I have a lot of time on my hands. My movements are quite limited these days.

Anyway, I've been getting into online gaming. You play characters, in fantasy settings. These generally have 'magic' abilities and your character destroys monstors and baddies.

All harmless fun. I've had a few. Some really good, some terrible.

A few months ago, my niece said she was playing a game called World of Warcraft. Basically, it's the usual fantasy setting, but paid for so it's really quite interesting. Graphics, seneriaos and so on.

I've just unloaded the entire program and won't be playing any more. Some people, quite a lot of people frankly, take it too seriously. I found myself playing in a dungeon, with a group, today, only to discover that one had installed an addon to monitor the relative input of each player. Over the past few weeks I've been playing, I've had people exploding with an incredible series of expletives, because of some minor slight they think I did.

That's just sick. These things are suppose to be fun.

I did discuss this with my niece, who seems to be an almost every day, inspite of being recently married and a mother of a baby who is now a small toddler.

She just can't see it. How can I not take it seriously?

She added that, apparently, some Korean players are actually earning money by playing. Presumably through side bets. I'm suppose to be tolerant of other cultures.

Frankly, If they expect me to be tolerant of their culture then they should be equally tolerant of mine.

Life isn't meant to be take seriously. It's a farce.

Then I tried to uninstall the thing. It's a huge set of files. amounting to about 30Gb. I clicked uninstall and it claimed it had done so. I checked and discovered it had left 26 Gb of files! I've still to search my registry.

Are these people serious?

That's like that hate forum I was on. Everyone was so mean about it. If you can't enjoy your hate then move on geez

Yeah, you're definitely right.

Pleased I had a good rant. But even more pleased I didn't try to stay. It was, frankly, making me depressed.

The entire nation of S. Korea is lamenting a recent suicide of a middle school student, asking causes of teen violence and trying to find measures to prevent it. Among several factors is the internet game.

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2011122923088
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20111227-318326.html

Despite the huge number of addicted teenagers and increasing trend of game-related violence. the government virtually does nothing to regulate the game industry, because they believe game companies contribute to boosting the economy by exporting their products abroad, or through the internet.

My eldest son, a middle school student, is also addicted to the internet game. I even tried to remove PCs from my home, but he can play games in other places, and coax or even threaten me in order to play games. He says to me that every boys play games here, and why not him. In order to make friends, he needs to play games, because the internet game is a most important topic among those kids. For these reasons, I could not prevent him from playing internet games.

I think the computer game is a new strain of epidemic threatening survival of human species in the near future. It is comparable to  drug addiction.

Barbie~~

I agree that games can have addictive properties, but I think it's more than that. I think for some kids it's the only way ton escape a life that they are unhappy with; a world where they are in control, where they can (potentially) be liked when no one else seems to like them, a world where things are less complicated. I honestly think that there are a lot of people who retreat into technology in one form or another, be it TV, computers, whatever, and it's because there's not a hell of a lot to live for in the 'real world' and that's the bigger issue in my opinion.

It's not the games, it's the internet!

Done some more thinking.

One of the things I find with this game in particular are the values it is imparting. for example.

Right at the beginning, a starter character is sent to clear out some creatures that are apparently on the edge of some territory. It turns out these creatures are refugees. As they are being destroyed they call out, Where are we suppose to go? and We have nowhere else to go?.

Frankly, it was reminiscent of descriptions of the pogroms, the clearances of Palestine and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans.

Yes, I really should have left then. I seriously thought about it, but my niece had paid the fees and I was reluctant to let that go to waste.

That and so many others, seem to be examples of values being instilled in people. I use to try to avoid some sort of tasks. I stopped attacking creatures that pleaded for their lives for example.

But the more I think about the whole issue here the more I realise that we are effectively handing over an incredibly powerful tool for attitude manipulation to people we know nothing about.

Though I have to admit, I have stopped playing because of the rudeness of some players. I do wish I could claim some moral superiority. Sadly, no.

Quote from: fionabell on December 30, 2011, 06:24:19 PM
It's not the games, it's the internet!

I agree with Fiona, it is the internet and its connectivity that makes the games addicting. My son plays World of Warcraft endlessly and I asked him what it would be like without the internet and his reply was "why bother"

Quote from: spacial on December 30, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
Done some more thinking.

One of the things I find with this game in particular are the values it is imparting. for example.

Right at the beginning, a starter character is sent to clear out some creatures that are apparently on the edge of some territory. It turns out these creatures are refugees. As they are being destroyed they call out, Where are we suppose to go? and We have nowhere else to go?.

Frankly, it was reminiscent of descriptions of the pogroms, the clearances of Palestine and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans.

Yes, I really should have left then. I seriously thought about it, but my niece had paid the fees and I was reluctant to let that go to waste.

That and so many others, seem to be examples of values being instilled in people. I use to try to avoid some sort of tasks. I stopped attacking creatures that pleaded for their lives for example.

But the more I think about the whole issue here the more I realise that we are effectively handing over an incredibly powerful tool for attitude manipulation to people we know nothing about.

Though I have to admit, I have stopped playing because of the rudeness of some players. I do wish I could claim some moral superiority. Sadly, no.

Sort of like my pre-internet games like cops & robbers, cowboys & indians - when I thought about it these types of games were encouraged (I guess) and they were all about shooting and killing people.

What do others think?

I do get concerned with the values and morals that many games present. We know that people get desensitized by continual exposure to 'stuff'. And while I don't wish to be seen as an old fuddy duddy, I do get concerned that people start to live their lives based on the rules they have learned from such games. With Internet access and the down sizing of the world together with better communication you would think that there would be more tolerance to people. But it often seems the opposite.

I have a work colleague who found out that she had ended up playing on line games for the entire weekday she has off. She says she had not realised how addicted she had become. That is worrying. In Australia 'pokies' slot machines, are a major source of income for clubs and pubs etc. The money mainly comes from gambling addicts, who loose their entire savings, house, steal money and keep on going. So people do get addicted to this sort of stuff.

It is a worry.

JMO
Cindy

Were you Horde or Alliance? I used to play WoW, and I too would avoid or intentionally fail at quests that expected me to do ethically disturbing things. I was a disc priest healer, and so I was very much in demand for dungeons and raids and pvp, and I got lots of vicious and vile flak when I didn't perform perfectly. The social scene in that game is harsh and crass. I did find that it's better on rp servers, where everything is sillier and calmer. Still people take that game too seriously.

I take your point Felix. But as I said, my principal concern was the way some simply take it too seriously. It's suppose to be fun. If a few have resorted to professional playing with side bets and such, they are actually breaking the rules.

Incidentely, I played a number of different characters for both sides. But principally a Darnaean shadow priest, and an elven magic user.

But I walked away because I don't see any point in dealing with people who take it seriously.

melissa and Cindy

I think I understand where you're coming from. Though I tend to think that board games and such were more occasional. In some sports, the observers do seem to have developed cultural differences which can even affect society as a whole. While football doesn't seem to be as popular in the US as it is in the rest of the world,  it certainly has encouraged the development of very violent rivalries.

The nearest equivalent I can think of were board games, claimed to be promoted among children during the German Nazi era, Jews and humans, or Communists and humans. That may have been a fabrication though. I've also heard it claimed that Russian/Chinese/N Korean children are given games such as Capitalist and workers. That Israeli children are give some called Sand Rats. We perhaps need to take some claims with a pinch of salt.

I don't really believe that there is any sort of Intent with WoW, more a carelessness of attitude. However much it may resemble pogroms or ethnic cleansing, it was probably more unfortunate. But for the company to admit that now and rectify, might leave it open to a load of hysterical criticism.

Whatever, the consequences of these sort of notions, would seem to be important when we consider the number of otherwise intelegent people who are regularly driven to quite insane acts of vandalism and aggression, even murder, by the rivalries they are encouraged to adopt from Football.

But after thinking some more, perhaps it isn't quite as serious as it might at first seem. After all, most followers and observers of Football are not violent and aggressive as a result.

Censorship is so easy, yet so ultimately self defeating.

But I know what you're saying Cindy, with seemingly intelegent adults becoming so addicted. Especially to gambling, even when they know they can never regain what they've lost they still continue for the buzz.

But they do generally present themselves quite normally afterwards. So perhaps there isn't a lot to worry about after all.

That just leaves my personal reluctance to find ways of dealing with overly serious types who like to lose their tempers all the time. 

I'm not exactly sure I had a point.

I will emphatically agree with you that getting that upset over a video game is a little disturbing. I don't feel comfortable with people who regularly take any game that seriously without questioning it.

The addictive qualities are interesting. I played WoW mostly during a period of my life when I was recovering from a series of hospitalizations and learning to walk again (and lol I had a working laptop). It took my mind off the pain and gave me something to do other than read books. I had friends in the game that I talked to and got to know, and that was nice. But I had a friend I knew in person who started to play, and he played ALL THE TIME and began obsessing over it. It began to wreck his life, and he eventually shook it off like you'd shake off a nightmare.

Quote from: spacial on December 30, 2011, 01:02:25 PM
World of Warcraft

Well, there's your problem!

You were playing an online multiplayer game.  In other words, you were probably playing with a bunch of people whom YOU DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW, even if you are in the same guild as them.  You forget the three rules of the internet:

1)  The internet is serious business.

2)  The internet is really serious business.

3)  Online games are a job, not a hobby.


Why do you think I rarely play online games anymore, even though they are my favorite type of game?  It's because a lot of players are complete douchebags, and they aren't interested in changing that fact.  You have to WORK to find a group of players worth gaming with.  If you are playing in some random PUG, you really shouldn't be surprised when someone yells at you for using a level 1 Divine Pyrogram spell rather than using a level 3 Pyrogram spell because doing the latter would result in 5% more DPS and a slightly less chance of getting interrupted.

Also, if you are playing PvP, you should expect EVERYONE to be complete douchebags with a small number of exceptions.

I've also been reminded, today, that the niece who paid my fee, plays herself, is in the same guild as me, (she having put me into it), and has introduced me to almost everyone as her uncle. I know she is an incredibly popular player with those who know her. Even if I wanted to, I can't compete with that.

Coupled with that, I've also realised I've been walking on egg shells somewhat, because my right arm is actually less important to me than my niece's feelings.

So I perhaps made a bit of a rod for my own back here!

But I do like your points Gnawty.