Quote from: Adio on January 17, 2012, 02:08:48 PM
Not trying to start a fight, but she did not say "all" (or always, etc.) intersex conditions cause infertility.  Actually, the first mention of it was by you.  I can't fully comment on the other part of your statement because she used a couple different wordings in her definition of intersex.  However, none used an absolute that I can find.

To be specific, the argument in question is not 'all result in infertility', but 'all result in ambiguous genitalia or infertility', which are two very different things.

Here:

Quote from: Annah on January 17, 2012, 12:52:41 AMIf you don't have sexual reproduction ambiguity or "abnormal" sex chromosome pattern then you aren't intersex.

Quote from: Annah on January 17, 2012, 12:52:41 AMThat's not how the diagnosis of intersex works. It's the sexual ambiguity of the sexual reproduction organs (downstairs...not in your head) and or the abnormal sexual traits of the chromosomes.

These were posted in the other thread Adio, which would explain why you couldn't find them.

Quote from: Bane on January 17, 2012, 12:21:05 AM
Since the percentage of 'normal' females who have the condition is between 5%-10%, I'd say it holds a lot of water.

And how much of the population do FTM transsexuals make up? Count that up and get back to me on whether 10% of the "normals" makes a difference.

Quote from: Annah on January 17, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
I don't know...call it tough love or whatever, but I find it in poor taste to try to get society to accept you as intersex when you are not.

To this, I'd just like to comment that I've spent my whole life HIDING facts about my body not being "normal". Trying to get "society" to "accept" me is pretty low on my life's to-do list. That might be someone else's crusade but it's not mine. Society is made up of majority rule anyway. But it's none of society's business what's really in my pants either. 

Now if by "society" you really mean other intersex people, well that's a whole different statement. And this is part of what I touched on with an earlier comment I made.

Quote from: Annah on January 17, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
I am intersex. Transsexualism is a freakin walk in the park compared to the physical struggles I went through growing up (and being transsexual is hard too...i changed genders...i know the hell but its miniscule compared to the physical conditions I suffered from being intersex). I have lost count the many times I was rushed to the hospital because my hormones went out of whack every other year, developing co morbids that were extremely painful, having breasts in junior high school (not the man boobs....real breasts), not dating in high school for fear of sexual discovery.

When a transgender can say "oh im intersex" without even really knowing the hell some of us intersex people went through (because they don't like the word transsexual) is insulting; not to mention the attempt to romanticize the intersex condition.

Saying transsexualism is a, "walk in the park" I think it a pretty flippant attitude to take. It's not a walk in the park if you're a young person who doesn't really understand what's going on and has been close to suicidally depressed a lot in their life because their brain doesn't seem to match their body. Maybe in your own case your physical issues outweighed also being trans? But to call others trials and tribulations trivial in light of your own is not a great statement to make. One might even call it in poor taste.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on January 17, 2012, 06:27:06 PM
And how much of the population do FTM transsexuals make up? Count that up and get back to me on whether 10% of the "normals" makes a difference.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here, could you please clarify?

Quote from: Bane on January 18, 2012, 03:35:24 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here, could you please clarify?

I mean that FTM individuals are a very, very small percentage of the regular population and that non trans females who have PCOS can't really be compared because the numbers are a lot greater. If it were as you were stating, then a lot more "regular" females who had PCOS would be trans. You see what I'm saying?

Quote from: insideontheoutside on January 18, 2012, 03:54:50 AM
I mean that FTM individuals are a very, very small percentage of the regular population and that non trans females who have PCOS can't really be compared because the numbers are a lot greater. If it were as you were stating, then a lot more "regular" females who had PCOS would be trans. You see what I'm saying?

I think I understand now, yes.

However, I wasn't pointing to it as strong proof, or even as an important cause. If we are thinking of our condition as a physical one, then it is likely caused by a plethora of conditions that when combined result in someone being born trans; not one or two conditions on their own. The fact that our population is a lot smaller than the general population doesn't affect the validity of the statistics; if science worked that way no one would be diagnosed with anything.

Here's one way to look at it:

Many, many people smoke cigarettes, but only ~.003% of smokers develop lung cancer.  However, 90% of cases of lung cancer are found in people who smoke.

Similarly, 10% of female bodied people have PCOS, but only ~.002% are trans.  However, 60% of trans guys have PCOS symptoms.

While the link between smoking and lung cancer is stronger and more established, there is enough correlation to suggest a link.

ETA:  As far as I am aware, no one argues anymore that smoking does not cause cancer, even though most people who smoke don't get it.