I can't claim to be a religious person as much as spiritual but here is a question that I feel may help:

Which is better in the eyes of the Lord?  Transitioning/doing whatever it takes to make you feel at whole with yourself so you can better focus on your spiritual relationship with the Lord or denying yourself what you need therefore bringing even more unease to yourself which means less focus on the Lord?

Quote from: Malachite on January 08, 2012, 08:54:34 AM
I can't claim to be a religious person as much as spiritual but here is a question that I feel may help:

Which is better in the eyes of the Lord?  Transitioning/doing whatever it takes to make you feel at whole with yourself so you can better focus on your spiritual relationship with the Lord or denying yourself what you need therefore bringing even more unease to yourself which means less focus on the Lord?

You should be a Defense Attorney in the Afterlife for people in Purgatory that needs a legal defense and spokesperson in the Divine Court.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 08, 2012, 10:16:54 AM
You should be a Defense Attorney in the Afterlife for people in Purgatory that needs a legal defense and spokesperson in the Divine Court.

Is that a good thing? Lol 

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 08, 2012, 02:50:17 AM
I'm not much of a believer.. But I did consult with a Minister, who told me there was nothing in the Bible that really covered what I was going through.. Her response didn't really make any difference to my decision, but it was nice to know..

I commend the minister you talked to. She used common sense, and more importantly, honesty to share with you her experiences.

I do agree with her. The Bible talks very little about transgender....and none at all when directly discussing transgender issues.

People like to point out eunuchs as transgender but that's poor biblical interpretation. Eunichs were servants who had their scrotums/and or penis remove so they could serve in a wide variety of "slave jobs" without fear of taking advantage of female citizens or royalty. The also served as "concubine" where the females who owned eunuchs had no worries about being pregnant (if the testicles only were removed). The other eunuchs in which Jesus described as the ones who voluntarily had it done were those who thought that self castration could help them lead holier lives without fear of sexual temptation.

Some say Jospeh was transgender because his father gave him a robe with sleeves..which only female virgins in the old testament wore....but that too is overreaching.

Kia Ora,

When it comes to the bible's contents, it's all 'hearsay'-no first hand knowledge...So nobody can know for sure !

Metta Zenda

I would do the same thing I'd do for any other decision in life.

Prayer is good, and asking God to show you how to hear Him is good.

But even if you don't hear something on it, He gave you a brain, heart, and soul for a reason!    We make many decisions all the time without needing to stop everything to wait on a booming voice.  It's okay to make decisions that are good for yourself.  Sure, still pray and ask, but don't worry too much if you don't hear and you use the tools God gifted you with to make a decision (and also people He's put in your life, science, etc, too)!

Certainly, transitioning or not transitioning won't hurt your relationship with God.  God will want that relationship no matter what - if you want it too, you have it.  Even if you don't make every decision perfectly!  (That said, I do think that God likes to see His children live in truth and doesn't like to see people suffer)

Maybe we should look at the fact that the Bible doesn't actually define a woman or a man in the first place.  As my High School Maths teacher said, "first define your terms."  If there is no definition of  either, it's a moot point anyway.

Karen.

Quote from: Zenda on January 08, 2012, 03:24:23 PM
Kia Ora,

When it comes to the bible's contents, it's all 'hearsay'-no first hand knowledge...So nobody can know for sure !

Metta Zenda

With respect Zenda, that's a rather tired out argument that hasn't gotten any better with age.

The Bible was and is a mix of history and opinion. The history is very slanted, as all history is from that period. The opinion is what it is.

It is principally the US evangelicals who tried to claim it as unerring and divine. (Though only the bits that suit their politics. No connection of course, it just happens they are as right in their politics as they are in their religion. And questioning anything they say makes you a commie/terrorist/whatever. So there!  ).

As Christians we can take the 10 Commandments as being diving because we accept that came directly from God. As Christians we can take the actual teachings of Jesus as divine since we hold Jesus to be at least divine himself, though it must be acknowledged that many, (perhaps most), consider him to have been God incarnate. Either way, it make little difference.

But no reasonable person, whatever their professed faith, could ever claim that the rest of it is divine or unerring.

To claim it is heresy is a a bit of a nonsense really. If we are to look at things that way, almost everything is heresy. Few of us have read original texts on anything. I have never seen the original texts of any Roman history and every text on ancient Greece, even it's very existence, comes from what others have claimed. Have any of us read actual original medical texts?

Believing the Bible is a matter of "faith".  If you believe "by faith" then to you it is divine and unerring.  If you don't believe then it makes no difference to you and you waste your time debunking it.

I Believe.

As for the original question, I found out from God from His word and through prayer.

Quote from: justmeinoz on January 09, 2012, 02:53:28 AM
Maybe we should look at the fact that the Bible doesn't actually define a woman or a man in the first place.  As my High School Maths teacher said, "first define your terms."  If there is no definition of  either, it's a moot point anyway.

Karen.

10/10 honey, yet the OP is about TRANSITIONING, yes?

We do assume MtF or FtM, or what ever... now how about all that transitioning that was going on in the Bible from ONE faith/understanding to another?!
There is PLENTY of that in there for sure... Saul -> Paul (on the road to Damascus) was one of the latter ones.
If male and female is not clearly defined, as mentioned by Karen, then what's left for me, is the ACT of transitioning; moving from one place in your mind and soul to another.
There is lots of that sort of transitioning going on (e.g. Pentecost?) and most all seems 'approved' by the higher up authorities (father, son and holy spirit...)
So ... GOD seems very much OK with transitioning if it is; FOR THE BETTER OF THE TRANSITIONER!

That's my simple deduction,
Axélle

"How do you find out from God that it is OK to transition?" Just ask him! I did.

Quote from: spacial on January 09, 2012, 08:22:27 AM
With respect Zenda, that's a rather tired out argument that hasn't gotten any better with age.

The Bible was and is a mix of history and opinion. The history is very slanted, as all history is from that period. The opinion is what it is.

It is principally the US evangelicals who tried to claim it as unerring and divine. (Though only the bits that suit their politics. No connection of course, it just happens they are as right in their politics as they are in their religion. And questioning anything they say makes you a commie/terrorist/whatever. So there!  ).

As Christians we can take the 10 Commandments as being diving because we accept that came directly from God. As Christians we can take the actual teachings of Jesus as divine since we hold Jesus to be at least divine himself, though it must be acknowledged that many, (perhaps most), consider him to have been God incarnate. Either way, it make little difference.

But no reasonable person, whatever their professed faith, could ever claim that the rest of it is divine or unerring.

To claim it is heresy is a a bit of a nonsense really. If we are to look at things that way, almost everything is heresy. Few of us have read original texts on anything. I have never seen the original texts of any Roman history and every text on ancient Greece, even it's very existence, comes from what others have claimed. Have any of us read actual original medical texts?

Kia Ora Spacial,

As usual you make some interesting points...However It was not my intention to 'argue' a 'fact'...Thus I have been told "Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience!" So yes I agree much of the documented historical events [Greek & Roman along with holy book contents] are based upon hearsay !".

Also "since all historical judgements involve persons and points of view one is as good as another and there is no 'objective' historical truth". I'm just quoting [and tend to agree with] the late Professor of history 'Sir George Clark'-[From the book by E. H.Carr "What is History"]

If the OP wants more favourable information from the bible, she will need to change her mindset, because [another proven fact] one can interpret its contents to suit ones needs...

I wish both you and the OP well, and hope she find what it is she's looking for.[ Which 'is' entirely up to her...] 

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 09, 2012, 09:16:37 AM
Believing the Bible is a matter of "faith".  If you believe "by faith" then to you it is divine and unerring.  If you don't believe then it makes no difference to you and you waste your time debunking it.

I Believe.

As for the original question, I found out from God from His word and through prayer.

This is really what it all boils down to.

Quote from: Melody Maia on January 05, 2012, 10:29:00 PM
Ok, I'm a believer and something happened to me very early on in my transition.

Back when I was still him and had come to realize I was a transsexual and not simply a cross-dresser, I prayed quite a bit. I had come close to suicide, but ultimately did not attempt to end my life. So one night during one of my prayers where I asked God what I should do, I heard an answer. An actual voice in my head. It shocked me very deeply in that I am not the sort to expect that sort of thing. I am not the "hallelujah" type. More like a highly educated, pragmatic type. This voice did not sound like my narrative voice at all. It simply said "You are on the right path." It confused me and the next morning I asked myself if I had really heard what I had heard the previous evening. At that moment, the voice returned and said, "Do not be afraid."

I have held on to that experience throughout my transition. I KNOW what I am doing is right for me. It feels right. Things feel smoother for me. I also know that there is a God and no matter how many of my churchgoing former friends give me a hard time or turn their back on me, they are the ones that are in the wrong. My transition has been blessed. It has gone so well that I can hardly believe it. I never experienced what it is like to not pass even starting at my age at the time of 39. Voice and looks came together for me virtually instantly. I am employed. People who find out about me shrug their shoulders. It has been a tremendously humbling experience.

I am nearly to the finish line now. Sixteen months and 1 day from my first estrogen pill I should be waking up from surgery. I feel very lucky and am not foolish enough to think it was all my doing.

Amen.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 09, 2012, 09:16:37 AM
Believing the Bible is a matter of "faith".  If you believe "by faith" then to you it is divine and unerring.  If you don't believe then it makes no difference to you and you waste your time debunking it.

I Believe.

As for the original question, I found out from God from His word and through prayer.

You can lead a horse to water...

Quote from: Annah on January 08, 2012, 03:15:08 PM
I commend the minister you talked to. She used common sense, and more importantly, honesty to share with you her experiences.

I do agree with her. The Bible talks very little about transgender....and none at all when directly discussing transgender issues.

People like to point out eunuchs as transgender but that's poor biblical interpretation.

Some say Jospeh was transgender because his father gave him a robe with sleeves..which only female virgins in the old testament wore....but that too is overreaching.

Really?! Never heard that argument before concerning Joseph...

Me...it was when I stopped being afraid and was willing to do what I needed to do, to start shedding the layers that acted like a Lead shield that burdened me under its enormous weight and allowed God to start penetrating  my heart and mind. The burdens started  falling away, I felt relieved and start experiencing a peace I don't think I had ever had before. There were still struggles ahead, Annah helped me through one of them, THANK YOU! And I started not to be afraid to lose my genitals...a part of me still fought to hold on  ever since I first confessed to a near stranger shipmate when I was in the Navy that I wanted to be a Woman. Shortly after I accepted Jesus when I was 18, I "confessed" my "crossdressing" during a Men's prayer group at the small but energized Charismatic Church I went to. Afterwards the Pastor told me that he had sensed a Female spirit in me...no one ever said anything again about it, no questions or condemnation.

Bottom line, I stopped hiding and started understanding and accepting that I was a Transsexual, "things" started coming together. I have fight through the days at times, and my Faith is often weak, I'm still bitter about some things that happened to me this past year, the worst I've had in a long time.

Anyway, I starting accepting, that was a "small miracle for me to say the least  

I've been having trouble in regards to faith lately, as well. I've only recently accepted Christian faith into my life - for the past ten years I've mostly been agnostic. Since I have done so I've been feeling a lot more confident in myself and have been noticing too many good signs - not just about my life but life in general - to ignore.

But not only am I struggling to decide if transition is okay but if it's even right for me. I was thinking about starting a thread about this but it's so closely related to this one and when it comes down to it, the answer is the same: Hold true to your faith, listen to your heart and find the answer from God through diligent, honest prayer. I can accept that being gay or trans (or both!) and remaining true to God are completely possible, but I've been having an incredibly hard time with my transition - trying to decide if I want to continue and fully transition, if I'm happy (and safe) where I am, or if I want to detransition, and continue to live my life as a woman. Axelle wrote something about this on the first page of the thread, about seeking answers when she was coming to terms with being trans and that the answer had just hit her one night and it was a do or die situation.

I'm a little terrified, to be honest. It's been over a year since I started going by Ryan and I'm getting cold feet. I have plans to do a lot of travelling and living abroad in a country (most likely Japan) where being gay sits on the edge of a knife when it comes to being acceptable, and where being trans and a foreigner could put me in a frightening situation if I end up in hospital or unfortunately end up convicted of a crime. I want nothing more than to make my father proud of me and while getting a full-time job, sticking to it, becoming financially stable and independent and basically growing up will greatly improve our relationship and his faith in me, I'm still terrified of losing him. He's the only parent I have left, and I also worry that my transition might damage his relationship with his girlfriend, and even the rest of the family.

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm not trying to distract from the original post and go off-topic. I guess my main point is that I, too am feeling conflicted about my faith in regards to transition and have been desperately seeking council from God. Maybe I should take a trip across town to the United church that's affiliated with Affirm United? Maybe speaking to the pastor about my situation will help? I've never been there before and haven't stepped inside a church since I went to a family wedding when I was 15. Even my mom's funeral was held at a funeral home as opposed to a traditional church.

tl;dr: I've been feeling kind of the same way, OP. I think having some sincere prayer sessions helps, as well as talking to a pastor at an LGBT-friendly church (in Canada we have AFFIRM United connected with the United Church - not sure about other countries though). If your family wants to have you speak with a Councillor of their choosing, tell them you've already been speaking with a clergy-person about your transition and have found peace with God about it.

thanks to everyone else who answered - it was helpful for me too!

You'll know it is right because in your heart you'll feel it is right.

God knows you as a soul, not a body.  The body may change, but the soul does not.

As Mel pointed out, you'll feel things are going smoother.  I felt it like gears finally meshing instead of grinding as it had felt like all of my life up to that point.

You'll know.

-Sandy

In prayer, thank God for your gift, and ask for guidance as you take the steps necessary to make your life complete.

How simple is that?  The Bible won't have much to say on the subject.  I think it was written before sex change operations were possible.

Cindi

I think it was written before sex change operations were possible.

A few years earlier.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on January 26, 2012, 08:36:40 PM
In prayer, thank God for your gift, and ask for guidance as you take the steps necessary to make your life complete.

How simple is that?  The Bible won't have much to say on the subject.  I think it was written before sex change operations were possible.

Cindi

Eunuchs!

Quote from: Jamie D on January 27, 2012, 04:03:57 AM
Eunuchs!

Not sex-change re: Cindy, just a castrated male.
There is a difference - methinks... um.

Axélle