I've been pretty vocal on here about how as a cisgendered woman I think a lot of transgender mtf are way too hard on their appearance. 

I take the train twice a week here in Brooklyn and there have been so many times I've wanted to take a few pictures to post on here of cisgender women that have masculine features etc.  I have many of my own.

It got me to thinking about the difference in development of confidences and insecurities.   As cisgender girls I think the experience is different because even as children adults will compliment little girls on things they think are pretty.

For example.  I personally think I have a huge nose.   But so many people have told me that I have the cutest nose.  One time on a website someone said I had a nose job and I was ecstatic.  So it helped to sort of offset my own insecurities.  I've also thought I have a really bad smile.  I envy women that have those tilted up corners and nice teeth.  I always feel like I have a very rounded boring smile.  Then people told me that I have a lovely smile so I sort of got over it and accepted that if others think I do then I probably do.

I've been told I have beautiful eyes.  And being so tall I also for years was complimented on my legs.  So if I went out to a club or dressed up for dinner I would wear miniskirts and opague black stockings to emphasize them.  (Now not so much since I've turned into a slob but hey)  I'd also lavish make up on my  eyes to really emphasize them.

What I was thinking about you ladies is that perhaps you might want to change your approach in asking for advice about your appearance.

Instead of saying "What doesn't look passing"  ask people to give you honest feedback about your best features.

I would imagine if you grew up as boys that most people would not be so forthcoming about how pretty or attractive your features are.  Most people don't do that to boys.   My second son gets complimented on his eyes all the time and others have said my boys are "handsome" but that's about it.

So what arsenal of attributes do you really have at your disposal?


I have a gut.  I've never been one of those girls that had a flat stomach.  You think about passing.  But oh my,  I cannot tell you the number of times I've been asked "So when are you due?"   Then I'd reply "Ten years ago but thanks"   It's so embarrassing.   So I've learned over time to wear spanx and to emphasize the positive and try to play down the negative.

I suspect that if you are so focused on what's "not passing" you can lose sight of some of the gorgeous features.

You can see this a lot in cisgender women,  you can tell when a woman will emphasize her cleavage if she's got great boobs or show off her arms if they are toned.

For example I would imagine a few of you have toned arms because it is easier for a male than a female.  A cisgendered female that had rocking arms would be showing them off all over the place.   But maybe a transgender female would cover them up because to her they seem masculine.


I know I'm not really aware of all the issues that go with this so I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn but I'd be curious to see what responses pictures would get if they asked "What are good features about me."

I'm wondering if people are completely unaware of how attractive they really are because they didn't get that support or feedback growing up.

Just a thought.

  I agree with you about MTF's being to hard on themselves and each other, you are your own worst critic is the old saying.

The RR train is good if you got one.

I generally advise others to take a good look around while they are waiting on line at the supermarket, that place where real women can be found.

Quote from: Asha on January 06, 2012, 05:20:53 PM

  I agree with you about MTF's being to hard on themselves and each other, you are your own worst critic is the old saying.

To quote the great philospher Kermit, "It's not easy being GREEN"

Well mixie, i was totally unaware of my "cutes" or "beuty" features till i  launch myself into the LGTB community and got that feedback from  gay and transexual women...and in time to time from some  online cisg  friends women...because in internet  women are less  complains to  say that to guys.  So i thoug in at least  the most of cultures and countrys what you say can be truth.

And yes..i all the time try to remeber to me what  things are my "best"  ..but sometimes i realice what my "best" features...are sometimes the most  masculines..and i wonder what is the point to  a transition...of course my GID come and back in waves.... maybe i just have a borderline  issue , who knows.

An of course   another problem , do the transition  screw some "good features" like the muscle tone...i will be less strong and toned  whit a anti androgen

I find this thread ironic considering how I had hotly debated the value of appearance as one of the decisions factoring in whether to transition or not for some people.

Like I mentioned in another thread, we dont need to beat ourselves up or feeling guilty about wanting to look beautiful.
Nature designed human beings to select the best looking people to sleep with and to produce the next generation. Even babies respond better to gorgeous looking than ugly looking people when presented with a variety of pictures.

It is just how life is

Oh MsDazzler!

ugly or beautiful according to what and whom? Do you have some sort of standardized beauty scale or what?
Humans have been around for a little while, wouldn't you think by now we shouldn't have "ugly" people any longer if your theory of beauty evolution were truth?
People are suffering from lookism and sexism and that is the reason people are beating themselves over if it makes any sense to transition or not.

Some people have pleasing looks but stuff they say is so ugly! How do you establish the average beauty score in those cases?

Quote from: envie on January 06, 2012, 08:12:35 PM
Oh MsDazzler!
Some people have pleasing looks but stuff they say is so ugly! How do you establish the average beauty score in those cases?

You don't.

I say stuff that is unfavorable on this board. If I told people what they wanted to hear would I be better liked? Probably.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 08:14:20 PM
I say stuff that is unfavorable on this board. If I told people what they wanted to hear would I be better liked? Probably.

Actually you rather stay truth to yourself with stuff you say which is something to be admired!
True, you can be at times a bit insensitive but rarely just plain mean.
However you don't seem to care about others critics which is either a strength or ignorance.
I guess your friends will know this better and either treasure you or despise you!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 08:14:20 PM
You don't.

I say stuff that is unfavorable on this board. If I told people what they wanted to hear would I be better liked? Probably.

Not speaking for others,  but you know I adore you Mahsa.   I don't think what makes you "less liked" is your "honesty"  I think sincerely its because you come across as someone who doesn't love yourself very much.  And then you assume that the truth is everyone feels this way about themselves.  That's projection.   Not honesty.  It seems to me that your entire confidence relies on your looks.  And that is not a good thing for anyone to have to deal with.



I've  seen and I'm sure I'm not the only one, many physically beautiful people turn ugly on a dime because of the way they treat other people.  In a photograph anyone can be stunning.  In person, not so much.


Also I want to address what envie said about sometimes your best features are the masculine ones.  I guess that's exactly what I'm saying.  My height would be considered a masculine feature.  But I stand out because of it and it makes me special.  I suppose if I could create the perfect Mixie,  I'd cut off a few inches.  But then I wouldn't be Mixie.   Many people think it's a boon to be tall.

Everyone has their opinions.

But beauty is confidence.

Quote from: mixie on January 06, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
But beauty is confidence.

thank you!

Quote from: mixie on January 06, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
  I think sincerely its because you come across as someone who doesn't love yourself very much.

I am the poster child of narcissism.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 11:19:58 PM
I am the poster child of narcissism.

Kia Ora Elle,

And narcissism is a mental disorder, go figure....

Metta Zenda

Mixie, You are right. we are way too hard on ourselves. And I don't think that will change anytime soon.

Quote from: Zenda on January 06, 2012, 11:51:18 PM
Kia Ora Elle,

And narcissism is a mental disorder, go figure....

Metta Zenda

A mental disorder about me.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 07, 2012, 12:51:18 AM
A mental disorder about me.

Kia Ora Elle,

  all about you, who else 'could' it be about ? 

Metta Zenda

Yes, we are too hard on ourselves.  But at times, I feel it's a must.

In reference to asking others what passes and what doesn't... I've never participated in those threads and I never will.

Quote from: Zenda on January 07, 2012, 12:56:23 AM
Kia Ora Elle,

  all about you, who else 'could' it be about ? 

Metta Zenda

*insert catty gay celebrity here* ()()

Quote from: Keaira on January 07, 2012, 12:45:58 AM
Mixie, You are right. we are way too hard on ourselves. And I don't think that will change anytime soon.

Guess what?  It's your job to change it.  Not anyone else's.  For SURE I could try to have a tummy tuck, or spend hours trying on different kind of tummy controllers.  I could spend hours, days, weeks in a gym (I did it didn't make a dent.  I'm perpetually cursed)  or I could say "Who gives a flying feck.  Am I really the sum total of the fat cells in my gut?  Is that what makes me a woman?  Or is obsessing about it what makes me less of a woman."


The great irony here,  AND I HOPE YOU ALL HEAR IT.


You have achieved the greatest level of personal dignity, honesty and empowerment.   I mean seriously, how hard is it for me to put aside and say "Ok I have a fat stomach,  ok I have a weak chin,  ok I tower above most people."   Those things are about a thousand times easier than putting aside being raised as a completely different gender.  Listening to your inner soul throughout all those who said "No you are mistaken"  "Oh you should dress this way"  "This is who you are supposed to be!"

You fought through ALL THAT?  And now at the gate of your true self you're going to be taken aback by a few hairs,  or a whole shadow of hairs?  You're going to obsess over your voice or how your forehead sits?

It makes no sense!  You have already accomplished a sense of empowerment that eludes most women I know until they are way into their adulthood, 50s and 60s.  But here you all are,  knowing yourself, being yourself.  In spite of every obstacle and obsession you have come into your own and you are going to stop now?

Sometimes you all remind me of Artax  in the Swamps of Sadness in The Neverending Story.   You have ran across plains with the wind at your back,  you have climbed mountains with crooked knees and fallen in the face of brutal winter and got back up again.  You have saved others, been inspirations and beautiful beyond measure.  And yet.  because some redneck looks at you sideways and makes a nasty comment you believe that the redneck has clocked you and seen you and outed you.  Don't you understand that he would do that to anyone?   

Do you even realize the level of beauty and wisdom that it takes to say "This is who I am."  And to be yourself in spite of every obstacle?

I sometimes feel like Atreyu watching you all.   And I'm sure those that love you feel the same way.


Bastian and Moonchild scene

If it were that simple, I wouldn't worry about my voice. Or Rhyno about her appearance. Or Mahsa.... Well I'm still trying to figure out her issue.
We just want to blend in and live our lives, not be constantly made fun of for being ourselves. Which is what happens. or worse. We want to be seen for who we are and be the best we can be. Sometimes we can get really obsessive about the smallest detail. I agree with you 110%. And it can get really bad if we start comparing ourselves to what magazines are telling us about beauty.