I didn't say it was the only way to do it.  Do you want me to just repeat what others said in the thread?  Of course there are other ways.  I posted my experience of what worked.

I went through two different debates on two different websites with a group of "lurkers" and a group of "fundy judgers"  and this is the thing I posted that caused several people to change their previously bigoted stance to one of acceptance.   This was after 15 odd pages of explaining it the right way.

So I shared it.  If you don't agree why don't you suggest your own way of doing it instead of obsessing on what I do? 

Also the reason this way was successful was because it distinguished between sexuality and gender which is always confusing.  Many people think that transgender people are doing this as a choice or a whim, they don't understand it.

By making it a medical issue in the way I did they realize in that scenario that there is no CHOICE for the child.  Someone made a mistake.  This is the thing that makes them see it differently IMO.

Good thread. Lots of great suggestions so far, I'm interested to see more. I've been wondering this as I stem out to try to explain to more people who don't know me as well.

mixie, thank you for sharing your method. I agree that it seems to me a lot of people DO see it as a choice or a whim, as you said. As my mother keeps telling me, "You've had a very long time to think about this, just give them some time." It's true, this is something that we think about for most of our lives, depending on individual experience of course, and is most certainly not something that one just wakes up and says "I think I'll go get SRS on the way to work today!" It seems like describing it in a way that others can visualize with the hypothetical "both parts" metaphor would help them relate a bit more emotionally. I might try that if the situation arises. Good video, as well.

Also, Felix's story made me grin. Aren't children just lovely!

The key to that example  is to get the other person to realize that Gender is assigned at birth based on what the physical body looks like.   Gender is simply assigned based on the body.

By using the example it creates a paradigm where the parent or other cisgender realizes that this assignment is based on the opinion of people simply looking at a baby.

By having the "choice" be made by the parents and doctors it raises a sense of fear in the decision.   Did we make the right decision?  In every transgender case the answer is NO.

It's hard to get that across to people and using the hermaphrodite baby story emphasizes that issue. 


The point is not to describe what it means to be transgender but to explain to people why a transgender would be in a position where the outside doesn't match the inside.


Additionally it's important to keep it medical not mental.   The way people turn it into a psychological issue is based on the history of nature versus nurture and the damage done by John Money.

Showing videos of David Reimer is also helpful.     My husband is a big burly Greek man who is absolutely horrified at the pain that transgenders go through.  He made a good point.  He said most of the women and men he's looked at on this site would pass 100 percent because of the hormones and the youth of the person when they started the transition.

This is why it is so important to honor the decision as soon as possible.  So your mother should consider the life struggles you will face the longer you wait.

There are many glitches in how babies are born with genital issues,  like micro penis, women who are born with two vaginas and other such things.   The AIS woman really made it clear to him. 


Good luck!

Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 10:27:23 AM
The key to that example  is to get the other person to realize that Gender is assigned at birth based on what the physical body looks like.   Gender is simply assigned based on the body.

By using the example it creates a paradigm where the parent or other cisgender realizes that this assignment is based on the opinion of people simply looking at a baby.

By having the "choice" be made by the parents and doctors it raises a sense of fear in the decision.   Did we make the right decision?  In every transgender case the answer is NO.

It's hard to get that across to people and using the hermaphrodite baby story emphasizes that issue. 


The point is not to describe what it means to be transgender but to explain to people why a transgender would be in a position where the outside doesn't match the inside.


Additionally it's important to keep it medical not mental.   The way people turn it into a psychological issue is based on the history of nature versus nurture and the damage done by John Money.

Showing videos of David Reimer is also helpful.     My husband is a big burly Greek man who is absolutely horrified at the pain that transgenders go through.  He made a good point.  He said most of the women and men he's looked at on this site would pass 100 percent because of the hormones and the youth of the person when they started the transition.

This is why it is so important to honor the decision as soon as possible.  So your mother should consider the life struggles you will face the longer you wait.

There are many glitches in how babies are born with genital issues,  like micro penis, women who are born with two vaginas and other such things.   The AIS woman really made it clear to him. 


Good luck!

I think you mean sex is assigned at birth based on what the physical body looks like.

Transgender is not a noun.  It's an adjective.

It's important to use terms correctly so that you will actually be able to speak knowledgeably to others with little to no experience on the subject.

No I mean GENDER is assigned at birth based on what the physical body looks like.  To parents the Gender is based on the SEX of the child and this is a mistake.  The parent takes the child home and considers the child's GENDER the SAME as their SEX.   This is whole point of using the hermaphrodite example.  How do you really know "which" gender is the correct one in that case.  The example shows they chose the wrong one.  You don't understand the example or what I'm addressing so perhaps try considering it more before you speak.

David Reimer is a good example of what I mean.  His gender was assigned.  They took him home and tried to force him to be a girl based on what his sex organs looked like.  This is what happens to many transgender people.



I used it as a noun.  I chose to for a reason.


Do you have anything to add? 


Also the title of the thread is not "explain what trans means"  It is "How to explain better to a cisgendered person"   so that's what I'm addressing.  I would wager that a few posters who try this will have more success in getting it across than the traditional methods.   But I do agree that you need to know what you are talking about and use terminology correctly.

I am assuming everyone here does.

I understand what mixie's saying here.  I've tried to explain being trans in a similar way before as well. 
With friends I just try to be quick and simple.  but I'm working on coming out to my grandparents, who mean a lot to me.  So I wanted them to fully understand this about me.
They didn't know anything about transgendered people.  And I was afraid that they would think it was a choice.  So I first told them about people born intersex, and the parents sometimes think they have to chose the baby's gender/sex.   My grandparents actually saw the Law and Order SVU episode that had an intersex boy in it, roughly based on a true story too.   
So after I explained to my parents about intersex people (which they exclaimed, "Oh, you mean hermaphrodites!"  and I facepamled, lol)
Then I told them about transgendered people by saying, "And sometimes people are born with genitalia that appear perfectly normal and fine, but the child still grows up insisting he or she is a different gender than we thought.

And my grandparents, who very much hate gay people, were actually very sympathetic to intersexed and transgendered people.
So I do think that explaining transgenders by starting off with explaining the intersex condition can help people see how it's not a choice.



But I do also understand the importance of explaining/including the fact that being transgendered is different for everyone.  And there is no one way or right way.
I once went to a seminar through my high school's GSA where a transwoman came up to explain/educate us about transgenders.  But I didn't like the way she did it, because she explained how it was for her.  She said that she is only part-time female, and half the time goes out dressed as male.  (She was MAAB)  And that for her it was like a fetish or sexual related for why she cross dressed.  But she called herself transgendered as well.
While her way of being transgendered is completely valid, I personally didn't think she put enough emphasis on how that is NOT what it means to be transgendered for everyone else.  I was afraid that some people walked away from that seminar thinking that being transgendered is a fetish for everyone.

Hey thanks John Alex.

I thought of this thread a lot  today.  As an advocate and compassionate and pissed off person at the stupidity of some,  I try my best.  I don't know why this issue means so very much to me.  I think it has to do with identity.   It has to do with feeling on the outside and trying to explain yourself to the "crowd" where everyone seems to understand things in a way you don't.  For me I am an INTP.   This honestly means I'm too smart for my own good.  Some of you younger folks might remember the movie Flubber or the Absent Minded professor.

Well I'm the absent minded professor.   I have my own company and I teach test prep for teaching certification exams.  And one of the things I've had to learn is that often it's really important to "dumb it down" in order to explain it better.

Keep in mind,  most of you are transgender and are explaining a "feeling" to people who have no idea what you are talking about.  It doesn't make sense to them;


And Andy  I have to apologize.  I got a bit defensive.   Please understand that I'm giving you my advice as a cisgendered woman.   And I have been beating my head against the wall for over twenty years with this.  So my feathers got ruffled a bit in being read the rules.

I'm sorry I was snappish. 

So this is a "results based" answer.  It seems that when I explain it this way people suddenly go "Ohhhhh!" and they get it.


That's why I use the term "transgender" as a noun in the explanation.  Most people have no idea what gender means.   I know gender between the ears,  sex between the legs.

But honestly one of the biggest problems in explaining this to cisgender is the LBGQT  stuff.   The T is stuck in with sexual orientation which is completely different.  So most cisgenders I speak to think it's a sexual orientation gone haywire.  They don't understand.

Quote from: mixie on January 04, 2012, 01:34:05 AM
But honestly one of the biggest problems in explaining this to cisgender is the LBGQT  stuff.   The T is stuck in with sexual orientation which is completely different.  So most cisgenders I speak to think it's a sexual orientation gone haywire.  They don't understand.

I think you're onto something there, mixie. That's something that has crossed my mind before as well and I wondered if it affected public perception in any way. What got me thinking was that I identify as two letters in that acronym as a TL. So, something didn't seem right in the groupings there. Now, what can be done about that? Not much I take it.

It depends on who you're coming out to. Because when I first started accepting myself I did a ->-bleeped-<-ton of reading on trans issues as well as sex, gender and the role of a biased medical tradition that claims to be unbiased, I kind of took the approach with my mother that I took with accepting myself. I basically just started talking to her more about how I'd always felt, and then went into a lot of gender theory and reproductive science stuff. She still in some ways tries to deny certain memories that are important to me, and while I see that as her way of dealing it is still really hurtful. But its the research I started talking about, and which she started doing on her own that really made her more accepting, I think.

With other people, I just had to basically come out to them and they accepted it (mainly my best friend), while with others they outright rejected and no amount of information would ever change their minds.

That's the unfortunate reality. Some people are going to put their prejudices behind them and consider what you have to say and the materials you can recommend, while others are going to try to deny it.

Quote from: pidgeontoed on January 04, 2012, 05:54:23 PMI think you're onto something there, mixie. That's something that has crossed my mind before as well and I wondered if it affected public perception in any way. What got me thinking was that I identify as two letters in that acronym as a TL. So, something didn't seem right in the groupings there. Now, what can be done about that? Not much I take it.

I used to kinda have a problem with LGBT because the T didn't see to belong.  But with the extended letters I'm seeing sometimes now, LGBTQQIA (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Questioning, Queer, Intersex, Asexual).   And I felt better having them all grouped together when I saw it like that.  Because our LGBT community is really much more than just Gays, Lesbians, Bi's, and trans.  It's everything in between.

I mean we could have two different communities for LGBA, and TGGI.  But since these two groups (sexual orientation minorities and gender identity minorities) are kinda the most accepting of eachother, I think it's fine if they merge together.

Just my opinion.

Quote from: JohnAlex on January 04, 2012, 09:25:53 PM
I used to kinda have a problem with LGBT because the T didn't see to belong.  But with the extended letters I'm seeing sometimes now, LGBTQQIA (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Questioning, Queer, Intersex, Asexual).   And I felt better having them all grouped together when I saw it like that.  Because our LGBT community is really much more than just Gays, Lesbians, Bi's, and trans.  It's everything in between.

I mean we could have two different communities for LGBA, and TGGI.  But since these two groups (sexual orientation minorities and gender identity minorities) are kinda the most accepting of eachother, I think it's fine if they merge together.

Just my opinion.

That's exactly right and I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that this stance isn't shared by the general population. I've never seen AQI included in any publications or just casual speaking about the subject. The only time I really see every group acknowledged is by people within the communities involved. That might be just something specific to my tiny little corner of Ohio, but our campus group just recently began using LGBTQ. That's what I was referring to in my post, wondering if the more inclusive acronyms can be brought into popular use by straight cispeople as well.

Quote from: pidgeontoed on January 04, 2012, 09:59:57 PM
That's exactly right and I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that this stance isn't shared by the general population. I've never seen AQI included in any publications or just casual speaking about the subject. The only time I really see every group acknowledged is by people within the communities involved. That might be just something specific to my tiny little corner of Ohio, but our campus group just recently began using LGBTQ. That's what I was referring to in my post, wondering if the more inclusive acronyms can be brought into popular use by straight cispeople as well.

By "general population" do you mean of everyone, or just the general population within the LGBT community?

Just in my experience, the general population doesn't even know the letters LGBT.

The only places I've ever seen more letters than LGBT was within the LGBT community, on flyers or something.

Personally, I think all the letters is kinda annoying.  Even LGBTQQIA left out Pansexual and Polyamorous.  And probably more still.
I think we just need one word, like Queer.  And that's a lot easier, imo.  We can be the queer community.  I'm sure not everyone in the LGBT community wants to identify as queer, though.  But it is more practical than to use all the letters so that no one is excluded.

On my phone right now, but yeah by general population I mean everyone. Things would certainly be easier with an overarching term. How about "Alternative"?

Quote from: JohnAlex on January 04, 2012, 10:10:53 PM
By "general population" do you mean of everyone, or just the general population within the LGBT community?

Just in my experience, the general population doesn't even know the letters LGBT.

The only places I've ever seen more letters than LGBT was within the LGBT community, on flyers or something.

Personally, I think all the letters is kinda annoying.  Even LGBTQQIA left out Pansexual and Polyamorous.  And probably more still.
I think we just need one word, like Queer.  And that's a lot easier, imo.  We can be the queer community.  I'm sure not everyone in the LGBT community wants to identify as queer, though.  But it is more practical than to use all the letters so that no one is excluded.

I honestly thought the word "queer" did apply to the entire alphabet community until pretty recently. It apparently still sparks bad memories for some. I persist in using it, though. I just don't know how to come up with anything better.

I do think that people are much more compassionate about the idea of being born in the wrong body than simply choosing to change sexes.   I also think a large part of the problem has been the way this has been sensationalized by shows like Maury and other shows that lump ->-bleeped-<-s in with transsexuals.    It creates the idea that this is a parody of being a woman.   

There have also been shows and references in movies that have created this "game" of tricking people like Ace Ventura Pet Detective.  I watched that recently as was horrified at the way the character was outed at the end of the movie.   And there was a reality show that was done called "There's Something About Miriam"  which was horrible.

Quote from: Logan Erik on December 29, 2011, 09:04:33 PM
You could have them watch a trans video with you (if they would do that)

That can also backfire.  I tried it with my family before I came out to them just to gauge their attitudes and it wasn't pretty.  They were making fun of the people on the screen the entire time.   It was hard to sit through.  They were also refusing to use preferred pronouns for the transguy the video was covering.  He was already on T and had just had top surgery, so he passed amazingly well and my sister who had just started watching was like "is he going to start dressing more like a girl?" and I asked her what she meant and she said "well if he wants to be a girl, shouldn't he start dressing more like it?" and I told her he was an ftm and she immediately started referring to him as she.  Even though it didn't help anyone in my family understand where I'm coming from and open their eyes to it like I was hoping, it definitely gave me a sense of what I was going to be up against when I did come out, so that was good.

btw-- I came out to my entire family last April and every one of them is acting like I never said anything at all, except for my mom who every once and awhile will mention my facial hair (I'm pre-t but still have a LOT for a woman) and say disgustedly "you're not taking any drugs or anything, are you?" and it was obvious by the tone and context she meant hormones.  Although I can't complain entirely about her-- she bought me two men's dress sweaters for Christmas and suggested I buy a men's dress shirt (mostly because it looked almost the same but was cheaper than the women's).

Quote from: Devin87 on January 05, 2012, 10:18:49 PM
That can also backfire.  I tried it with my family before I came out to them just to gauge their attitudes and it wasn't pretty.  They were making fun of the people on the screen the entire time.   It was hard to sit through.  They were also refusing to use preferred pronouns for the transguy the video was covering.  He was already on T and had just had top surgery, so he passed amazingly well and my sister who had just started watching was like "is he going to start dressing more like a girl?" and I asked her what she meant and she said "well if he wants to be a girl, shouldn't he start dressing more like it?" and I told her he was an ftm and she immediately started referring to him as she.  Even though it didn't help anyone in my family understand where I'm coming from and open their eyes to it like I was hoping, it definitely gave me a sense of what I was going to be up against when I did come out, so that was good.

btw-- I came out to my entire family last April and every one of them is acting like I never said anything at all, except for my mom who every once and awhile will mention my facial hair (I'm pre-t but still have a LOT for a woman) and say disgustedly "you're not taking any drugs or anything, are you?" and it was obvious by the tone and context she meant hormones.  Although I can't complain entirely about her-- she bought me two men's dress sweaters for Christmas and suggested I buy a men's dress shirt (mostly because it looked almost the same but was cheaper than the women's).

This made my blood boil as a mother.  I literally want to reach through the screen and slap the stuffing out of your mother.  Sorry.  Hang in there. The world is a big big beautiful place with lots of room and plenty of places to go.


ETA  read that a bit wrong.   But hey she got you sweaters so at least she's trying.  So I'll just scowl and the screen instead of reaching all the way through it.

Quote from: Felix on January 05, 2012, 12:08:42 AMI honestly thought the word "queer" did apply to the entire alphabet community until pretty recently. It apparently still sparks bad memories for some. I persist in using it, though. I just don't know how to come up with anything better.

Hey! I like that, the alphabet community where no letter is excluded, lol.