Trans woman dies in police custody in Cuba
Reports that transgender woman was victim of police brutality in Cuba
19 January 2012 | By Paul Canning

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans-woman-dies-police-custody-cuba

Florida-based news website Cubanet is reporting that a young transgender woman has been beaten to death in police custody in Cuba.

Eighteen-year-old Leidel Luis, who was known as Jessica, originally from the province of Santiago de Cuba and who lived with her partner named Yariel in Las Tunas, died after receiving a brutal beating in Guáimaro in Camaguey, southern Cuba.

I wonder what Michael Moore, of Sicko fame, has to say about the penal system in Cuba?

The penal system in Cuba has a lot fewer people in it per capita then the prison industry in the US has.

Quote from: tekla on January 19, 2012, 11:00:06 PM
The penal system in Cuba has a lot fewer people in it per capita then the prison industry in the US has.

On the bright side, beating prisoners to death doesn't count against your capital punishment count.

Quote from: Jamie D on January 19, 2012, 10:52:02 PM
I wonder what Michael Moore, of Sicko fame, has to say about the penal system in Cuba?

I think he wants Guantanamo Bay closed.

Now I wonder what you have to say about the fact that in Cuba you get SRS for free, paid for by the state?

Quote from: Jamie D on January 20, 2012, 01:46:47 AM
On the bright side, beating prisoners to death doesn't count against your capital punishment count.

Not trying to be a bum but frankly the USA is on par with most stable dictatorships in the world including cuba. US police beat prisoners to death all the time.

Officers in question get away free.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/11/jail-abuse-nick-christie-pepper-spray-florida_n_1192412.html

Quote from: Joandelynn on January 20, 2012, 02:34:33 AM
I think he wants Guantanamo Bay closed.

Now I wonder what you have to say about the fact that in Cuba you get SRS for free, paid for by the state?

This is what I have to say (from the Bilerico Project):

    Since its creation as a working group in 1979, the National Commission for Integral Care of Transsexual People has received 92 applications and has confirmed the diagnosis of 27 transsexuals, two ->-bleeped-<-s and two effeminate male homosexuals, according to "La transexualidad en Cuba" (Transsexualism in Cuba), a book published by CENESEX in May.

    Of the 27 diagnosed transsexuals, 19 hope to undergo surgery. The other eight do not, but they want to legally change their gender identity. So far, 13 have been able to change their names and replace the photo on their identity cards, and seven are waiting for approval of the process by the Justice Ministry.

    Only two of the 27 are female-to-male transgender persons, and the statistics include the male-to-female transsexual who underwent surgery in 1988 and has lived as a woman since then.

    More than half of them live in Havana, and they range in age from 31 to 40. Most are white, only five completed secondary school, and eight have been accepted as members of the Cuban Women's Federation (FMC), the only women's association in this Caribbean island nation.

Welcome to another socialist workers paradise!

Quote from: pebbles on January 20, 2012, 02:42:41 AM
Not trying to be a bum but frankly the USA is on par with most stable dictatorships in the world including cuba. US police beat prisoners to death all the time.

Officers in question get away free.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/11/jail-abuse-nick-christie-pepper-spray-florida_n_1192412.html

Classic tu quoque fallacy.

That would be true, IF, if, if - if she was the first one to raise the comparison between the US and Cuba, and she didn't, you did by bringing MM and Sicko into the argument, thus doing it yourself.  Circle takes the square and the game, but we'll be sending you on with the home version of our game.

Quote from: tekla on January 20, 2012, 11:18:37 AM
That would be true, IF, if, if - if she was the first one to raise the comparison between the US and Cuba, and she didn't, you did by bringing MM and Sicko into the argument, thus doing it yourself.  Circle takes the square and the game, but we'll be sending you on with the home version of our game.

I read the reply as an attempted justification of the Cuban practice.

i.e. You can't criticize Cuba because you do it too.

I compared the Cuban penal system to the Cuban medical system, so laughably portrayed by Moore in his docucomedy.

The rules of formal debate (much like rules in a court of law) is that you can't attack your opponent by accusing them of a fallacy if you've opened the door by making a similar comparison first.  You also would have lost points for your comparison not being germane to the original argument since the issue was prisons and not medical care. 

Quote from: tekla on January 20, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
The rules of formal debate (much like rules in a court of law) is that you can't attack your opponent by accusing them of a fallacy if you've opened the door by making a similar comparison first.  You also would have lost points for your comparison not being germane to the original argument since the issue was prisons and not medical care.

Who was I debating?  I posed a rhetorical question, humorously pointing out the failings of the Cuban social system.

poor thing. why are they so cruel. I suppose communism doesn't work after all

Quote from: Jamie D on January 20, 2012, 12:21:49 PM
I read the reply as an attempted justification of the Cuban practice.

No, it was an attempt to show you that you have no right judging other countries while your own country isn't known for respecting human rights either. I see you conveniently ignored what I wrote about Guantanamo Bay.

Quote from: batgirl on January 20, 2012, 11:22:19 PM
poor thing. why are they so cruel. I suppose communism doesn't work after all

Well, look up how transgendered people are being treated by the police in Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess your exported "democracy" isn't working either.

This thread makes me sick. I don't care if you don't like socialism, but don't abuse a terrible event like this to vent your own anti-socialist propaganda. What happened to that woman has nothing to do with socialism, crap like this happens all over the world.

It's the right wing mantra, like Sara Palin's kid being a teenage single mom, or Newts' 3 marriages - it's only wrong when other people do it.

Quote from: Joandelynn on January 21, 2012, 11:59:48 AM

"I read the reply as an attempted justification of the Cuban practice."

No, it was an attempt to show you that you have no right judging other countries while your own country isn't known for respecting human rights either. I see you conveniently ignored what I wrote about Guantanamo Bay.

"Let he without sin cast the first stone" ?

Cuba is a repressive, tyrannical, authoritarian state.  How it has become the paragon of socialist virtue for the ultra-left is beyond me.

I did address your screed about free srs in Cuba.  As far as Guantanamo Bay (detention center) is concerned, it seem the current occupant of the White House has decided it should remain open.  Any questions?

Quote from: Joandelynn on January 21, 2012, 11:59:48 AM
Well, look up how transgendered people are being treated by the police in Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess your exported "democracy" isn't working either.

This thread makes me sick. I don't care if you don't like socialism, but don't abuse a terrible event like this to vent your own anti-socialist propaganda. What happened to that woman has nothing to do with socialism, crap like this happens all over the world.

I have obviously made an insensitive joke but there's no need to label me as some kind of globalist, capitalist war monger.

You'd probably be in a fit of laughter if this poor girl wasn't transgender. I do have empathy and I really do feel for someone who's suffered like that but there is only so much empathy one can feel for a stranger on the other side of the world.

The original topic is a report of police brutality resulting in the death of a trans woman, please keep discussion on topic. This isn't the place to discuss merits of socialism, communism or capitalism, Guantanamo Bay, etc. There is a political area of the forum if anyone wishes to continue these.

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