Quote from: fionabell on December 22, 2011, 02:08:39 PM
England declared war on Germany. Yes it was a great society. The workers were getting great pay and affordable housing. They invented the personal car too, and the motorway. Killing millions of people, last time I checked it was Winston Churchill and Stalin and Roosevelt who have the higher death tolls than the Nazis.America kills and imprisons a far higher percentage of people than cuba does. And who knows what it is, because with the trade embargo that America has on it how can it possibly be what the Cubans want it to be?

+1

I am impressed by all this mixture of historical ignorance with discrimation.
Especially because it comes from this community.

If nazis would have won we would be burning in big gassifiers and crematories, and no, no other nation did the same. Germany declared war on Poland. Russian stalinism had nothing to do with socialism, just with dictatorship, as Cuba experience, as Libia. Nothing to be proud of. Really. Big masses of people being poor, few corruped politicians, this was tgeir model.

Too much ignorance and discriminatin ( even against muoticultural society, based on what i dont know, maybe people build their little self esteem not in what they can do, probably because they can't do much, but in hate against other people, that have the only guilt of being different )

Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on December 22, 2011, 03:46:20 PM
I am impressed by all this mixture of historical ignorance with discrimation.
Especially because it comes from this community.

If nazis would have won we would be burning in big gassifiers and crematories, and no, no other nation did the same. Germany declared war on Poland. Russian stalinism had nothing to do with socialism, just with dictatorship, as Cuba experience, as Libia. Nothing to be proud of. Really. Big masses of people being poor, few corruped politicians, this was tgeir model.

Too much ignorance and discriminatin ( even against muoticultural society, based on what i dont know, maybe people build their little self esteem not in what they can do, probably because they can't do much, but in hate against other people, that have the only guilt of being different )

The nazis had something against feminine gays and trans. The reason they did is because the SA, the brown shirts were led by macho gays who had the same prejudice against "queens" then as they do today.

The SA were a private army of thugs funded by money embezzled from the military by an German officer. They are responsible for the thuggish Nazi image we have today. Their numbers were greater than the German National army at that point. It was on their display of force that the Nazis rose to power. And they were gay.

They were headed by an ex ww1 veteran called Ernst Rohm. He was openly Gay and the leadership in the SA was completely macho homo.They used to beat up along with communists and Jews, feminine gays and Transgender.

Hitler had them all killed on the night of the long knives.

I'm not saying the rest of the Nazis loved queens but you really should research the time before you assume what happened.

Btw Libyans were not poor, they were far better of than most western countries.

Nazi Germany was built on a Utopian dream, and couldn't have happened unless the population was forced into it. Not the sort of thing I'd like to be involved in myself, but neither is the current system we live in.    Btw I believe America today is far right of Nazi Germany in terms of social Darwinism. The economical model in America today is identical to the fascist economy model(which is not the same as Nazi Germany's because it wasn't true fascism).

Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on December 22, 2011, 03:46:20 PM
I am impressed by all this mixture of historical ignorance with discrimation.
Especially because it comes from this community.

If nazis would have won we would be burning in big gassifiers and crematories, and no, no other nation did the same. Germany declared war on Poland. Russian stalinism had nothing to do with socialism, just with dictatorship, as Cuba experience, as Libia. Nothing to be proud of. Really. Big masses of people being poor, few corruped politicians, this was tgeir model.

Too much ignorance and discriminatin ( even against muoticultural society, based on what i dont know, maybe people build their little self esteem not in what they can do, probably because they can't do much, but in hate against other people, that have the only guilt of being different )

My own country was worse regarding discrimination than Germany was at the time. You cant compare present day with that time! If Germany won we would not burn in ovens more than we do today.

So being against multiculturalism is hating other people? oh my you are seriously indoctrinated. I WANT diversety on this planet and you dont get that if you mix all of the different people. The only thing you will accomplish is to create a rootless and chaotic society! There is nothing good about multiculturalism, nothing! I respect all different kinds of people on this planet and they all have the right to live and prosper. But that dosent mean that we all should live under the same roof.

Many generations before me payed with blood sweat and tears to build up the wealthy nation I grew up in, it was something we now take for granted. Then we let in all the worlds people to use us and use our money and now we are getting poorer and poorer, I am now a second class citizen in my own country. Do you think that its ok? my son is worth less just because he is a ethnic swede. And I was told twice that I could not get the job I applied for because they preferred immigrants before us Swedes, even if my grades are more than good they would choose a less qualified person because of their ethnic origin.

If it would be the other way around people would cry rivers and protest. But discriminating whites is ok because we deserve genocide!


In my view everybody should be proud of what they are and their heritage. What in earth is wrong with that? please tell me that.

Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on December 22, 2011, 03:46:20 PM
I am impressed by all this mixture of historical ignorance with discrimation.
Especially because it comes from this community.

If nazis would have won we would be burning in big gassifiers and crematories, and no, no other nation did the same. Germany declared war on Poland. Russian stalinism had nothing to do with socialism, just with dictatorship, as Cuba experience, as Libia. Nothing to be proud of. Really. Big masses of people being poor, few corruped politicians, this was tgeir model.

Too much ignorance and discriminatin ( even against muoticultural society, based on what i dont know, maybe people build their little self esteem not in what they can do, probably because they can't do much, but in hate against other people, that have the only guilt of being different )

So Libya was really that bad? strange.. Because I know people who worked there for many years and they actually told me that people where happy and that it was a much better country before this so called revolution. Now there is killings going on in the streets and people are being afraid to go outside their homes. Khadaffi was killed in a way that I cant understand. Did you see the vid from the killing? they where like animals. Even if you are the most evil person on earth you deserve a trial. Libya was not tied to the bankers and that made them bad. They got bombed and now the get loans to rebuild their country, we havent seen that before have we?.. Yey freedom! Or? wait..


US, UN, EU etc are the bad guys. They are only doing things because of the money.

free-thinking communist

well let's have a good new year and stop talking about politic. It generates too  much nonsense...

I agree

Nazis were the good guy, they made friends everywhere they went
Italian's fascists too, we just tried to give pizzas and pasta everywhere
And also stalin was a good man, he still kept a teddy bear of when he was child with him
The real bad people were Churchill, Roosvelt shame on them, they attacked the poor germany because of envy
by the way, also Poland tried to invade Germany first, and so did France, and about hebrews, well their death was just casuality of war, indeed Churchill and Roosvelt killed many innocent people much more than Germany did, even Japan's people who did nothing, just made photos all the time.

And the worse is that history is repeating! Usa and Eu against Gheddafi, Saddam.... poor guys!!! Lybia was the richest country of the world! Indeed the only Gheddafi owned so many industries outside Lybia, especially in Itally, and he was the poorest of all of them, being in politic just for compassion, so you can guess the others Lybians how much rich they were, and Saddam...well he was a saint, gassifing his own cousin, just tring to make him happy, it was Usa who switched hilarious gas with nervine...

Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on January 02, 2012, 06:22:03 AM
well let's have a good new year and stop talking about politic. It generates too  much nonsense...

I agree

Nazis were the good guy, they made friends everywhere they went
Italian's fascists too, we just tried to give pizzas and pasta everywhere
And also stalin was a good man, he still kept a teddy bear of when he was child with him
The real bad people were Churchill, Roosvelt shame on them, they attacked the poor germany because of envy
by the way, also Poland tried to invade Germany first, and so did France, and about hebrews, well their death was just casuality of war, indeed Churchill and Roosvelt killed many innocent people much more than Germany did, even Japan's people who did nothing, just made photos all the time.

And the worse is that history is repeating! Usa and Eu against Gheddafi, Saddam.... poor guys!!! Lybia was the richest country of the world! Indeed the only Gheddafi owned so many industries outside Lybia, especially in Itally, and he was the poorest of all of them, being in politic just for compassion, so you can guess the others Lybians how much rich they were, and Saddam...well he was a saint, gassifing his own cousin, just tring to make him happy, it was Usa who switched hilarious gas with nervine...

It doesnt help when you switch the black and white thinking the other way around.

So you think that the US is the greater good? as said before, propaganda is a good way to get the people behind you and is also the most important weapon in a war.

Churchill hated Indians and only entered the war for Britans sake. He also gave Bomber Harris the go ahead to carpet bomb civilians. Churchill did say once that 'History will be very kind to me - I intend to write it'. He also supported the Soviet rape squads sent in to defile the women and children in the last days of the Third Reich. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand. Oh what a deliberation.


The Franklin Roosevelt government instructed its soldiers that marriage with the inferior Germans was absolutely forbidden, but those having illegitimate children by German women, whose husbands and boyfriends were conveniently dead or held as prisoners or slave laborers, could count on allowance money. And, according to Time magazine of September 17, 1945, the government provided these soldiers with an estimated 50 million condoms per month, and graphically instructed them as to their use. For all practical purposes, our soldiers were being told: "Teach these Germans a lesson -- and have a wonderful time!" Such were the great crusaders who brought "democracy" to Europe.

Under direct orders from Dwight Eisenhower, they killed more than a million German POWs. They looted 12 million people of their homes, goods, food, and even clothes and drove them from their homelands. They took one-fourth of their farmland, they took their ships and their factories and their farm implements and then told them to live by farming. They abused and starved to death more German babies than there ever were Jews in Germany. They raped and debauched hundreds of thousands of German, Austrian, and Hungarian girls and women from eight to eighty. They brought to their death five times as many Germans in one year of peace as died during five years of war.

Of course the Allies where the ultimate good guys..

And besides, Mussolini is not at all hated in Italy. Those who hate him are either communists or people who have swallowed all the anti-propaganda without question.

War is  a cruel thing i know.
What you continue to say is plain and simple, if German would have won we World would be a better place.

Instead I am just trying to make you see that, between all the contraddictions of Usa and British 1940's society, that fortunately time has solved letting us see and hope a better place, especially for us different people, these two countries along with resistence forces inside Italy and French, and with Russia, whose democracy is still a puzzle, have guaranteed us freedom and a little of self respect and identity.
Now you can add what you want, our democracy are still full of privilegies and sometimes very unfair, but totalitaristic regimes are based and founded just upon the idea of the negation of the citizen identity toward his appartenence to the nation, and can only live as long as they proclaim theyr hate on others (muslims, hebrews, christians, gay, transgender, polonian, french, americans, it really doesn't matter who or when ).
That's why luckily totalitarism is a thing of the past, and our next goal is try to improve democracy, allowing more respect for the people and less for the money.

As for Italy, you really know nothing about it, Mussolini memory is full of shame, and he is remembered with prode just by few naziskins or ignorant people here. Communism never took place in this country, luckily, and we had our trouble with right politicians tring to create a populistic regime (that was, in our case, like a totalitarism just based on the control of media and not on the control of police repression forces), it just led us to an unfair democracy and a closed society, from wich now we must move on.

By the way multiculturalism is a great resource, if you're not closed minded, all human history is luckily based on mixture of races, it is called evolution. It all depends if you just see the problems or the advantages, multiculturalism means more ideas, more need to improve, more competition, that if all the rules accepted, means a more dinamic society (that is basically why Usa in just 10 years won the second world war, become the leader of the world, and why now Cina wants to do the same). Democracy and capitalism balanced with rules is all we can hope for the future, unless we want to live in a shamefull past.

Well I think we may have to agree that we disagree.

And yes I do think that we would have had a better Europe if the communists lost. Because they are the ones who has been destrying our nation from within since WW2, even to this day those DDR scum and spies sits in this country and are destroying the nation piece by piece from within. 

I agree that you cannot compare the 40s with present time, so why do that with Germany then? as I said before Sweden was actually worse when it came to people with mental issues or those who was disabled. So why do you think that Germany was a more evil nation than for example Sweden?

Btw there is no freedom in Europe, if we are trulty free where is it? you cannot think and say what you want. And the EU for example doesnt give a ->-bleeped-<- about what the people say. EU is full of ex Soviet officials (thank you Allied forces for letting them rule)!


Tell that multiculturalism is good the girls that are raped and killed just because they happen to be white and seen just as a pice of meat without any rights by the immigrants, before we did not have many rapes at all, now we are in the top of the statistics and all the assault rapes have been done by immigrants both here and in Norway. This is a great problem here, and it came with the experiment called multiculturalism.

Tell that its great to the elders that doesnt get any food because the government think that the immigrants should have all the money they ask for and the elders should be happy if they get one slice of bread a day!And the illegal immigrants get healthcare for free while we others have to pay the highest taxes in the world and still get piss poor service because we happen to be natives.

Tell it to the children that are bullied, abused and afraid to go out because they happen to be white and natives. It is strange, people come here and then hate us who live here and pay for them. Is that the way you say thank you?

Sweden was a wealthy nation not too long ago, with the most tolerant society in the world and a healtcare to be proud of.. And now? we cant even go out at night without fear, and the healthcare is all but good now these days because the money have been drained.

The city here where I live was a great place just 5 years ago, then the politicians decided to ship a whole boatload of African immigrants here. Now you cant even recognize the place. You cannot go out at night alone anymore and there is alot of rapes going on. 5 years ago we had NONE. So why is this good? I have yet to meet a person here that do like the multicultural experiment. We are getting tired of this and it will not end in a good way if it continues this way.

Multiculturalism is an evil invention and leads to violence and other horrible acts. Just see how Europe is doing now these days, it is a wonderful development isnt it? girls being raped and people killed and plundered as an every day occurence.

I feel no hatred for other cultures or people. But to force them on each other is not right!


You have however no clue about the human species because there has not been any mixing like whats going on these days. Never! The mass movement of people that we have now is a completely new phenomenon. It has nothing to do with evolution. Here the school grades are goin straight down at the same pace as the immigration, why ? please tell me.

We are right now creating our shameful past.

The US only won because they had the banks on their side and the Russians + all the communist partisans all over Europe.

Ok, I understand that there's no possibility of finding a common point, because you deny every scientific historical reconstruction, proposing your personal point of view of the past. I remember you that indeed history is a science and is based on documents, datas, while politic is an art, based on persuasion. You talk of history by your particoular political point, I talk of history just saying historical facts.
You have the right to be against anybody, included yourself, unless you don't encourage violence against them, this is the gift that our democracy left you. It is the first time i encounter a nazi Ts. I know many of us are into role-playing, it's kinda like an experience similaar to dress as a female, build a different world in wich one can be herself, but I did not knew about nazi-role-plaing.

Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on January 02, 2012, 11:51:56 AM
Ok, I understand that there's no possibility of finding a common point, because you deny every scientific historical reconstruction, proposing your personal point of view of the past. I remember you that indeed history is a science and is based on documents, datas, while politic is an art, based on persuasion. You talk of history by your particoular political point, I talk of history just saying historical facts.
You have the right to be against anybody, included yourself, unless you don't encourage violence against them, this is the gift that our democracy left you. It is the first time i encounter a nazi Ts. I know many of us are into role-playing, it's kinda like an experience similaar to dress as a female, build a different world in wich one can be herself, but I did not knew about nazi-role-plaing.

I am actually very interested in politics ( also very active in that arena) and have been for many years. I am also interested in history so I am not totally lost . But yeah we have totally different viewpoints on things.

Sorry about me bringing up personal experiences here, but I only used them as a example. And they are not only my experiences but a whole lot of people in this country feel that way. So we are all delusional?

Now you are saying that I am a Nazi  . Well I am not! I am just a person who does not accept told facts until I have made up my own mind about it. That includes taking information from both sides and study those facts with skepticism. You do know that many researchers doesnt out inconvenient facts because that would make them end up without a job?. Some even get imprisoned!

And I am not hating others. It is hatred and violence that I am against. I am against internationalism and do not like that banks rule the world.

I respect every man on this earth and everybody should have their right to live in peace and as they want as long as they do not harm other people by doing it. We all have our place in this world! If that makes me a Nazi to you so sure.

In reality I am not. But that doesnt mean that I see them as the ultimate evil in this world either!

Quote from: Dàwkbua on November 15, 2011, 08:09:23 AM
I am anti-capitalist, anti-consumerist. I believe in from each according to their means, to each according to their needs.

The foundational premise of Marxism.

Quote from: justmeinoz on December 22, 2011, 06:05:21 AM
Sorry Carolina but I was born in the immediate post-war period, and we were aware that  the Third Reich was far more evil than people today can possibly imagine. We grew up with people who had suffered directly.

Being Jewish meant having an ancestor as far back as it was possible to verify such. That meant you were a form of human virus to be wiped off the face of the earth, along with anyone else who didn't fit into their mad scramble around whoever was the current local Alpha-Male.
Economically it was laissez-faire capitalism taken to the extreme, coupled with monopoly or duopoly manadated by government.

Sorry for the rant, but that sort of apologetics for a retreat to a pre-Christian Dark Ages needs to be exposed for what it is.

As for myself I am an amalgam of Conservative, Anarcho-libertarian, Monarchist,very moderate Green.

The anti-semitism of the Third Reich is alive and well in Hamas and Hezzbollah.

"Libertarian" wasn't on your list, Fiona.

Without getting into some of the heavier political theory, or the economic aspects of libertarianism, it should suffice to say that libertarians value limited government and individual liberty above all other things.

I would describe myself as fiscally conservative, socially open-minded, and a strong traditionalist.

I'm a rational anarchist.

"A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as 'state' and 'society' and 'government' have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame...as blame, guilt, responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluations, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world...aware that effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge of self-failure." - Robert A. Heinlein

I live in the land if the independents, both Federal & State pollies belong to the independent category, pity they don't act like independents.

So I had to vote other.

Depends on the situation but mostly Liberal

Objectivist.

"My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

[Re: Metaphysics] Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

[Re: Epistemology] Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

[Re: Ethics] Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

[Re: Politics] The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man's rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church."    -The Objectivist Newsletter