Last night I was hanging out with a bunch of gals for dinner.

One of the younger lesbos was all nervous about her new lover coming in late.

She didn't show up until most everyone had left, and when she did, she made quite the impression.

So, I decided to make a small list of things NOT to do if you are going to hang out and try to pass in a group of dykes.

1.) Don't show up later than everyone else. Lesbians are on another time zone for sure, but you bring more attention to yourself than you need to. Plus, than you need to explain why you are so late. (see #2)
2.) If you are late because you were home being domestic, don't brag about it. Lesbians are notorious for being either neat freaks, or slobs. But, for those of us that are not slobs -- we don't necessarily enjoy domesticity. If you are late, just say you had to work late.
3.) Don't show up looking all sparkling femme. You are going to a bar with a bunch of dykes.
When we see a woman wearing makeup and a dress or bright femme clothes at a bar, we are trained to think -- drag queen! Everyone else is wearing jeans and a fleece or cotton top, so try to blend in. You are not going to be the only femme there. Look to see what they are wearing and dress appropriately. For Gods sake, if you have to wear open-toed sandals, wear birks.....nothing with little strappy thangs and heels.  Lesbians wear comfortable shoes.
4.) I don't care how well you think you pass, or how cute you are. Don't initiate flirting with the dykes, and don't flirt back. Doing so will get you seriously scrutinized. When you are being "checked out," you are being looked over to see if you are something they wanna take home either now or later. Unless you are willing to take the risk of being outed to a whole group of stangers, do not assume that if they find out about you, they will protect you ala your current GF, or lover.
5.) This is the big one!  Don't talk about trans-stuff!  Trans-stuff is barely on our radar, even in the NW. The one thing that will get you noticed, and scrutinized more than anything, is if you and your lover keep talking about "other" trans-folk and "other" trans-issues they have heard about, and how positively weird that is, and how you don't understand it.
Talking about "inferior" transwoman that don't pass in an attempt to distance yourself from them is a really bad idear. We are left thinking -- what the hell?

Needless to say, after everyone left, there was quite a bit of talking amongst ourselves. So now, this chick, who is really cute, ala Tink or Katia, is outed. Oh yeah. If you are going to adopt a new name, don't go for a unisex name like Kelly. There is nothing wrong with that name, but it makes one sit back and go, hmmmm?

Basic Rule: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.  If you want to date dykes, think casual, not high femme.

That's funny...I go to the gay bar in my little strappy heels looking like I'm Miss Thing...AND my name is actually Kelly...wonder if they all think I'm a transwoman?

LOL Kelly that's funny. *peers suspiciously at Kelly*

Dennis

I suppose it's not funny to the actual transwomen that are getting peered at, but I will offer them some solace when I say that they could just as easily be mistaken for me! I'm actually not sure how I'd react to that accusation...I could see myself messing with them really bad by playing along and laughing them into hell or, at the complete opposite of the spectrum (I can't seem to do anything the simple way!) start launching tampons at them like missiles trying to prove I'm a genetic girl...and then laugh them into hell. >

QuoteThat's funny...I go to the gay bar in my little strappy heels looking like I'm Miss Thing...AND my name is actually Kelly...wonder if they all think I'm a transwoman?

That by itself? Probably not. Depending on the venue, str8 women do hang out. There are always a few flirty femmes flitting around. But there is a difference between hanging out with queer folk, and trying to "pass" as queer folk. In the situation I was describing, a foo-foo femme stood out like the proverbial sore thumb.

If you don't need to care [about passing], that is cool.  Wear what you want, stretch the boundries or whatever. But for those that are concerned, consider the venue you are going to be at before you leave the house. Consider the people you are going to be interacting with before you arrive. Dykes, lesbians, and str8 women all have their own agendas.

Having said all of that, none of us that now know about this cute chick care one way or the other. Some of us said that she was hot, and that we might even date her if given the chance. But, from her POV, if she was not only trying to be one of the crowd, but to "pass"as one of the crowd, it did not work. If she had done a few minor things differently, it would have worked, no problem.

ROFL....OMG, what a hoot!  LOL 

Thundra, you're correct!  Some TS women I know dress way over the top and wear clothing that is not appropriate for their age.  Personally, I don't think that a fiftish year old woman looks fab in heavy makeup, blue eyeshadow, blue-black liquid eyeliner, a mini skirt, transparent blouses, 5 ich pumps and hello-kitty scrunchies/purses, but you'll be amazed at what some of them wear.

tink

What about me?  I woudnt get get away with the halter and painted on jeans and heels?

Oh, wait, Im not lesbian, and dont care if I pass among them... though Ive been hit on by a few LoL...

Quote from: Tink on April 01, 2007, 12:12:06 AM
ROFL....OMG, what a hoot!  LOL 

Thundra, you're correct!  Some TS women I know dress way over the top and wear clothing that is not appropriate for their age.  Personally, I don't think that a fiftish year old woman looks fab in heavy makeup, blue eyeshadow, blue-black liquid eyeliner, a mini skirt, transparent blouses, 5 ich pumps and hello-kitty scrunchies/purses, but you'll be amazed at what some of them wear.

tink

Ummmmm..... Does ANYONE look good in heavy makeup, blue eyeshadow and blueblack liquid liner?  and 5in pumps?? thats just wrong for going out in period...  *shudders at all the fo-pas<sp?>*

Quote from: angelsgirl on March 30, 2007, 09:28:39 AM
That's funny...I go to the gay bar in my little strappy heels looking like I'm Miss Thing...AND my name is actually Kelly...wonder if they all think I'm a transwoman?

LMAO, this is funny because I am such a champion for the cause my friends on other boards are begining to think I am a TG.

Quote from: LynnER on April 01, 2007, 02:24:23 AM
What about me?  I woudnt get get away with the halter and painted on jeans and heels?

Oh, wait, Im not lesbian, and dont care if I pass among them... though Ive been hit on by a few LoL...

Quote from: Tink on April 01, 2007, 12:12:06 AM
ROFL....OMG, what a hoot!  LOL 

Thundra, you're correct!  Some TS women I know dress way over the top and wear clothing that is not appropriate for their age.  Personally, I don't think that a fiftish year old woman looks fab in heavy makeup, blue eyeshadow, blue-black liquid eyeliner, a mini skirt, transparent blouses, 5 ich pumps and hello-kitty scrunchies/purses, but you'll be amazed at what some of them wear.

tink

Ummmmm..... Does ANYONE look good in heavy makeup, blue eyeshadow and blueblack liquid liner?  and 5in pumps?? thats just wrong for going out in period...  *shudders at all the fo-pas<sp?>*

I am a hoigh heal freak...wear them all the time, at least 4 in heels and I don't care what anyone says.

Quote from: Thundra on March 30, 2007, 02:32:12 PM

QuoteThat's funny...I go to the gay bar in my little strappy heels looking like I'm Miss Thing...AND my name is actually Kelly...wonder if they all think I'm a transwoman?

That by itself? Probably not. Depending on the venue, str8 women do hang out. There are always a few flirty femmes flitting around. But there is a difference between hanging out with queer folk, and trying to "pass" as queer folk. In the situation I was describing, a foo-foo femme stood out like the proverbial sore thumb.

If you don't need to care [about passing], that is cool.  Wear what you want, stretch the boundries or whatever. But for those that are concerned, consider the venue you are going to be at before you leave the house. Consider the people you are going to be interacting with before you arrive. Dykes, lesbians, and str8 women all have their own agendas.

Having said all of that, none of us that now know about this cute chick care one way or the other. Some of us said that she was hot, and that we might even date her if given the chance. But, from her POV, if she was not only trying to be one of the crowd, but to "pass"as one of the crowd, it did not work. If she had done a few minor things differently, it would have worked, no problem.

Thundra, no different really than a GG or a GM or anyone going to any get together. If you are going to a pic nic weear park clothes, if you are going to a business lunch wear a suit, if you are going dancing pull out something sexy and so on...
The reality is, let them guess and wonder. Wear what YOU want, what YOU like and what YOU feel comfortable in. No one should feel the need to be lock step.

hey, hey, hey!!!

QuoteThundra, no different really than a GG or a GM or anyone going to any get together. If you are going to a pic nic weear park clothes, if you are going to a business lunch wear a suit, if you are going dancing pull out something sexy and so on...
The reality is, let them guess and wonder. Wear what YOU want, what YOU like and what YOU feel comfortable in. No one should feel the need to be lock step.

Look here. I am NOT into telling people what they have to do. But, since I had that experience with that chick, I was making suggestions for those that might be worried about "passing," that is all. I am all for supporting people to do whatever they want, but I also know that there are repercussions when you take that tack on things. I don't think most people here are interested in blazing a new trail, at least that is what I have gathered over time.

Now, it is one thang for a "GG" or a "CG" to draw attention to themselves, if that is ones' agenda. To shake things up. But it is totally another matter to suggest that course of action to someone that is trying to be invisible, to blend in. It is not my place to suggest what anyone should believe. I give a POV, that is all.

As I stated previously, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.  I might ad: It is perfectly OK for you not to do what the Romans do -- but if you do not, them there Romans is gonna be staring atcha and wondering what is up?  If that reaction does not bother you, than by all means, do your own thang.

Just for the record, the gal I met from this post, was dressed OK for the average afterwork watering hole [i.e. str8ville]. The comments I made were directed toward the fact that this was not your average str8 bar with your average crowd -- it was a queer dive, and she was the most overdressed person there. Made all the more noticeable by the fact that she commented that she did not come from work. She had time to get caz for the group.

No, I pretty much agree with Thundra on the aspect that if you are very concerned with passing (and I know quite a few are and I don't blame them) you need to learn to dress appropriately for the time and place.  When T-girls first start transitioning, I imagine it's like how I had to learn what to wear and when to wear it when I was coming of age. For some women it comes easier than others and for some women it takes a lot of practice (for me it is still taking practice, are you kidding? )  If you are dead set on dressing to the nines go for it, but don't be surprised if you either get clocked at every turn or stared at (and not in that good happy fun way) because you are drawing attention to yourself by being too dressy for a casual occasion.

I know its tempting to go out being as pretty as you can and it might seem silly to dress down when you think you don't look quite as good that way, but just think how irritating it would be if it were a social requirement to look our best at all times (i.e. wear formal attire everywhere) it would take the specialness out of special occasions and if you look as gorgeous as you can all of the time then you would never get to feel especially pretty because it would be a common occurance. Plus, it can also backfire. Here's a story:

I went to a semi-formal dance my senior year with some girlfriends. Not to brag, but I did look absolutely amazing. I had my hair professionally done and I let my Mom do my makeup (which might as well have been professional because she's amazing at it and I was still 16 and not quite as skillful as I am now).  At the dance I met a boy from another school that came as a favor to his cousin. We hit off in the looks department (let's just say I wasn't interested in him for his brains!) and danced together all night. We exchanged numbers and later that week went on a date to the movies. Being the movies, I did not dress semi-formal (of course) and I wore a baby doll tee, toned-down makeup, and a cute ponytail. When he saw me, he stared and said "You look really different." and proceeded to stay about 10 ft away from me the entire date. I was a little hurt by it, but really not all that fazed. Like I said, I wasn't interested in him for his brains... >

The moral of the story: Keep your best face in the bank and you'll be saving face!

My lesbian girlfriends/flings liked me because I am femme.  Even if I dress down to what appears to be the local dyke dress code consisting of a polo shirt and slacks, I still stand out because of the long hair and the use of cosmetics.  That said, when I was still frequenting lesbian bars I wore slacks and a really nice top unless I was on a date.  Then it would be the LBD. 

I pass fine when I'm hanging with my lesbian friends and I dress for the scene it's pretty self explainitory really, if someone was to inspect my wardrobe they'd probably assume dyke.

On the subject of makeup: I don't like it, a little eyeliner occasionally and I generally use mascara because it works well on me but that's it, I don't like looking like my face as been painted.

Quote from: angelsgirl on April 02, 2007, 09:27:03 AM
No, I pretty much agree with Thundra on the aspect that if you are very concerned with passing (and I know quite a few are and I don't blame them) you need to learn to dress appropriately for the time and place.  When T-girls first start transitioning, I imagine it's like how I had to learn what to wear and when to wear it when I was coming of age. For some women it comes easier than others and for some women it takes a lot of practice (for me it is still taking practice, are you kidding? )  If you are dead set on dressing to the nines go for it, but don't be surprised if you either get clocked at every turn or stared at (and not in that good happy fun way) because you are drawing attention to yourself by being too dressy for a casual occasion.

I know its tempting to go out being as pretty as you can and it might seem silly to dress down when you think you don't look quite as good that way, but just think how irritating it would be if it were a social requirement to look our best at all times (i.e. wear formal attire everywhere) it would take the specialness out of special occasions and if you look as gorgeous as you can all of the time then you would never get to feel especially pretty because it would be a common occurance. Plus, it can also backfire. Here's a story:

I went to a semi-formal dance my senior year with some girlfriends. Not to brag, but I did look absolutely amazing. I had my hair professionally done and I let my Mom do my makeup (which might as well have been professional because she's amazing at it and I was still 16 and not quite as skillful as I am now).  At the dance I met a boy from another school that came as a favor to his cousin. We hit off in the looks department (let's just say I wasn't interested in him for his brains!) and danced together all night. We exchanged numbers and later that week went on a date to the movies. Being the movies, I did not dress semi-formal (of course) and I wore a baby doll tee, toned-down makeup, and a cute ponytail. When he saw me, he stared and said "You look really different." and proceeded to stay about 10 ft away from me the entire date. I was a little hurt by it, but really not all that fazed. Like I said, I wasn't interested in him for his brains... >

The moral of the story: Keep your best face in the bank and you'll be saving face!

good post AG. I would like to add that just as if not more important for a Tgirl is to dress her age. That doesn't mean it isnt cute, sexy or fun or anything like that but what I am discovering are many TG's that tend toward the really young clothes 0 prolly because they missed out on all that teen stuff. But dressing our ages is as important asd dressing for the atmosphere.,

Oh, yes, that is true.  Jocelyn likes to put her hair in pigtails. I tell her it's her call if she wants to wear them out, but it's probably going to draw unwanted attention. She did it once or twice, but I think she got exactly what she didn't want and stopped doing it.

I went through a brief period last year where I was dressing just a bit too young (or rather for the wrong body type) and quickly adjusted.  Fortunately, this pretty much was in private.  Now I dress my age and I love it because the clothes I like are age appropriate.

Regarding makeup, I pretty much only do full makeup for work (in an office) and special occasions where I need to dress up.  Otherwise I love putting on a bit of eyeliner and perhaps some moisteurizer and that's it.  Last Sunday I was so grubby: hair a mess, absolutely no makeup and I hadn't shaved.  I didn't seem to have any problems though.

Regarding the subject of dressing appropriately for a lesbian bar, I pretty much only wear jeans and I have trouble passing.  I consider myself bi, so I don't feel I am limited to strict "lesbian dress code" since I don't care if I attract men as well.

Melissa