Does anyone else notice that the FTM forum is mainly the same questions/comments over and over? No offense to anyone and I know that people need help and stuff, but it just seems like the FTM forum is basically questions like "How do I get T?", "How do I talk to people about T?" "What will T do to me?" etc. There is very little about social transition here. I don't see nearly as many questions about social stuff. Some family stuff is mentioned. Like coming out, etc and that's great, but beyond that...nothing. Just more T questions. I have to admit, I spend a lot of time in the MTF section because I find their conversations less about physical transition and more about other aspects of life. Like dating, work, and some discussions on stuff like what it means to be a transwoman, being accepted as trans by men...etc....I see some of this in the FTM section, but honestly, this forum is SO focused on physical transition. I just think there is life beyond T and physical changes. I admit I'm pre-T and being so means no physical changes. I'm not jealous of those post-T, I'm just simply stating that there is life beyond physical transition and I know people deal with other aspects of life. Why don't we hear about those more often?

Isn't something like that normal though?
Guys don't really talk about life experiences or their feelings lol.

Well at least that's how cis-men are in my city, I don't know if being trans makes you more open with that kind of stuff.

Why don't you be the leader then?

I would have to agree with some of your observations, but I also think there is a reasonable explanation for the continued re-hashing of topics.  Each thread in an essence is rather personalized; not that referring someone to a 2 year old informative forum posting is a bad idea, it would just seem most people are looking for a real (current) human perspective.  Using Google search does tell us a lot, but recycled articles on informational transition websites only say so much.

I think Epi is right.

Each board seems to have its own 'feel' I've noticed. 

Imo almost everything social related is negative.
People here worry about things that are not important at all (example: shoe sizes), get depressed/suicidal over it etc.
I think that's why there's so little 'social' related things posted. People worry too much about other things, which in their mind are important and making it hard for them to pass, while they really don't.

[[These are all generalisations, don't shoot me.]]
I'd guess that it's because pre-T and surgery transmen have an easier time passing than transwomen, so we're more accustomed to being seen as male by the world before we transition, so the main aspect of it is the physical side.  The stereotypes of transgendered people are mostly based on transwomen (or dragqueens) so we don't have to undo that part of people's thinking before we explain to them what being trans means to us.  I'm not sure that made any sense.  What I'm trying to say is that transmen are generally more accepted than transwomen, so the physical part is the main barrier for us, so we talk about that more.  There's also less social stigma surrounding transmen I guess, MAAB are "supposed" to be masculine and are seen as "gay" or "pussys" and a "disgrace" if they're not, whereas societies adjusting to FAAB being more masculine, and don't bother much past a few occasional comments.

Also, women like to chitchat more than us guys.

QuotePeople here worry about things that are not important at all (example: shoe sizes), get depressed/suicidal over it etc.

Not having a go or anything, but what brings out dysphoria varies between people, and it might not be important to some, but others it is.

I actually have noticed people worrying about things like shoe sizes, etc and how it relates to passing. I've made threads about people pointing out small details that have very little relevance to passing and blowing them up. Most people chalk it up to "being trans means we pay more attention to stuff like that" which makes me think trans people should be the last people saying if we pass.

As far as "men don't talk about their feelings". I really hope I'm NEVER like that as I feel like there is so much about life to talk about and I have so many things to say about stereotypical "male" and "female" things. Also on that topic, some men actually do talk about their feelings and such. Just listen to most modern music. lol

I am being the leader of bringing this to light by starting this thread. 

I also want to say, I'm not saying talking about T over and over is a bad thing. We do need it. I just think other things are important as well and should be discussed.

Quote from: Darrin on December 29, 2011, 04:15:03 PM
I actually have noticed people worrying about things like shoe sizes, etc and how it relates to passing. I've made threads about people pointing out small details that have very little relevance to passing and blowing them up. Most people chalk it up to "being trans means we pay more attention to stuff like that" which makes me think trans people should be the last people saying if we pass.

As far as "men don't talk about their feelings". I really hope I'm NEVER like that as I feel like there is so much about life to talk about and I have so many things to say about stereotypical "male" and "female" things. Also on that topic, some men actually do talk about their feelings and such. Just listen to most modern music. lol

I am being the leader of bringing this to light by starting this thread. 

I also want to say, I'm not saying talking about T over and over is a bad thing. We do need it. I just think other things are important as well and should be discussed.

Adam: I dont see it as being more easy to pass, actually I think FTM have a harder time passing than MTF which might be why ftm put so much into it?, problem is many people just think FTM pre-T and so as being tomboys or dykes, and its less taboo than being trans, because of that theres less comments, but it dosent mean they Accept up as men, but that they just dont care if we are maculine womens.
----
Darrin:
its not true men dont talk about there fellings, whats true is in steryotype they dont.
I used to talk to girls, when I where to talk emotions, but laterly I found guys pretty nice to comunicate with,
its hard to explain but I feel better in the connection with them.

Quote from: Natkat on December 29, 2011, 04:52:35 PM
Adam: I dont see it as being more easy to pass, actually I think FTM have a harder time passing than MTF which might be why ftm put so much into it?, problem is many people just think FTM pre-T and so as being tomboys or dykes, and its less taboo than being trans, because of that theres less comments, but it dosent mean they Accept up as men, but that they just dont care if we are maculine womens.

From what I've seen, a haircut, clothes and a binder is often all it takes to pass as male, whereas it appears to be harder for transwomen. Not that i know much, I rarely spend much time on the mtf boards.

But it is true that if we dont pass we get thought of as butch women and no one cares, but going the other way and getting read as a crossdresser or ->-bleeped-<-got or worse can get dangerous.

When I was pre-transition and in early transition, I cared a lot about how to get T, what I could expect from T, how to be read as male more frequently, etc.  I had a lot of worries about bathrooms, coming out, physical transition, and all that stuff.  And even though I socially transitioned two years before I began physical transition, the social stuff tended to be less pressing.  It was in some ways easier to deal with.

Now, however, things are different.  I'm about as socially transitioned as it gets, I'm well on my way with physical transition, I'm stealth in some areas of life and selectively out in others.  Now that my trans identity is no longer at the forefront of all of my day-to-day experiences, I'm starting to pick up on the social aspects of being a man a bit more.  As an out trans man, particularly when I was around people who knew me before transition or when I was not being read as male, I was never really expected to live up to the norms and stereotypes of masculinity and maleness.  People interacted with me like they always had.  However, I am finding that people react to and interact with me in a vastly different way now that I am no longer known as "the trans guy" but rather as just another guy.  People's expectations of me are different (when I apologized to my boss for a mistake I made, he thought I was giving him attitude), and the way that people, especially men, interact with me is really different (guys say the most disgustingly sexist things around other guys!). 

However, on this forum, we have far fewer trans guys in late transition or post-transition than we do folks who are considering transition or just beginning it.  I don't want to generalize off of just one person's experience, but I do think that this has something to do with the fact that social transition is not talked about as much.  That's not to say it shouldn't be talked about - on the contrary, I think it's important to talk about all of this stuff, and I understand your frustration about the absence of this sort of discussion - but it just seems less likely to come up in this crowd.

This is an interesting thread. I agree with a lot of what's been said.

I will say regarding the same threads happening over and over - I know that for me, a question or detail can gain or lose significance rapidly as I progress in my transition. So I like seeing people's perspectives and musings and stuff even on topics that get brought up a lot.

Quote from: Darrin on December 29, 2011, 04:15:03 PMmen don't talk about their feelings

so true i read a whole book on depression in men and how occurs more often then statistics suggest and it is rarely treated because men wont talk about their feelings.

QuoteMAAB...  FAAB

?

Quote from: AdamMLP on December 29, 2011, 04:07:22 PM
Also, women like to chitchat more than us guys.
Not having a go or anything, but what brings out dysphoria varies between people, and it might not be important to some, but others it is.

Yes, but the thing is, these are things that many 'bio' guys have. I know guys who are a whole feet taller than me, but who only have shoe size US 7 (one size bigger than me).
They do not care that their shoe size is small, in fact, they are happy with it since they can get limited edition sneakers since no one else buys their sizes! Many things that cause dysphoria are things that bio guys have to deal with too, you just need to get your mind past that... you have to realize that guys have it too. I am only 5 ft, and people consider me 'just a small guy' and they makes jokes about my baby sized feet, that's all. Dysphoria makes you pass less because of your insecurities. Walk straight, you all know that you are a guy so you should reflect that in whatever you do. You know you're a guy, confidence will show others that you are a guy.

Quote from: Nezhi on December 30, 2011, 07:11:28 AM
Yes, but the thing is, these are things that many 'bio' guys have. I know guys who are a whole feet taller than me, but who only have shoe size US 7 (one size bigger than me).
They do not care that their shoe size is small, in fact, they are happy with it since they can get limited edition sneakers since no one else buys their sizes! Many things that cause dysphoria are things that bio guys have to deal with too, you just need to get your mind past that... you have to realize that guys have it too. I am only 5 ft, and people consider me 'just a small guy' and they makes jokes about my baby sized feet, that's all. Dysphoria makes you pass less because of your insecurities. Walk straight, you all know that you are a guy so you should reflect that in whatever you do. You know you're a guy, confidence will show others that you are a guy.

Ah ok, I think I misunderstood the point you were trying to get at.  Sorry about that.

Quote from: Liam K on December 29, 2011, 06:18:37 PM
When I was pre-transition and in early transition, I cared a lot about how to get T, what I could expect from T, how to be read as male more frequently, etc.  I had a lot of worries about bathrooms, coming out, physical transition, and all that stuff.  And even though I socially transitioned two years before I began physical transition, the social stuff tended to be less pressing.  It was in some ways easier to deal with.

Now, however, things are different.  I'm about as socially transitioned as it gets, I'm well on my way with physical transition, I'm stealth in some areas of life and selectively out in others.  Now that my trans identity is no longer at the forefront of all of my day-to-day experiences, I'm starting to pick up on the social aspects of being a man a bit more.  As an out trans man, particularly when I was around people who knew me before transition or when I was not being read as male, I was never really expected to live up to the norms and stereotypes of masculinity and maleness.  People interacted with me like they always had.  However, I am finding that people react to and interact with me in a vastly different way now that I am no longer known as "the trans guy" but rather as just another guy.  People's expectations of me are different (when I apologized to my boss for a mistake I made, he thought I was giving him attitude), and the way that people, especially men, interact with me is really different (guys say the most disgustingly sexist things around other guys!). 

However, on this forum, we have far fewer trans guys in late transition or post-transition than we do folks who are considering transition or just beginning it.  I don't want to generalize off of just one person's experience, but I do think that this has something to do with the fact that social transition is not talked about as much.  That's not to say it shouldn't be talked about - on the contrary, I think it's important to talk about all of this stuff, and I understand your frustration about the absence of this sort of discussion - but it just seems less likely to come up in this crowd.

about noticing diffrence,
am I the only one who kinda felt girls changes after I transdition. I used to be "the girls friend" kinda type, even when they all knew me as trans, I am still having alot of girl friends, but now they keep me more on distance, and somethimes point out how im the guy, and how I should do this or that cause im the man?.

QuoteHowever, on this forum, we have far fewer trans guys in late transition or post-transition than we do folks who are considering transition or just beginning it.  I don't want to generalize off of just one person's experience, but I do think that this has something to do with the fact that social transition is not talked about as much.  That's not to say it shouldn't be talked about - on the contrary, I think it's important to talk about all of this stuff, and I understand your frustration about the absence of this sort of discussion - but it just seems less likely to come up in this crowd.

I disagree.  I'm several years post-transition and migrate in and out of this board annually or so.  I think that I, along with many post-transition guys I know, tend to shy away from forums like this after a while is that we're done with it.  Our issues are over, we're living normal lives like normal people and it's not something we think about daily, weekly or necessarily even monthly. 

Personally, I leave the boards for a bit because I get sick of the same old pre or very, very early transition topics.  I get sick of playing Google and being pumped as an information clearinghouse.  At some point I also need to benefit from being here or it's pointless to spend my time replying to post.  There's also a huge amount of attitude and jealousy that gets projected when you're commenting from the other side of the void, so to speak. 

I don't feel like social transition happens after physical transition-- if they're not happening simultaneously, are you hiding in a cave?

Quote from: Logan Erik on December 30, 2011, 12:08:37 PM
Male Assigned At Birth, Female Assigned At Birth, same as AMAB and AFAB (Assigned Male etc.)

Holy crap.  This is getting just plain ridiculous.

Quote from: Mister on December 30, 2011, 04:23:44 PM
Holy crap.  This is getting just plain ridiculous.

+1

I don't think there'll ever be such a thing as being politically correct enough, to suit some people. Mustn't offend this person, mustn't offend that person... maybe we shouldn't speak at all?

Kidding. Sort of.