the debate.  No offense, but I don't think it's close.  Across the entire spectrum of considerations, it's harder for us.

Testosterone has stronger effects on the body.  It wrecks our bodies at puberty, and it quickly changes theirs.  We get more grief from society, are more likely to be victims of violence.

But everyone has their own road.  Some FtMs have it harder than some MtFs.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on December 28, 2011, 01:24:00 AM
I sense that you re-opened, rather than ended the debate.  No offense, but I don't think it's close.  Across the entire spectrum of considerations, it's harder for us.

Testosterone has stronger effects on the body.  It wrecks our bodies at puberty, and it quickly changes theirs.  We get more grief from society, are more likely to be victims of violence.

But everyone has their own road.  Some FtMs have it harder than some MtFs.

Yup yup yup. I agree with all of this.

Though I should modify my agreement to say that "across the entire spectrum" is a bit of an overly strong statement, and that the last comment is a good caveat. Still.

By "across the entire spectrum" I meant, considering all the issues.  It's easy to focus on surgery, for instance, and fixate on FtMs having it tough there.  But MtFs have these two huge problems, testosterone and violence, that kinda sit out all alone.  Nothing on the FtM side really counteracts those.  If those were equal, then overall, FtMs would have it harder.

On the other hand, time seems to be changing that, as society evolves.  Some of these young kids, born male but raised by supportive parents as female, who avoid male puberty - they probably have it easier than any FtM.  And I suppose that for a pre-transition MtF to be pregnant and give birth is probably a worse experience than getting stomped by homophobic bikers.

Quote from: Beverley on December 28, 2011, 01:33:23 PM
I am reminded of the old adage that "Men have responsibilities, women have choices". Having spent decades as a male I can tell you that the pressure can be intense, expectations that others hold about you can be very demanding and you can be very lonely because men do not bond like women. There is less mutual support and I am a fairly gregarious male who gets on well with others. Some men can be dreadfully unhappy and it is why so many throw themselves into jobs and careers to the exclusion of all else. A job gives you a framework to interact with others and share responsibility.

You might find this website interesting http://wefeelfine.org/ Click on Open we feel fine on the righthand side and when the display starts up click (or double click) on a coloured ball to see how someone feels. These are all scraped from blogs and places like Susans. Generally women feel happier then men and men feel lonlier than women.

As far as transitioning goes, I would rather be MTF than FTM. The passing will just have to sort itself out, but the breasts and vagina - the more complete physical transformation - is what I crave. I will be tall, big boned and maybe not have the most femme face and I will have to sort that voice out, but having been male I want nothing more to do with it. It is a ghastly state to exist in.

Beverley

What you said is very true. It is a myth that women have it easier, and statistically, a very unsupported myth, too
Not to mention, that the rate of suicides amonst males is four times higher than that of females; That is, on every female commiting suicide, 4 males is doing the same.
In Great Brittain, Suicide is even the next common cause of death for males under the age of 35.

The statistics hardly looks that way because males has it easier.

You know Gina, I know the beatings and murders happen more to MtF than FtM people, but anecdotally I don't see that. My own experience is hard for me to not get tunnel-visioned by. I've been beaten more than once for acting like a homo or dressing in a way that was disrespectful to god or whatever people felt they saw wrong with me. In 6th grade I got threatened and in trouble after I supposedly was scoping out a naked person in the girl's locker room. They just assumed I liked girls because I acted like a boy. It felt like a witch hunt.

And Beverly, I agree with everything you say there, but 2nd and 3rd world countries aren't drowning any boy babies. I am learning that there is enormous pressure being male, and far less human connection. But to me that feels good and makes sense, idk why.