Hey guys so as of today i'm 5 laser sessions down and my facial hair (upper lip and chin) is thinning out considerably, also the hair on my neck and on the sides of my face is completely gone too so yay to that! 

   Anyways my question is when should I start electrolysis, like should I wait till I have more laser sessions down or should I start now and do both laser and electrolysis at the same time? I have some random blonde hairs through out my face so I know i'm gonna have to zap those with electro because I don't think laser will affect them but i'm worried that doing both at the same time might complicate things.

     

Quote from: Deana on January 05, 2012, 12:34:29 AM
I wouldn't start with the electro until you are done with the laser. Electrolysis is a long slow process. It took me years to have my face cleared that way.

  Yeah I heard some other MTF's doing both at the same time so I was curious & yeah i know long and slow isn't my style so I went with laser and it seems to be working really good.

  Thx for your help Deana!

Probably best to wait till you've got as far as you can with laser before starting with electro, But! you could start on the blonde hairs because laser won't touch em. (same for grey hair if you're a fossil like me ) If you do decide to do this it would be wise to leave at least a week between the laser and the electro, 2 weeks would be better. Good to hear that you've achieved some success on your neck and the sides of your face but don't be too disappointed if you see a bit of regrowth once some time has passed after your last laser session. If you're still shaving your entire face to deal with the hairs that haven't been affected this will give the impression that everything has gone. The finer hairs that won't be affected by laser take time to come through and are sometimes stunned for a while before appearing again. The good news is that these finer hairs shouldn't cause any shadow, because they are finer and hopefully by now sparser. Better again is the fact that they won't require as much energy to get rid of once you start the electro so it won't be too uncomfortable as the thicker terminal hairs can be. Best of luck 
Deana  It can take years to clear a beard with electro but it can also be done fairly quickly as well. Unfortunately there are a few factors affecting this, the obvious one being money. If you can do long appointments on a regular basis things will be completed faster. Something else to consider is that everyone's hair density is different, some poor unfortunates have more follicles than fish in the sea where others have none by comparison.

Ya, I'd wait.

I've had six laser sessions and not to kill your hopes, but I had many blonde hairs that within the six weeks I was waiting for my next session, eventually turn darker again.  I recommend waiting four to six weeks before determining the hair will remain the color/status that it is.  But, YMMV.

Here is another hint.  Finish all of your laser and or electrolysis before FFS. I have more black hairs on my lip in under a week than I've had in a LONG time.

I'm going to have to do both because now that the dark stuff is mostly gone I have a lot of clear/colorless (not white) hairs on my next and lip area. Unfortunately no one I've spoken to knows any good electroloysis places in the tri cites.  It's all like, oh there was that place on x, no wait they closed.

Something else to consider. Those blonde hairs, the "clear/colourless (not white) hairs" could well be the hairs that have been stunned into telogen. This period in telogen might be extended because of the laser but it doesn't mean the follicle has been disabled. In case you don't know this is the phase of hair growth where the follicle stays dormant and doesn't produce another hair for a while. Depending on the area of the head, face or body there are always a % of follicles in this state. It's a little dis-heartening to realise but the hairs that you see at any given time are only a % of the total hairs/follicles that you actually have. This is why electrolysis even when it is completed by E3000 and two operators working at once still takes around a year to complete. It also makes clear the need for regular appointments. You hear people touting 3 to 4 years, sometimes longer to get rid of a beard and I have no doubt that they are not exaggerating. However the reality of this is normally that they just haven't been putting in the necessary hours within any year in order that the treatment can be optimised. This is a frustrating reality for both the practitioner and the person being zapped. Obviously cost is a factor in this as well as the ability of the person carrying out the treatment.   
Where laser doesn't get rid of a follicle it could be that treatments temporarily weaken the follicle... This doesn't mean it won't produce another hair, not at all, it's just an interruption of the growing cycle...It might even be the case that it has stimulated new growth.....This is being observed more and more and there are actually clinics promoting laser hair growth.... In certain circles it is being recommended that women do not get laser treatment on their faces, certainly where any growth is fine and downey as laser treatments can cause additional growth (paradoxical hypertrichosis) this is more common with asian and olive skin tones.
When hairs re-appear they might well be clear but as they start growing again you may well find they become pigmented and course as they were before you started treatment. Bear in mind that a typical beard hair can supposedly be in anagen/catagen for around 52 weeks so they've got plenty of time to get back to strength (pigmented and course) especially if they have any T helping them along. Wether 52 weeks is a factual period of time I don't know for sure. I don't think anyone's actually sat and watched  but it's generally accepted that it's somewhere in this region. It's also thought that beard follicles could be resting for as long as 10 weeks so this would be a more realistic period of time to wait before saying it's gone for sure... Obviously everyone's different and it would be silly to generalise to broadly but these numbers should be somewhere close. Upper lip (moustache) hairs have a shorter growing period but as lots of people are finding out some of then don't respond very well to laser. Hope this helps

  Thx for all the replies everyone!

  Smooth thx you for all the information. I guess it just depends on age and skin type and how much facial hair you have, personally I never had alot of facial hair to begin and my skin type is perfect for laser. Depends on the type of laser being used as well (IPL's are NOT real lasers!). The place i'm going to uses an alexandrite laser which is very powerful and effective in the right hands but also very expensive.

  Lasers are permanent hair "reduction" but still cut your hair removal time in half compared to straight electrolysis. I heard that E3000 electrolysis place in Texas is pretty fast but I also heard stories of transwomen coming out of there with their faces looking like pineapples and some had permanent scarring.

The e3000 approach is pretty hard core. I can't say too much because I don't know exactly how they go about things but if someone has a particularly dense beard I don't think a complete clearance is probably the best approach. I'm not sure they do this in all cases so I may be speaking out of turn, I do have a special knack of putting my foot in my mouth sometimes. I've seen a few pictures myself and in one of them the person in the picture looked like she'd gone fifteen rounds with Mike Tyson. http://jmcl.wordpress.com/tag/electrolysis/ (scroll down for the pic) Where follicles are tightly packed they should be thinned rather than cleared otherwise there isn't always enough undamaged tissue to effect proper healing. You're always going to get horror stories, true or not, but most issues with electrolysis resolve in time. I think the main thing is NEVER pick and give your skin a chance to heal itself, no special potions or creams that your electrologist doesn't recommend. Complete healing can take as long as a year, be patient and don't panic.
As for laser cutting your treatment time in half this isn't always strictly true and here's why. You're probably looking at 6 treatments minimum probably more like ten as they are often reluctant to frighten you off in the beginning by using enough energy. With treatments spaced 6 weeks apart this is minimum 36 weeks and after only six treatments you can be pretty certain there'll be a good few hairs left. If you do opt for ten or more treatments you're going to be looking at around 60 weeks and there will no doubt still be some hairs left. At this point if you start electrolysis you're going to be looking at a further year... possibly. It will take around this long for all of your follicles to cycle through and produce hair before they can be treated. It might be less but who can say for sure.... However! if you have the funds and start with electrolysis from the beginning you could be finished in around one year... ish. This might end up costing you more in the short term, then again it might not. One things for sure though it could well save you time and as I was told, "you can't earn more time" 
You probably already know this but just in case you don't. Laser won't work on grey hair or blonde hair. I have seen someone say they are having success in spite of being a ginger.I don't think it works particularly well on red hair either. Ideally the hair should be dark and course and the skin light. I hear a combination of Alexandrite and Yag works best. I didn't have yag myself so I can't really comment on that. I think some people are a little more optomistic about their results than is realistic. From what I've experienced and from speaking to and corresponding with some of the top electrologists in the world, The general consensus is that laser will only take someone so far with beard removal before electrolysis is needed to finish off. Best of luck 

 
   Whoa another long post there smooth. 

   Yeah I think it can go either way with each telling you disinformation about the other so you don't go somewhere else. I'm pleased so far with my results so I guess only time will tell.

Something that might be worth asking about in the beginning is "will I get any money back if I don't achieve % of hair gone or if it comes back?" It's a fair point to raise considering the money involved....

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2012, 05:21:31 PM
Something that might be worth asking about in the beginning is "will I get any money back if I don't achieve % of hair gone or if it comes back?" It's a fair point to raise considering the money involved....

Indeed some people don't realize the money involved in permanent hair removal. The laser clinic I go to offers free touch up's if after a year's worth of treatments your hair grows back which is pretty cool. I'm dreading getting electrolysis done on my blonde hair's.....i'm such a baby when it comes to pain. 

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2012, 05:21:31 PM
Something that might be worth asking about in the beginning is "will I get any money back if I don't achieve % of hair gone or if it comes back?" It's a fair point to raise considering the money involved....

Quote from: Asha on January 06, 2012, 05:28:56 PM
Indeed some people don't realize the money involved in permanent hair removal. The laser clinic I go to offers free touch up's if after a year's worth of treatments your hair grows back which is pretty cool. I'm dreading getting electrolysis done on my blonde hair's.....i'm such a baby when it comes to pain. 

The spa I go to for LHR doesn't have a contract system; it's pay-per-session.