Quote from: Amalina on January 17, 2012, 03:47:53 AM
I'm not saying I want to leave, I love this site and am still so new to it, it just seems I may be out of place here right now. I can relate to a lot of what people say about their early self discoveries, but I have a hard time believing I can transition for various reasons, looks/weight being a big one as well as in this thread about coming out to people and how impossible that sounds to me right now. It just seems many here are in a totally different place than me, which is ok of course, I just find myself envying a lot of the posters here for their confidence in themselves and being able to live as themselves. I just worry that my posting is out of place and that my pessimism about myself leaks into my other posts around here, like I've said I don't want to be the resident whiner.

I do want to transition, and I would love to live normal as myself, it's just so confusing right now, honestly it feels like this will all be a waste of time and money in the end. Even if I might be happy about myself at some point I'll probably never have anything resembling the life I'd want, possibly because of my own weaknesses.

I'm sorry for sounding so depressing. I just have so much on my mind right now with all of this and Susans is one of the few places I trust to talk about it. I tried looking before and didn't see a forum for depression stuff here, if there is one just point me in the right direction, or if needed someone just tell me to shush, I'd rather that than annoy people. Thank you Felix for the response, you've been really kind to me since I joined, and thanks to everyone else also, I really do appreciate it.

Please DON'T leave.  I made that mistake.  I felt I was on a 5-10 year plan and would never get to where all the other girls (and guys) on here were.  It made me jealous and depressed so I left.  But it wasn't easier.  I still had those thoughts and now I didn't have any examples of other people that had them and made it.  I was very hairy, 6' even and 250 pounds.  It just wasn't going to happen.  I was actually more depressed without being able to see others successes.  I thought it hurt to see them succeed when I couldn't, but found it hurt more to not see anyone succeed and imagine it would be the same for me.

Please try to stay positive.  Talk to a doctor about pharmaceutical help if you need, but I truly believe that our mood determines what we see.  You could be presented with an opportunity to do it all and if you aren't in a positive place find a reason to turn it down.  Once I finally got my depression and anxiety under control things just started happening for me.  It isn't that I suddenly got new doors, it is instead that I was finally able to see them.

I've been where you are (and I'm sure there are dozens of others).  It doesn't get easier to go back into denial.  As a matter of fact I found that each time I tried it, it worked for less and less time.  DO NOT let your family/friends/community tell you that you are week to see a therapist or seek pharmaceutical help.  Just do it.  I know it has done a world of good for me, and I bet we could find many others on this board.  Sure you will find naysayers of medicinal help, but also remember that the % of negative reviews online always outnumber the % of positive because if it breaks we want to tell everyone, but if it works we just move on with live and don't say anything.

Once you can accept yourself then you will start finding the doors.  They may be minor doors - my wife's best friend when told was incredibly supportive.  They may be major doors - I was on a phone consult with Dr. Z asking how far out he was book and before I knew it I had an appointment in 5 weeks because someone else canceled.  We are too afraid to open the doors when we are not accepting of ourselves or are afraid of the consequences.

IF YOU WANT, you can do it.

I'm in hiding.  I live with very bigoted parents who have only stopped making me feel like killing myself because they think im in "remission" or something.  I'm about to start therapy again so they'll find out soon and things will get bad.  I mainly copy by trying to find super active forums and maybe some online people I can talk to.

Another one hiding here.

The only one who knows how I feel is my wife.

To everybody else, I'm still trying to be a man. The one change has been that it's been more than a year since my last haircut. I've never had long hair before this, and it's definitely something that's part of my transition.

I work in a church. While the denomination may be friendly, the specific congregation I'm in is not.

My advice: Stay. Listen. Share. But know who you are. Don't let anybody here judge the steps you take or the pace you travel on the road. None of us has the whole picture of your life. None of us knows your whole history. Nobody knows the fullness of you. Nobody knows the totality of your goals in life. Not every piece of advice you're given will be right for you: and that's OK.

But my experience has been that it can be way too lonely to hide completely. And safe outlets for being our true selves can sometimes feel too rare.

Amalina,
I have little to add, but much to reitterate and support what my sisters have said before me.

Quote from: Cindy James on January 17, 2012, 04:25:48 AM
I live and I win.

Repeat this mantra on the hour every hour, and within a short period of time it will happen.

Quote from: Cindy James on January 17, 2012, 04:25:48 AM
There is nothing to be afraid of except fear itself.    You can only go forwards with strength.

You only think you know how people are going to accept you. This is a false reality, based on fear. Which in itself stands for False Evidence Appearing Real.

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 07:05:55 AM
my wife's best friend when told was incredibly supportive

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 07:05:55 AM
I truly believe that our mood determines what we see (and do). 

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 07:05:55 AM
Once I finally got my depression and anxiety under control things just started happening for me.  It isn't that I suddenly got new doors, it is instead that I was finally able to see them. Once you can accept yourself then you will start finding the doors

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 07:05:55 AM
It doesn't get easier to go back into denial.

In fact it gets harder

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 07:05:55 AM
DO NOT let your family/friends/community tell you that you are week to see a therapist or seek pharmaceutical help.  Just do it.

This is YOUR life. NOT theirs.

Amalina. You can do this

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

Cindy, all I can say is

Jeneva, I am kind of on medicine. Have been mostly since I think June. I know how it can clear your head, I am pretty sure that was a major factor in me coming to terms with my gender identity issues. I had been thinking, rather fantasizing (non sexual, everyday situations), about it for a while leading up to the meds. It was like an escape from reality but I never thought it was more than that till my mind cleared and those thoughts stayed. I am not taking them as much as I'm supposed to lately, and I know it is partially wanting not to deal with the clarity they give. I know that is bad reasons but I would never claim to be bright when it comes to my own health.

Haven, I'm sorry to hear your parents are that hard on you, I hope therapy helps somehow for you soon. I also am using the net right now to cope, pretty much only the net between here and my blog. It's nice to have an outlet with people that care.

Openheart, I can kind of relate on the hair part, I've always had long hair but I've also always had a goatee. I love it for my guy look, and if I was stay a guy that would definitely stay, which makes hair removal a point of no return for me that will have to wait a while. I don't want to stay one though so I'm working on easing the few I have around me into not being suspicious when I do the impossible and cut it at least for a short bit. Since high school I've claimed it would never happen, so I kinda set myself up for that one.

The church part sounds like a hard one, a lot or most of my friends and family are born again Christians. I know how they react to trans issues already from past experience so I know I will lose almost all of them. Which makes things very awkward around them now, knowing how fast they would reject if they knew the real me. It's sad really in a bunch of ways.

Catherine, I am pretty sure that the depression isn't clouding my judgement on a lot of what I can expect from people, I know them well enough and formed those judgments while still fully taking my meds. If I was to be completely honest right now on the topic of medication and depression and missing open doors, and of things getting harder by staying in denial. I'd have to admit that right now I'm at the point where I kind of want that push, I've never had the nerve to follow through with my attempts in the past, and I try not to think of it but really it seems like if I let all this pile up enough maybe it will help push me over the edge and then I wont have to deal with any of it. No family gets embarrassed, I don't have to deal with loss of friends and ridicule, people can remember me kindly instead of as a freak their ignorance will paint me as. It feels like a win/win situation.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not there yet, and I'm not dead set on that path. I'm not strong enough to make that step completely on purpose. So no, I am not currently a danger to myself in case anyone is worried by that last paragraph. Just being real about my thoughts.

Thank you, everyone, for listening to my rambling.

Quote from: Amalina on January 17, 2012, 02:45:26 PM
The church part sounds like a hard one, a lot or most of my friends and family are born again Christians. I know how they react to trans issues already from past experience so I know I will lose almost all of them. Which makes things very awkward around them now, knowing how fast they would reject if they knew the real me. It's sad really in a bunch of ways.

If someone is that judgmental do you really want to hang around them anyway?  Of all of the family on my wife's side we lost for the hardcore baptist attitude, they were ALL people we avoided at family gatherings where everyone was present and didn't go to theirs at all.

I know that sounds harsh, but a bitter person doesn't make a good friend.

If it does ever come down to transition or die, please remember that anything you would lose if you transition you will lose if you kill yourself too.  In other worse you loose LESS if you transition and may even gain some measure of peace. 

And NEVER let "family honor (saving them from embarrassment)" sway how you act.  It is a cruel control method.  Embarrassment that some else feels over your actions is embarrassment THEY have chosen to accept.  Only that person themselves can allow themselves to be embarrassed.  You are not responsible for that.  When does it stop?  Once the current patriarch/matriarch dies their groomed heir takes over.  if you let that have power over you then it will control you until you die.

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 03:24:43 PM
If someone is that judgmental do you really want to hang around them anyway?  Of all of the family on my wife's side we lost for the hardcore baptist attitude, they were ALL people we avoided at family gatherings where everyone was present and didn't go to theirs at all.

I know that sounds harsh, but a bitter person doesn't make a good friend.

I know it probably doesn't make sense but I still care about them a lot even knowing how they would judge me. I hate the thought of losing them as friends though I know it will happen eventually. I would love to be proved wrong but I just don't see it in this case.

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 03:24:43 PM
If it does ever come down to transition or die, please remember that anything you would lose if you transition you will lose if you kill yourself too.  In other worse you loose LESS if you transition and may even gain some measure of peace. 

Well from my point of view it's either deal with all the stress and harassment and everything else on the path through transition and then MAYBE I'll be happy with myself and find some inner peace if it all goes well on the other end. Or end the suffering and pain and maybe be at peace that much sooner. Yeah I'll lose the chance of seeing how it would of turned out, and either way I would lose the friends and family, but it would make my life a lot easier overall. It's a very tempting option from my perspective.

Quote from: Jeneva on January 17, 2012, 03:24:43 PM
And NEVER let "family honor (saving them from embarrassment)" sway how you act.  It is a cruel control method.  Embarrassment that some else feels over your actions is embarrassment THEY have chosen to accept.  Only that person themselves can allow themselves to be embarrassed.  You are not responsible for that.  When does it stop?  Once the current patriarch/matriarch dies their groomed heir takes over.  if you let that have power over you then it will control you until you die.

Well I don't really consider it family honor. For me it's more of I'm already such a disappointment to them anyways, is it really fair to force them to deal with this as well, even if it's wrong and ignorant for them to think in such a way of course. If it will probably end badly for me why drag everyone else down with me, for the chance they may educate themselves? It's more likely they'd just pretend I never existed.

Everything is just so warped. I'm not even sure what I really want anymore with anything, I have no idea what to do and of course this is something I have to figure out on my own. I just don't know.

QuoteFor me it's more of I'm already such a disappointment to them anyways, is it really fair to force them to deal with this as well, even if it's wrong and ignorant for them to think in such a way of course. If it will probably end badly for me why drag everyone else down with me, for the chance they may educate themselves? It's more likely they'd just pretend I never existed.

If they pretend you never existed, they wouldn't be dealing with it. Even if they deal with it head on, you aren't forcing anything. Who you are is who you are, and your evolution can't be dependent on their approval. IMO if you already displease them then you might as well please yourself.

And btw it's okay to be depressing. Sometimes that's just how we roll.

Thanks Felix.

I'm sorry, I know I'm probably not making much sense.

I think I'm just trying to justify it to myself to not have to go through anything. It's not easy to bluntly admit it but what it would take emotionally for transitioning scares me a lot. It could be amazing and worth it, or it could be living hell. Maybe a mix of both.

My head is so messed up that it's even trying to dwell on orientation which is ridiculous for me since I'm not lonely in that way anyways at the moment. I have no reason to even care and it's something that should be able to wait a while to figure out but it's another thing my mind can throw on the pile of uncertainty. I've done my best to ignore it though because I'm really not ready for that inner debate.

Another random thought occurred to me tonight. My meds issue, if I can't get the refills and I go back on it regular anyways, they will both be gone in under 2 weeks. In 3 weeks I will be alone for an entire week hundreds of miles from anyone I know. Coincidence? heh my mind sucks sometimes.

QuoteMy head is so messed up that it's even trying to dwell on orientation which is ridiculous for me since I'm not lonely in that way anyways at the moment. I have no reason to even care and it's something that should be able to wait a while to figure out but it's another thing my mind can throw on the pile of uncertainty. I've done my best to ignore it though because I'm really not ready for that inner debate.

A lot of us don't come to terms with our orientation until after transition. Some people change their orientation, or realize that it's more fluid than they thought. I'm still figuring things out. I sleep with straight guys and bi guys, and no girls, and I don't know if any of that is true to what I really am.

Quote from: Felix on January 18, 2012, 01:44:25 AM
A lot of us don't come to terms with our orientation until after transition. Some people change their orientation, or realize that it's more fluid than they thought. I'm still figuring things out. I sleep with straight guys and bi guys, and no girls, and I don't know if any of that is true to what I really am.

That's what I figured would be the case, working through those things after transition. I've already thought on it too much as it is. This may be more info than anyone cares for but while it's on my mind going to see if I even have the words to explain it to myself. So feel free to ignore this post if you want.

I've never been with or been attracted to other men, or at least I never thought I was attracted to any. Thinking back there were a few times when I was younger that could of been called crushes instead of just liking as friend or fan, I think I mentioned them either here or on my blog before. Though I've always loved women, practically worshiped them, which always got me into trouble and hurt. I've always been easily manipulated by women. Also with some more thought on it even that might of not quite been right. Most guys think of women mostly in terms of sex, all my friends back in school were like that. I saw women much different, I think now maybe I was more idolizing who and what they were as women instead of male physical/sexual attraction. Still confusing the hell out of myself as usual, like I said I've thought too much on it all already.

My problem with this is now knowing more about myself and thinking of it post transition I can only think of myself with guys. I'm sure my reasoning will cause some face palms but, I've done my "job" as the guy, being the confident strong guy a lot of women say they want in one. Playing that role, and hating it always, but hey that's what was expected of me right? I'm just tired of it. Of course from what I've read I probably don't know how things like hormones and transition in general will affect me mentally but I still see myself as more of the feminine and passive, caring type woman. Able to be myself instead of putting on a show for everyone.

The hard part with that is I've been conditioned or whatever to see that in warped ways. I've always rejected the idea of looking down on other people as if they were weak and freaks, even with people around me being so ignorant, but I can't help applying those messed up feelings to myself. Allowing myself to give up the tough guy facade and relax into the passive stereotypical female role that I wish I could take on. It's a huge war of pride or something in my head. Which comes back to the fears of anyone I've known being around me later and the want to disappear. For whatever reason it just feels so wrong to me to want these things. Makes it hard to think of admitting it to others I know.

Which of course is why I try not to dwell on it. I'm hoping by that time, if I make it that far, that all of it would be a lot easier to accept assuming it's still what I want. Yeah I know I probably need therapy, hopefully eventually.

Amalina it's okay to be both soft and proud. You don't have to be thick-skinned and triumphant to be worthy and good.

Amalina,

I'm so proud of you.

I've deliberately stood back a bit to experience the wisdom that has surrounded your thread, both from yourself and the wonderful family here at Susan's. It has been very uplifting and inspiring.

The difference between your first post and the clarity from your most recent, pays testament to how well you are coping and growing. You indeed are a remarkable woman. You can successfully multi task, complex and conflicting thoughts and ideals. I'm not saying you have the answers, but your understanding of the issues and outcomes are well balanced.

In your most recent post, you eluded to your perception of women. How you have not perceived them in the normal masculine context of sexual beings, but more of how you relate to them. This is not unusual.

I have been a woman for as long as I can remember. Although I present as male, I've always admired women for their many attributes. It may be their attitude, character, opinion, outlook, fashion style, hair style, make up, body proportion, etc, etc; but never in a sexual sense. Hence some of the relationship problems in my marriage. Men on the other hand, I've always had a healthy distrust of. Only because of the abuse I suffered at their hands at an early age to my mid 20's. Yet every cloud has a silver lining. The one thing that was common to all the abuse was the fact I was able to satisfy men. In every event, they were all happy, although I wasn't. (Far from it) Yet, now with this knowledge, once I fully transition, can use it it empower relationships with men, in a healthier context. Even now, pre-op, I look at men in a completely different light, in what I perceive a woman should look at them in.

FairyGirl, in some of her recent posts has eluded to the profound, non transferable diametric change in your perceptions and understanding, once the transition is complete. Remembering that each person's journey is intensely personal and individual.

There appears to be a recurring aspects in all your posts. In some ways you remind me of a juggler, keeping many processes going similutaneously, in balance and harmony. That in itself is not bad, nor a criticism. It's more an indication of our eternal nature to continually strive. Even the juggler needs to stop occasionally to access his/her development/skills/programme.

Maybe sometime during your journey, you need to stop and take account of where you are at, and want to be. Maybe there is a time for you to get away to that desert island.  Away from every one and thing.   Knowing full well the ship will return in 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days, 10 months, whatever. .............  And during this time,      just give yourself permission ....... to be ........  who you are. ...... The woman you are destined to be.  To me, this is when clarity and purpose, reveal themselves; more so, than at any other time.   We all need to book time on that island. And I don't mean the TG community only. It applies to everyone.

Keep up the amazing job you are doing at the moment. You can do this. You will do this. It's not so much a question of;  if; it's a question of ; when. And that is in your time and your control.

Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

Catherine, thanks.

At least someone sees some shred of good in all of this. I have a hard time finding it though. If you think this is multi tasking ideas and such you really should read my blog. I'm not sure if we can post links like that though, I almost put it in my sig but I think it's on my profile. I've treated it as somewhat of a diary with mostly me working through stuff and sometimes reblogging random things.

One thing though I want to clarify, it's not that I never view women in a sexual way, just that's not my end goal for getting to know them like a lot of guys. I have to be really with someone to want that with them. Which is one of the oddities to me about it, from my experience with friends that is one stereotype about guys that is rather normal in our society.

The juggling act you mention is something I do vaguely notice about myself sometimes, especially when I try to talk things out on the net like this. It's one of the reasons I feel I may not come across right a lot of times because I feel like I might run off on tangents and sometimes end on a different topic than I started with and not even realize it till well after rereading it. I just seem so disjointed and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if I contradicted myself sometimes due to the confusion. I barely seem to know what I really want half the time.

I really wish I could get away to some island or anywhere really, in my situation that's not possible though. Between my agoraphobia and my gf/ex/? working from home. The only thing close to "alone" time I have is in the middle of the night when she's asleep and by that time I'm usually pretty out of it and unstable emotionally, always have been at night. Not to mention the stress of her constantly since we moved pushing me to get out more going with her to the store and stuff. It's really getting to me but no matter what I say she is usually oblivious to it. She tends to ignore things she doesn't like to deal with. I really think my time with her is running out.

Thanks for the reply. And Felix and Beverley also.

You are allowed to link your blog in your signature, btw.

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QuoteThe only thing close to "alone" time I have is in the middle of the night when she's asleep and by that time I'm usually pretty out of it

I've been doing a lot of this lately. It's soulkilling not to have time to oneself.

Quote from: Felix on January 20, 2012, 12:10:27 AM
You are allowed to link your blog in your signature, btw.

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I've been doing a lot of this lately. It's soulkilling not to have time to oneself.

Thanks, I wasn't sure and hadn't read those since I first joined.

Yeah it gets pretty bad, especially now, having to hide this browser anytime she walks near me. It's bad enough I feel like an emo teen due to everything going on, I really don't need that to top it off you know?

I didn't make it to that thing today I had mentioned, hoping for monday. Got a really bad headache last night that lasted till this morning and then something happened on FB that messed me up pretty bad the rest of the day. Still feeling so hurt by it. Just more confirmation of what to expect from my christian friends once they find out about me.

I really don't think seeking our trans groups would be of any great help.  Wel they would, but just now that im telling more of my friends makes it easier to deal with, and have had some talks with my parents to try and calm them down.  Also I just shaved my legs for first time in a year and it feels awesomeee

Well small steps can help also. I've found support groups to be really helpful, it's nice to know others like me are nearby.

TBH I know this is probably gonna get me yelled at but I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable hanging out in trans groups.  While it's true they are just like me, in some ways they aren't  I know its just a matter of why we transition and etc.. but the few I've met scared the hell out of me.  One I met, i was just trying to ask for information you know about the whole thing and they started hitting one me and making it awkward then when we hung out i feel like i almost got raped.  Idk, I know probably none of you guys are like this but its rather scarring when you're trying to figure yourself out.  I guess some of it probably is I haven't fully accepted myself or some other psychological babble but nonetheless it frightened me.

  Sorry if this comes off as a hateful rant against my own kind this wasn't my intent.  It's just I've had some bad experiences when trying to get help and freaked the hell out of me.

I used to hide too, but being the girl that I am It was difficult to hide to say the least.
My face, my body, my hair, all were so feminine...
When I came out I was being yelled at, and I was yelling back, sobbing like crazy, and I just sort of blurted it out and left home.
Well actually I was kicked out of home... the guy that was yelling at me almost slapped me in the face which I would have hurt him severely if done.
It was an... unfortunate experience and not the best way to come out... heh, and it all started with my kitten.