The threads:

"When did you realize you're not really gay, but trans?"

"if you knew you couldnt pass, would you have transitioned anyway?"

"who else used to be a gay man before transitioning?"

"i'm ugly as a guy, i m going to be a really ugly woman, i have no hope left"

plus few myths from "The "Myth Vs. Reality about Transgender People"

All those responses got me to thinking about this question:

If you knew the road down the future had two forks:

1) you could be a very hot gay guy that everyone wants to sleep with/date or....

2) you could be a very ugly hetero woman that no one wants to sleep with/date or....

Which fork would you take?

(and don't give me cock and bull about your sex drive being low or killed by hormones that you don't care about sleeping with anybody, anyway! I saw that one  coming!  )

I'd rather be an unattractive woman.

#2

I'm not transitioning to get away from the type of guy I used to be...I'm transitioning to get away from being a guy in general (indirectly; directly I am transitioning to become the woman I feel I am.  Thus if that means being unattractive, so be it).

Quote from: Lily on January 01, 2012, 03:23:48 PM
I'd rather be an unattractive woman.

This. ^_^

So you d rather sit home lonely night after night with no phone calls or emails from anybody and staring in the mirror, thinking, "Damn, I m ugly as hell"

than....

going out night after night with plenty of friends and having any hot gay man you could have and staring in the mirror thinking, "Damn, I m hot as hell"

I don't believe you ladies, lol. unless you enjoy that kind of boredom, loneliness, and depression

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 03:55:20 PM
So you d rather sit home lonely night after night with no phone calls or emails from anybody and staring in the mirror, thinking, "Damn, I m ugly as hell"
...
I don't believe you ladies, lol. unless you enjoy that kind of boredom, loneliness, and depression

One does not need to be physically attractive to live a happy, fulfilling and eventful life.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 03:19:54 PM
The threads:

"When did you realize you're not really gay, but trans?"

"if you knew you couldnt pass, would you have transitioned anyway?"

"who else used to be a gay man before transitioning?"

"i'm ugly as a guy, i m going to be a really ugly woman, i have no hope left"

plus few myths from "The "Myth Vs. Reality about Transgender People"

All those responses got me to thinking about this question:

If you knew the road down the future had two forks:

1) you could be a very hot gay guy that everyone wants to sleep with/date or....

2) you could be a very ugly hetero woman that no one wants to sleep with/date or....

Which fork would you take?

(and don't give me cock and bull about your sex drive being low or killed by hormones that you don't care about sleeping with anybody, anyway! I saw that one  coming!  )

Kia Ora Ms Daz,

So are you saying there's no such thing as 'asexuality' ?

Metta Zenda

I actually posted one of the threads above... its an interesting question to ask.

I don't think I'm a good-looking guy, and I think my idea of good-looking guy means can easily be transformed into a woman.  I want to be that 15-year-old boy that I once was, not this awkward, unattractive 26-year-old man I am now.

I think we all really do crave to be liked, to be wanted, to be desirable.  If a pretty girl came up to me and flirted with me I wouldn't mind it.  It would be uncomfortable at the same time because it was affirmation from another person that I looked like a guy.

If I was going to be a guy I'd want to look like Emile Hirsch.  I  think he's beautiful:



In fact, its weird but I'd kill to look like that... because I know that in general I don't think I'm a pretty person...male or female.

I don't think I'd like to be a "hot" guy, more so beautiful... I'd want to date a hot guy not be one.

So to answer your question, I think that I would probably choose to live as a passable woman and that would be my life but passable means completely passable - I do not want to go through life looking like a man in a wig and a dress.  Even crossdressers don't want to look like that.

You see, everybody wants to be beautiful, and we're all fighting so hard.  I can't tolerate the images of me that I see now - whether they are in pictures or in the mirror because I hate them with a passion that consumes my entire being.  I just cannot bear the thought of people looking at me and seeing what I look like now because it's repulsive.  Yeah I'm hard on myself but I want to be beautiful, just like everybody else... I shouldn't be attacked for wanting what everybody in this world wants.  I wish I was one of those people that just didn't give a ->-bleeped-<-, that didn't care- but I'm tired of looking like this, I'm tired of being alone...

which makes me want to choose the first one, even though I know that's not being true to myself.

I think I would have the FFS, I would try my best with the makeup and the hair, I would take the time needed to transition properly and then I would just live the rest of my life as a woman and improve whatever I could, but if it means being ugly, then I guess I'm ugly.  You can only beat yourself over it for so long and I'm running out of beatings.  After a while, we need to move on from it.

If we happen to be beautiful, other people will see it.  We can't consciously control everything.  Trying to has turned me into an ugly person, a person that has no personality, that is obsessed with physical appearances, perfection, facial structures, and it is making me really ugly...

the answer that lies inside your heart, which is I'll be an ugly woman... but I'll go to bed at night knowing who I am, who gives a **** what the rest of the world thinks?.  At the end of the day, its just you anyway.

Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 01, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
Being attractive and living a happy, fulfilling and eventful life are by far not exclusive to each other.

Very true. Plus the two choices aren't remotely equal. It's basically "would you rather be unhappy and ugly or pretty and happy?" A true comparison would be something like "would you rather be pretty and alone or unattractive and surrounded by friends?" That being said, I'd still honestly choose to be an unattractive woman. Partially because I am transitioning away from being a guy, so why the heck would I choose to be one all over again? Plus, I'm not shallow and I don't need to be the hottest thing in the room to feel fulfilled. I feel pretty fulfilled now, and I have almost no friends and no social life. What's wrong with not wanting to be the kind of person that's constantly out partying?

Quote from: sysm29 on January 01, 2012, 04:10:33 PM

So to answer your question, I think that I would probably choose to live as a passable woman and that would be my life but passable means completely passable - I do not want to go through life looking like a man in a wig and a dress.  Even crossdressers don't want to look like that.

Even if you have natural hair, makeup, etc...People are still gonna think "trans". Hate to burst your bubble. Makeup and hair is a huge amount of work. It takes me about an hour to get ready everyday. I was a very very feminine boy...but to look "damn she's hot" takes time.

If you want to be attractive and have people notice you, you have to WERQK. That means finding out what makeup works for you, what hair works, etc...that is even to get a basic date with a ->-bleeped-<-. There are many factors like what you looked like as a boy, hormones, etc. Your personality also accounts for a lot when appealing to men.

Simply putting on female clothes and expecting to pass or look attractive is unrealistic. Even subtle makeup goes along way.

Quote from: 30kps on January 01, 2012, 04:11:34 PM
Very true. Plus the two choices aren't remotely equal. It's basically "would you rather be unhappy and ugly or pretty and happy?" A true comparison would be something like "would you rather be pretty and alone or unattractive and surrounded by friends?" That being said, I'd still honestly choose to be an unattractive woman. Partially because I am transitioning away from being a guy, so why the heck would I choose to be one all over again? Plus, I'm not shallow and I don't need to be the hottest thing in the room to feel fulfilled. I feel pretty fulfilled now, and I have almost no friends and no social life. What's wrong with not wanting to be the kind of person that's constantly out partying?

I didnt say you had to do it all over again - i meant from the outset prior to even transitioning , like you had a crystal ball and could see your future -

Yourself as a hot stud on the phone and texting all the time

Yourself as a fugly chick with a dick sitting in a corner all the time

You understand what I mean?

Quote from: sysm29 on January 01, 2012, 04:10:33 PM
the answer that lies inside your heart, which is I'll be an ugly woman... but I'll go to bed at night knowing who I am, who gives a **** what the rest of the world thinks?.  At the end of the day, its just you anyway.

My heart or YOUR heart? 

Quote from: Zenda on January 01, 2012, 04:06:26 PM
Kia Ora Ms Daz,

So are you saying there's no such thing as 'asexuality' ?

Metta Zenda

I acknowledge asexuality - but I was saying , given that you had a normal healthy sex drive and innate need for affection/sex/socialization - which fork would you take? Do you understand what I mean?

Honestly, we are all human beings and we need affection from others... i cannot fathom being so ugly that no one wants me and i lie alone in bed night after night to wallow in my misery... you know that babies who were raised by parents who dont hug or touch tend to become cold and unfeeling adults

Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 01, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
One does not need to be physically attractive to live a happy, fulfilling and eventful life.

True that, but there is still a correlation between apperances and quality of life - beautiful or handsome people tend to have it better and more doors opened for them than ugly ones

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 04:27:35 PM
I didnt say you had to do it all over again - i meant from the outset prior to even transitioning , like you had a crystal ball and could see your future -

Yourself as a hot stud on the phone and texting all the time

Yourself as a fugly chick with a dick sitting in a corner all the time

You understand what I mean?

I see what you mean, but A) it's an unequal comparison, since one is hugely positive and the other is hugely negative B) it comes off as horribly shallow and C) as a lesbian, I have to choose the second one by default since I have no interest in the male body or men at all.

And as for the fact that appearance and quality of life are correlated, that doesn't mean it is a good thing. What it says is that people are shallow and mostly only care about looks. By no means should we actually embrace something as perverse as that.

Quote from: 30kps on January 01, 2012, 04:58:31 PM
I see what you mean, but A) it's an unequal comparison, since one is hugely positive and the other is hugely negative B) it comes off as horribly shallow and C) as a lesbian, I have to choose the second one by default since I have no interest in the male body or men at all.

And as for the fact that appearance and quality of life are correlated, that doesn't mean it is a good thing. What it says is that people are shallow and mostly only care about looks. By no means should we actually embrace something as perverse as that.

Yes, it is a purposelfuly superficial and shallow situation that I posted. Yes, it is based solely on appearances.

Like I told Zenda, disregard for a moment about how high or low your sex drive is and your sexual orientation -

I guess this thread could be pared down to the very bare bones - "Is it better to be gay and popular or trans and unpopular?"  Since transition is based on changing on how you appear to others and being gay doesnt require transition, which would it be worth it?

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 03:55:20 PM
So you d rather sit home lonely night after night with no phone calls or emails from anybody and staring in the mirror, thinking, "Damn, I m ugly as hell"

than....

going out night after night with plenty of friends and having any hot gay man you could have and staring in the mirror thinking, "Damn, I m hot as hell"

I don't believe you ladies, lol. unless you enjoy that kind of boredom, loneliness, and depression

Transition is not about how attractive you will be or how much sex you will have it's about being happy with how you look and live your life.

Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 01, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
One does not need to be physically attractive to live a happy, fulfilling and eventful life.

Totally the truth.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 04:33:30 PM
True that, but there is still a correlation between apperances and quality of life - beautiful or handsome people tend to have it better and more doors opened for them than ugly ones

And you are assuming that people need those "doors" opened for them to be happy and fulfilled in life.

  I'd say option #2 as well. I'm not doing this for sexual purposes i'm doing this because I identify as female not male or even a gay male. Now don't get me wrong I want sex (who doesn't? lol) but it's not the driving force behind my transition.  If sex is what you're after then transition is probably not the best road to take in my opinion. 

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 01, 2012, 04:33:30 PM
True that, but there is still a correlation between apperances and quality of life - beautiful or handsome people tend to have it better and more doors opened for them than ugly ones

As far as the original false dichotomy, I'll say this: I passed on that life once; I will pass on it twice.

As far as the boatload of assumptions behind it, I'll just point to the many of us who have actually lived the charmed life you describe and still transitioned anyway.

Quote from: raya on January 01, 2012, 05:17:13 PM
As far as the original false dichotomy, I'll say this: I passed on that life once; I will pass on it twice.

As far as the boatload of assumptions behind it, I'll just point to the many of us who have actually lived the charmed life you describe and still transitioned anyway.

Yeah, that is what I am wondering - who could have been gay and popular but chose to transition anyway .., because from what I see and understand, most of the trans women were heterosexual prior to transitioning, so i m not surprised that homosexuality is unappealing to them.