I apologize if this isn't the best section for this, but it bothers me a lot and I'm never sure how or when to talk about it.

I live in a large low rent building. Not all of us here are automatically bad or dangerous people, but there is a pretty high rate of domestic troubles, mental illness, drug use, and the general insanity of youth. And old age.

My former next door neighbors (of which I've had many) did nothing but fight and have sex. I thought it was funny. They never got too over the top with it, though. They just made noise, really.

My new neighbors in the same apartment do the same thing, but I'm worried. They take it too far. The guy hurts the girl. We (another neighbor and I) called the cops on them last night, because she was crying and screaming for help. I'm not ever sure though what crosses that line. If I just hear furniture being thrown, is that enough to intervene? If she cries, should I do something? When I see the guy, should I question him? As it is I kinda glare at him and leave it at that. Sometimes I knock on the door, but they don't answer. How much is this my problem, and how much am I crossing boundaries by getting involved?

Felix,

This is your problem but be careful how much to get involved. Don't confront HIM try to catch her alone and simply express your concern and support . . . Don't threaten or let on to either WHO is calling the cops but if the ruckus continues they will need to drag his ass off and you definitely don't want someone resenting, coming after YOU if that turns out to be the case.

Chances are BOTH will have to find new place to go so helpful diplomacy is best. Best case scenario is she seeks help on her own and decides to get away from him by herself. There's a million temp shelters for women but for men? Only JAIL . . .

I doubt I have anything to add other than to agree with Kiera. Confronting him would probably be a bad idea. It might even be possible that approaching her could be risky, too, so tread lightly there.

But violence in that apartment could spread to yours and others. If it sounds violent, you probably should call the police.

Take care.

I was careful to try not to make it obvious who was calling. I think I'm the main suspect if they were to take a guess, as I'm next door and currently the only one in the building with a kid.

It didn't occur to me to speak to her alone, mainly because I present as male, and if I'm passing it could get her in a lot of trouble to hang out by herself with a guy who isn't her boyfriend.

And he's a pretty scary dude (short, stocky, works out, dresses like a jock, always looks pissed off), so I am trying to be careful and diplomatic. My glaring at him is probably too confrontational. If my daughter notices the noise that comes from his house (it's only been late at night so far), though, it'll frighten her. And I don't know how to proceed from there.

I tend not to complain to management on anybody because of the housing issue you mention, Kiera. If I cause the guy to get evicted, how does that affect their lives?

How often does this happen? I mean, it's never acceptable that it happens, but if it's constant abuse and it seems to be escalating (at least from what you can tell), the girl's life could be in danger...of course, this is the worst case scenario, but it's better to have the guy arrested for being abusive than manslaughter or murder. Also, it's somehow more likely for your daughter to find out about someone dying from what is going on your apartment than a neighbor she doesn't know getting evicted for acting out inappropriately. I wouldn't question this guy about what he's doing, but if it sounds bad, you should call the police and they will investigate from there. Like others have said, if you get involved and the problem doesn't get fixed soon enough, you could put yourself in danger. Also, if he's paranoid, he could think his wife/girlfriend has been confiding in the neighbors and he could become more aggressive towards her. If you call the police, you could even make a noise complaint or tell them that they should say its just a "noise complaint" to keep the girl safe, but confide in them as what you think is going on and that they should look into it.; you can also say that you are concerned for your daughter's safety and the police will likely sympathize with you.

I've been around a number of abusive people and I definitely wouldn't confront him. Oftentimes abuse is about control, a desperate need to cling to it in any form, and if you appear to be the person taking that away or challenging it, I can see him completely flying off the handle. Calling the police when you hear banging, yelling, fighting, seems to be appropriate as he won't know who called (and it could be a number of people doing it). And if she doesn't seem to be getting out, and you see her on her own, maybe discreetly mentioning it and some resources.

Sadly, she probably won't leave on her own. One of my classmates works at a domestic violence centre as a counsellor, and she says 9 out of 10 times the girl either goes back to the guy who hurt her or finds someone just like him. I'd still call the police if I were in your position because as (I think) Jason said, it's better for him to be arrested for abuse than murder.

I wouldn't talk to him or her. There's nothing you can do to persuade her she's in danger or to leave him. And as was mentioned above, you could actually make things worse for her if you were to speak to either one of them. I wouldn't glare at him either. You may need to call the police at some point and it's probably better they don't know who did it.

Jason, they just moved in like a week ago, and it seems like they fight every night. And my daughter probably wouldn't find out about either eviction or murder unless she was awake and listening or watching while the drama was going down. What I'm worried about with her is that she'll wake up and hear the arguing. Conflict freaks her out. The furniture throwing and thumping probably wouldn't bother her, because people often move in and out in the night here, but if she heard it in connection with screaming that would be different.

I did speak to the police the other day, and just described what I heard. They were very nice and they also told me not to speak to these people. I had to go downstairs and let them in the building, and they let me get back to my own apartment before coming up, which was nice. So I wasn't seen, and they really were making enough noise that lots of neighbors heard it and could've been the ones who called.

Incidentally, I gave the cops my chosen first name and legal last name, and it was fine.

One thing that creeps me out is that I've never actually seen the girl's face. The guy swaggers around like he runs the whole building, and the girl rarely comes out of the apartment, and keeps her head down when she does. I guess that's not creepy, really. Just sad.

Hi Felix,

I am sorry that this is happening to you!
I would talk to the building management and see what they say regarding the "noise disturbance".
There are two different things going on in my opinion. One is the noise and the other is violence.
It they had a party and just had a bit louder music your sense would be different than when you hear someone screaming for help and you clearly hear physical abuse.
And that scream can be not as loud as a noisy party but it is more disturbing than 20 people singing next door.

I would also talk to the cops in regards to what can or shall you do regarding both, the noise and the violence.
I have a feeling you are fairly tolerant when it comes to a bit noisy or crazy neighborhood so any time you feel disturbed for what feels to you like a bit too long or too much I'd call the cops and/or building management. It is possible that the management would talk to them instead of the cops at times. Also if the management gets involved you have another official representation in front of the cops.
You have a daughter and you have absolute right to demand physical and emotional safety for her!
If you get apprehended by the guy for calling the cops in the future I'd simply say "I mind my own business and you mind yours" and move on. You don't have to justify anything to him in order to be honest or stand up to him or something. If he gets into your face I'd call the cops again without waiting. The sooner he gets as many cop calls as possible the sooner he'll be gone if he is heading that route.

I hope this gets resolved soon for you!

Quote from: envie on December 31, 2011, 06:18:50 PM
Hi Felix,

I am sorry that this is happening to you!
I would talk to the building management and see what they say regarding the "noise disturbance".
There are two different things going on in my opinion. One is the noise and the other is violence.
It they had a party and just had a bit louder music your sense would be different than when you hear someone screaming for help and you clearly hear physical abuse.
And that scream can be not as loud as a noisy party but it is more disturbing than 20 people singing next door.

I would also talk to the cops in regards to what can or shall you do regarding both, the noise and the violence.
I have a feeling you are fairly tolerant when it comes to a bit noisy or crazy neighborhood so any time you feel disturbed for what feels to you like a bit too long or too much I'd call the cops and/or building management. It is possible that the management would talk to them instead of the cops at times. Also if the management gets involved you have another official representation in front of the cops.
You have a daughter and you have absolute right to demand physical and emotional safety for her!
If you get apprehended by the guy for calling the cops in the future I'd simply say "I mind my own business and you mind yours" and move on. You don't have to justify anything to him in order to be honest or stand up to him or something. If he gets into your face I'd call the cops again without waiting. The sooner he gets as many cop calls as possible the sooner he'll be gone if he is heading that route.

I hope this gets resolved soon for you!

Thank you. No I don't really care about nonviolent noise. Life is life. If it affects my daughter's sleep I start to care, but it rarely does. Silence would probably be more likely to wake her up.

Incidentally, we have no management at the moment. The building is owned by a construction company, and the manager they subcontracted just quit a few days ago. I will start keeping my phone in my pocket even when I leave the house to pee, so if I have any runins I have a better weapon than a knife.

Off topic, but you leave the house to pee? 

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 31, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Off topic, but you leave the house to pee? 

Lolya. I live in a converted hotel that was built for a World's Fair, in a time before indoor plumbing, and not meant to last more than a few months. If you've ever seen The Shining, my building looks like that, but smaller and shabbier. There are some communal bathrooms in each wing.

And I just noticed my overuse of the word "incidentally."

Just vote against immigration. Then the wages will slowly go up and housing will slowly become more affordable. Then there's less reason them fighting so often and so hard or even having to stay together(because they could more easily afford individual places). Treat the cause not the symptom. People are only people after all

Quote from: fionabell on December 31, 2011, 07:30:05 PM
Just vote against immigration. Then the wages will slowly go up and housing will slowly become more affordable. Then there's less reason them fighting so often and so hard or even having to stay together(because they could more easily afford individual places). Treat the cause not the symptom. People are only people after all

Lolwow you just abstracted the heck out of it, didn't you?

Wages in Portland are already pretty high. The housing situation didn't get so weird (from my perspective) until the real estate bubble burst, and honestly most people in my building aren't incredibly functional no matter what the economy is like.

I'm very pro-immigration, not because i think it's good for the country (I've lived in mexican ghettos, and I see the problems), but because I know what it's like to want a better life, and to need to do unpopular things to get it. And because I've known immigrants, both legal and illegal, and they were almost all more sincere, hardworking, and honest than I am. And I'm those things more than most people I know. I don't think reducing immigration will have a lot of effect on how much this fratboy beats his girlfriend.

An immigrant following this thread!
Thanks fionabell.

Oh, actually i'm white may be you didn't aim at me after all.

Quote from: envie on December 31, 2011, 08:36:22 PM
An immigrant following this thread!
Thanks fionabell.

Oh, actually i'm white may be you didn't aim at me after all.

So I'm racist because I'm aware of the poverty and hardship immigration is causing in an already overpopulated country?

Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

Quote from: Felix on December 31, 2011, 07:42:51 PM
Lolwow you just abstracted the heck out of it, didn't you?

Wages in Portland are already pretty high. The housing situation didn't get so weird (from my perspective) until the real estate bubble burst, and honestly most people in my building aren't incredibly functional no matter what the economy is like.

I'm very pro-immigration, not because i think it's good for the country (I've lived in mexican ghettos, and I see the problems), but because I know what it's like to want a better life, and to need to do unpopular things to get it. And because I've known immigrants, both legal and illegal, and they were almost all more sincere, hardworking, and honest than I am. And I'm those things more than most people I know. I don't think reducing immigration will have a lot of effect on how much this fratboy beats his girlfriend.

Wow . That's a pretty negligent attitude for someone with a child, having to share a bathroom with a whole lot of wife beaters. But fair enough it was definitely a side track on my behalf. As always I'm just looking for excuses to promote common sense.

Quote from: fionabell on January 01, 2012, 06:26:05 AM
Wow . That's a pretty negligent attitude for someone with a child, having to share a bathroom with a whole lot of wife beaters. But fair enough it was definitely a side track on my behalf. As always I'm just looking for excuses to promote common sense.

I think Felix is just trying to raise his Daughter in difficult circumstances. Times are hard and you have to do what you can to feed, house and protect your family. Unfortunately, the abuse going on in that place is definitely too much. If Felix can hear all that going on, so can his child. And that, is never a good thing.
I think calling the police next time would be a good idea. However, do you know if they will take the husband away automatically? or does the spouse need to press charges? Here in Indiana, they will take the accused away to jail without the spouse pressing charges. They did that to one of my brother-in-law's last year.

And just let the poor girl know that there is someone trying to lookout for her. she may take comfort in that. Also, perhaps have the address and phone number to the nearest women's shelter handy.

Good luck. ^_^

Quote from: fionabell on January 01, 2012, 06:20:40 AM
So I'm racist because I'm aware of the poverty and hardship immigration is causing in an already overpopulated country?

Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

Oh by the way, I'm an immigrant. I've been here for 11 years now. Don't blame immigrants for this countries failings. You might want to look to those morons in washington you elected. They are Americans and it was you who helped get them into office, not some illegal immigrant.
And if Team America, World Police would quit trying to be Billy Badass and just stop to sweep it's own back porch then just maybe they could solve many of these issues that really need dealt with.

Now then, back to our regular broadcast....

Quote from: Keaira on January 01, 2012, 06:42:14 AM

Good luck. ^_^Oh by the way, I'm an immigrant. I've been here for 11 years now.

I won't be bullied. I stand by my anti-immigration view.

QuoteDon't blame immigrants for this countries failings.

I don't

QuoteYou might want to look to those morons in washington you elected.

I do. I also look to people like you and Felix that defend their tyranny.

QuoteThey are Americans and it was you who helped get them into office, not some illegal immigrant.

I didn't mention "illegal" .And I would never vote for a major political party.

Quote
And if Team America, World Police would quit trying to be Billy Badass and just stop to sweep it's own back porch then just maybe they could solve many of these issues that really need dealt with.

I agree and  that's precisely what I'm doing right now. We need to halt immigration, not attack other countries.

I apologize to Felix for making judgments and assumptions on him. It's was horrible of me but He's got to look after himself and his child now, not try to fix the world by destroying his own country. Felix, I hope you can forgive me. Contrary to what your masters have told you I'm not the bad guy(and no, thought police, I'm not referring to myself in the masculine).

I think immigration (legal and otherwise) in the US is largely different from Australia, both politically as well as culturally.


Though I'm sure the Aborigines wish your relatives had all taken that anti-immigrant deal more seriously a few generations ago.