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Muscle Building and Testosterone

Started by insideontheoutside, January 05, 2012, 09:54:50 PM

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insideontheoutside

Since I'm on my own fitness program for the last year and looking to take it to the next level I've been doing a lot of research on how I can build more muscle without being on T. I've come up with some interesting information. So far I've talked with two professional trainers and a medical doctor I know. All three have mentioned that it's certainly possible to build muscle without additional T and that working out in and of itself helps to increase your body's own production of the hormone. The medical doctor I know is also a women who, in her late teens and 20's was a competition bodybuilder (and did not take steroids). She said that genetics also plays a part as well as general physical make up. If you are thinner and have smaller bones, you generally won't be able to bulk up to the extent that a larger person can. She offered to give me some more pointers and help me out with workouts which I'm gladly taking her up on as well and I'd be happy to share anything I learn. One of the personal trainers sent me off to an article on bodybuilding.com Of course it's referring to females, but it's an interesting article none the less. For instance ...

"Whilst testosterone levels in females may influence physiological adaptations to resistance training, studies indicate that muscle accretion and strength gains happen with or without an increase in testosterone (Kraemer & Ratamess, 2005). Subjects of Hickson, Hidaka, Foster, Falduto & Chatterton (1994) increased both muscle mass and strength over a 16-week period of resistance training, with no change in testosterone levels."

I had no idea that studies had been done on this sort of thing.

I have noticed muscle gains even from the minimal, maintenance-type workouts I've been doing for the past 12 months. While I do have higher than average T levels (for a female-bodied person) I'm not so sure that has really played into now. I know T could be responsible for faster fat burn off or even just redistribution and body shaping but the muscle building might actually just be attributed to the types of exercises and the fact that I'm actually motivated to do them now and see even more results (I'm sure supplements such as protein, etc could make a difference too).

I've been seeing some other inspiration on the web lately too. I stumbled on a a trans fitness blog for this one dude. As far as I read, he's not on T, just works out hard and takes some supplements. Here are his results ...


That's about where I'd like to get to - just a little more bulk than I've got and more definition. I know it's possible, just going to have to ramp up the work to get there.

Anyway, just wanted to post this to hopefully inspire some others where maybe T isn't in your future for a little while, or maybe you're on it and you just haven't seen the results you'd like to yet. Exercise can do it.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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jsorter

If you are serious about working out I would pick up Arnold Schwarzenegger- the new encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. It will tell you how to do everything from what is best to eat to how to do exercises to programs.  Top pro and college  athletes use it.
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supremecatoverlord

Quote from: JS04011027 on January 05, 2012, 11:13:12 PM
If you are serious about working out I would pick up Arnold Schwarzenegger- the new encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. It will tell you how to do everything from what is best to eat to how to do exercises to programs.  Top pro and college  athletes use it.

YES.
GET TO THE CHOPPA NAO.
Meow.



  •  

insideontheoutside

Quote from: JasonRX on January 05, 2012, 11:15:50 PM
YES.
GET TO THE CHOPPA NAO.


lolz

I don't want to be bodybuilding level ... just toned and really fit would be nice.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
  •  

supremecatoverlord

Meow.



  •  

Jayr

What's the name/url of that guy's blog??

His muscles look really good.
o.o





  •  

Cyndigurl45

I would hope I'm gaining muscle, in fact I know I am :) and my T is much lower then the average female. T gives you drive protein builds muscle, I have the drive and I eat protein like crazy.......
  •  

Karridoll

Quote from: Cyndigurl45 on January 06, 2012, 01:55:32 PM
I would hope I'm gaining muscle, in fact I know I am :) and my T is much lower then the average female. T gives you drive protein builds muscle, I have the drive and I eat protein like crazy.......


If that photo is you.... YOU are doing everything right, wow.
Every day is a blessing
  •  

Berserk

Quote from: insideontheoutside on January 05, 2012, 09:54:50 PM
Since I'm on my own fitness program for the last year and looking to take it to the next level I've been doing a lot of research on how I can build more muscle without being on T. I've come up with some interesting information. So far I've talked with two professional trainers and a medical doctor I know. All three have mentioned that it's certainly possible to build muscle without additional T and that working out in and of itself helps to increase your body's own production of the hormone. The medical doctor I know is also a women who, in her late teens and 20's was a competition bodybuilder (and did not take steroids). She said that genetics also plays a part as well as general physical make up. If you are thinner and have smaller bones, you generally won't be able to bulk up to the extent that a larger person can. She offered to give me some more pointers and help me out with workouts which I'm gladly taking her up on as well and I'd be happy to share anything I learn. One of the personal trainers sent me off to an article on bodybuilding.com Of course it's referring to females, but it's an interesting article none the less. For instance ...

"Whilst testosterone levels in females may influence physiological adaptations to resistance training, studies indicate that muscle accretion and strength gains happen with or without an increase in testosterone (Kraemer & Ratamess, 2005). Subjects of Hickson, Hidaka, Foster, Falduto & Chatterton (1994) increased both muscle mass and strength over a 16-week period of resistance training, with no change in testosterone levels."

I had no idea that studies had been done on this sort of thing.

I have noticed muscle gains even from the minimal, maintenance-type workouts I've been doing for the past 12 months. While I do have higher than average T levels (for a female-bodied person) I'm not so sure that has really played into now. I know T could be responsible for faster fat burn off or even just redistribution and body shaping but the muscle building might actually just be attributed to the types of exercises and the fact that I'm actually motivated to do them now and see even more results (I'm sure supplements such as protein, etc could make a difference too).

I've been seeing some other inspiration on the web lately too. I stumbled on a a trans fitness blog for this one dude. As far as I read, he's not on T, just works out hard and takes some supplements. Here are his results ...


That's about where I'd like to get to - just a little more bulk than I've got and more definition. I know it's possible, just going to have to ramp up the work to get there.

Anyway, just wanted to post this to hopefully inspire some others where maybe T isn't in your future for a little while, or maybe you're on it and you just haven't seen the results you'd like to yet. Exercise can do it.

To be honest (and one thing most bodybuilders and trainers won't tell you in a fitness industry obsessed with bodybuilders and fitness models...coming from having been a trainer myself, plus having lifted for the last 10 years), one of the best ways to gain muscle mass as someone assigned female at birth and not on T is probably following a powerlifting model rather than a regular weight training or bodybuilding models. And you'll be a ->-bleeped-<-ton stronger than if you follow a bodybuilding or regular weightlifting model. The only thing is that you'll have to go through a regular 3x12 3-5 day/week regime for a while before your body is even remotely ready to deal with the weight and set/rep models of most powerlifting regimes.

And yes, you can certainly build quite a bit of mass without testosterone. It may take longer, but you can certainly achieve it. You've mentioned making gains even with what you've done so far. That's probably n00b gains, which typically level off after about 6 months of lifting (sometimes more). So be prepared to constantly lift harder than the day before if you want to continue to see good gains.

If you're interested, there is also a site called Old Time Strongman, which is great. It also offers books written by old school strongmen and fitness freaks, achieving some insane lifts back in the days before the modern fitness industry. http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/

And just for fun...one of the most motivating articles ever written: http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry-rollins "Friends may come and go, but two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds" is one of those motivational phrases that still pops into my head with every tough lift, lol.
  •  

Lee11

I know quite a few women in bodybuilding and figure competition who train/compete naturally. It is totally possible. A friend of mine trains with this girl who is totally drug free and she is frequently amazed by her strength and endurance.....
I am a writer for several bodybuilding/ fitness and doctors websites and diet/supplement consultant.
I am also a personal assistant to a, Registered Dietician and Certified Diabetes Educator.

Through my work and experience I want to be able to help the transgender community
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Berserk

Quote from: Lee11 on January 07, 2012, 10:08:02 AM
I know quite a few women in bodybuilding and figure competition who train/compete naturally. It is totally possible. A friend of mine trains with this girl who is totally drug free and she is frequently amazed by her strength and endurance.....

Yes, of course it's possible to compete/train naturally. That much goes without saying. I'm not claiming that you can't build muscle as a bodybuilder without testosterone, there are a million examples to the contrary. However, when it comes to gaining functional strength and putting on dense mass powerlifting or strongman achieves more largely because of the sheer volume required during training. Bodybuilders tend to go with 3-4x8-12 ratio, which means that typically bodybuilders do not exceed more than 70-80% of their maximum. It also promotes hypertrophy, but does not specifically promote gains in power/strength. Powerlifting models require anywhere between 4-10 sets of 1-8 repetitions (though 1-5 is more standard), and thus the lifter exceeds between 80% and up to 90% of their maximum. The goal of bodybuilding is not strength-oriented, but is aesthetically driven. Training as a bodybuilder typically supports that aesthetic goal. If you look at professional athletes or athletes in general, you won't see many of them training like a body builder, they'll train for their sport. Lacking a sport, one would think a person would want to become overall fit rather than train largely for the aesthetics. Why not get ripped and increase athleticism?

The problem is also that bodybuilding programmes tend to focus on isolation exercises rather than compound exercises, and rightfully so as the sport is concerned. You win as a body builder based on muscle symmetry, not on how much you can squat. Athletes, including powerlifters and strongmen, focus on compound exercises since they not only promote strength but the body functioning as a unit. Professional BBs off-season tend to do so as well, but to follow a "true" programme concerned with muscle symmetry, isolation exercises tend to be the focus.

Many people new to lifting who focus on bodybuilding programmes end up with greater muscle imbalances than they started off with, because they focus on isolation exercises (bicep curls and tricep extensions over deadlifts or proper bench form. Hamstring curls and quad extensions over heavy squats and so on) and often ignore compound exercises (the biggest thing they tend to avoid is the squat, which is much more difficult than the leg press or isolation exercises...hence why many avoid it). The end result is, if they attempt to take up a sport, or find themselves needing to perform an activity in everyday life which requires proper muscle firing...well you end up with someone who can't even squat down to the ground without falling on their arse. A lot of fitness mags out there geared at getting the lazy office-going couch potato off his arse and into the gym are very much to blame for a lot of this, in that they promote bodybuilding programmes and target people who don't know the reasons at all behind why they're performing the exercises they're being told to do. All they see is "washboard abs" as something they want, so they don't question it.

That's part of the issue I see with promoting bodybuilding programmes in the mainstream fitness industry. The squat racks lie empty while "resolutioners" (not to be mistaken with competing body builders who actually know what they're doing) spend countless hours curling in front of the mirror...or worse: curling in the squat rack.

Basically the point is, not even professional bodybuilders use bodybuilding programmes 100% of the time. You use a body building programme for a specific, aesthetic purpose. However, if you hope to gain functional strength, power and overall athleticism, learning about powerlifting models is going to give you much more success, because a powerlifter doesn't need to simply look good. Within the sport power is as important as cardio, which is why you tend to see a lot more powerlifters or strongmen crossing over into other sports than you do bodybuilders. Look at strongmen like Mariusz Pudzianowski, for example.
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insideontheoutside

@Berserk thanks for your input here. I don't want to come off seeming like I'm into bodybuilding though, because in actuality, I'm not. The one trainer I know that sent me to bodybuilding.com did so just for the article on testosterone. Neither of the fitness trainers I know advocate a bodybuilding program if you're not interested in bodybuilding. What I'm moving towards is more P-90x style of overall body fitness. That stuff does get you the strength and definition that I'm after. I don't need to bulk up a whole lot. I'm only 5'3" to begin with so a little is going to go a long way. I'd rather be lean and have an athletic build rather than the bodybuilding build. The exercises I had been doing for the last 12 months were mostly full body and body weight exercises. The body weight exercises are where I noticed the most gains, and rightfully so imo. I can now do a 90 second plank for instance and 6 months ago I could barely manage 30 seconds. I'm also all about a variety in exercise and I don't mind counting physical labor in with it all. For instance, pulling weeds out in my yard is sometimes a pretty good workout! So is moving bags of stone out in the yard (on-going landscaping project) or rearranging boxes out in my garage. For that matter, so is lugging around 5gal water bottles. That sort of thing actually does fall in line with the strongman type of training. My mom always did tons of yard work and landscaping, lifting of heavy, awkward shaped things and at some points she had more muscle mass than my dad. She still has muscle mass and she just turned 70 last year. So basically, that's what I'm after - lifetime fitness and being healthy and active, not just "showy" muscles.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
  •  

Cyndigurl45

Quote from: Karridoll on January 06, 2012, 04:59:05 PM

If that photo is you.... YOU are doing everything right, wow.
Yes it is Thank you ;)
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