First of all everyone has an opinion. I am one that often tells people I think they pass when others are saying no they don't. I'm so tempted to put pictures of my friends on here and show you what I encounter every day. I know that about 50% of them if you put their picture up here most people would say they don't pass.
I think a better thread would be, what do you think works on me. And then asking people what are their best features.
The other thing is range. If someone started younger they are going to have a better chance at passing. Older women are going to have a harder time. And so if there is nothing they can do about it then there's nothing they can do about it. So when they ask if they are passing I'm going by what they have use.
For example I think JoeyD passes perfectly. There was another woman on here who posted recently and I said 100 percent. She said she was 40 and had just started and I would never in a million years think she wasn't a woman. I meant it. I was surprised at how feminine she looked considering she was just starting out.
What bothers me more is when I see people telling posters that they have to wear a wig or grow out their hair etc. It's about having this "image" of a "woman" and if the poster doesn't look like a "pretty girl" with long hair, make up, no adams apple, skinny, etc, then they don't pass.
That to me is saying that you have to look a certain way to pass. I have also noticed that many of the people on this site who in my opinion, don't pass, are much faster to say that others don't pass when to me they do. They might not look gorgeous. But they do pass
Would she pass?
or her
or her
or her
Here's what I think doesn't pass
Fake hair, way too much make up, chola brows and dark red lipstick. If you scrubbed her off and put on a more natural hair, then to me she'd pass.
When I see people telling people to put on make up and get a wig, this is what I think will pass. I've mentioned that some people look like orthodox jewish women on this site because of the wigs
This woman would probably be told she doesn't pass. Or that she passes but you can still clock her etc. I suppose some of you must live in very isolated areas with very little diversity in women. Because when I say someone passes I am thinking "If I saw the person on the street would I "clock them." I have clocked a transgender woman before. She looked a lot like the picture above.
So in some cases I think it's turning into a fake sort of woman. No woman I know would be caught dead walking out of their house with the make up and hair that the woman has in the blue shirt. It looks "->-bleeped-<-."
So to me the question is, can you pass as is. Would I immediately think you are a woman. Some people have posted you tube videos that they show their voice and mannerisms. And that changes the game. The "put on voice." and other body movements etc. That's also what "clocks" a person. But if you are asking does your picture pass, lets say just for a facebook page, then yes I'll be honest if you pass.
I have also personally sent people PMs if they don't really pass and have given people pointers.
There's a difference in asking for constructive feedback and asking for "Can I pass" Well frankly just because you pass doesn't mean you are beautiful. You just look like an ugly woman. Sometimes I'll give feedback as to go for a certain look or emulate a certain style. Seems to me that people give advice on here on how to definitely look "->-bleeped-<-" or Drag Queenish. Then they think it's expert opinion or something.
Very few woman on this site that I have seen look like movie stars or models. JoeyD and Natalie are two I think that do. But some of you look like gorgeous regular women. And if others are annoyed because they don't like seeing someone else get a compliment. Then that is on you. It doesn't make the statement not true.
I have shared my experience with being clocked as a cisgender woman. But I also have experiences that have shown me that not everyone sees everyone the same way. For example my own mother used to say I was hulking and brutish because I was so tall. She said I walked like a man. And I totally believed her for years.
Then one year I was in a play "The House of Bernarda Alba" and I played the "ugly sister" and the director stopped the rehearsal one day and took me aside and had someone work with me on my stage movement because he said "You are too graceful in your movements, you are supposed to be moving like you are oppressed or in a masculine way." I was dumbfounded and told my friends that I already thought I did. They all thought I was ridiculous. They said I moved like a ballet dancer. Very graceful. So because one person told me something, I believed it. It completely wasn't true.
So my advice would be this, why do you think so many people don't pass? What's going on with you, if you are so sure that you can tell the person doesn't pass?
If someone has a masculine jaw, and that's it, then to me they look like a woman with a masculine jaw. One girl put up a totally gorgeous picture with an adams apple showing. To me she looked totally cis but like she had an adams apple. Brawny arms? Well she looks like a woman with brawny arms.
To me the only way a woman won't pass is if she's got more than two features that are masculine. So a strong brow, fake hair and five o'clock shadow, then yeah no. Strong jaw, adams apple and very brawny shoulder area, then yeah no.
But having one or two features doesn't make you masculine. Having a narrow hip line makes you look like a woman with a narrow hip line.
I think people are insecure about their own ability to pass and project that onto other people. I mean isn't the whole point of this thread
"How dare you tell them they pass when I can clearly see that they don't. You are dooming them. You are giving them false hope. How dare you not tell them MY truth. How dare you have a different opinion. You must be lying."
That's how it comes across to me. So get over it. Not everyone sees people the same way.
