How Bradley Manning's fate will be decided


The soldier accused of giving files to WikiLeaks will likely face a court-martial -- we explain how it works

By Justin Elliott | Saturday, Jan 21, 2012 2:00 PM UTC

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/21/how_bradley_mannings_fate_will_be_decided/singleton/


Army Pfc. Bradley Manning is escorted by military police from the courthouse after the sixth day of his Article 32 hearing at Fort Meade, Maryland, December 21, 2011.  (Credit: Benjamin Myers / Reuters)


This week, Bradley Manning came one step closer to being tried for allegedly leaking a trove of secret American cables to WikiLeaks when a military officer made the formal recommendation that Manning should face a court-martial on 22 criminal charges.

One of the counts, aiding the enemy, carries the possibility of the death penalty, but prosecutors have already said they will not seek it in Manning's case.

Manning will spend many, many years in prison.

I realise he has been a traitor to his country. But I feel sorry for him. He doesn't seem to be the ingrained long term spy who quietly moled into top secrets and sold them to their 'masters'. He seems much more of a fool who didn't realise letting internet emails out to other people was being traitorous. That he was allowed to by his superiors is unconscionable. He should not be the only one on trial.

The world has changed. But the rules have remained the same. A radio message saying that the Bismark was leaving her harbour was fantastic intelligence in WII. Telling someone what underwear someone is wearing and that they like fetish activity doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore, you cannot blackmail someone into treason for that. Hell you have grunts peeing on bodies, and that is considered classified. Not sure why.

Damn sure enemy peeing on USA soldiers would be classified. Damn sure it wouldn't.

I did not and do not mean this post to offend; particularly to anyone who have lost people in this conflict. I just think a fool is being hanged out to dry. And those who live under rocks will be safe.

Y'all.

Of all places to misgender someone.  Really?

Manning is a trans woman.  Her name is Breanna and she's identified as such for a pretty good long time.  Enough for everyone to get used to it, and especially for a trans forum to get used to it.  Christ, people.  This has been around for a while. 

Oh really? Not in Australian media

I'm using what is in the electronic and printed media and I now see your media report. Considering the USA judicial system I'm not sure what to think of it.

If I'm wrong I'll stand corrected, I mean no offence but the clouds have been created

Cindy James

I'm really conflicted here. I want to kind of respect Manning for yanking the government's pants down, especially after the Indefinite detention bill was signed in last year. But at the same time, what he did was wrong. But then again, Americans committed treason against the King of England all those years ago. So I'll let history decide whether Manning did good or not.
I wish Manning had been anything but [possibly] transgender, because this is going to really hurt us at some point.

They didn't do anything wrong they just showed how vicious the US action aboard is with the wholesale slaughter of innocent bystanders... Whitch everybody else in the entire world already knows Except for those inside the US for some idiotic reason.

The label traitor is simply an excuse to hurt the one who showed you the mirror and made you look at yourself. Retreating back behind false and willfully ignorent notions of National pride against the "Others"

Wake up and ACCEPT what you are, Tell me yourself are you a nation of murderers, supported by complicit accomplices. Or a league of murderers supported by a nation of idiots who just don't know any better.

If your won't look yourself then perhaps the only way the pepole of the US will ever learn of the atrocities they commit daily are if they themselves brutally subjugated and tortured so they can see the horrors they endorse and commit first hand.

In whitch case the Theocratic bigoted state your gradually decaying into is a well earned end.

Grow up.

Quote from: pebbles on January 23, 2012, 06:58:58 AM
They didn't do anything wrong they just showed how vicious the US action aboard is with the wholesale slaughter of innocent bystanders... Whitch everybody else in the entire world already knows Except for those inside the US for some idiotic reason.

The label traitor is simply an excuse to hurt the one who showed you the mirror and made you look at yourself. Retreating back behind false and willfully ignorent notions of National pride against the "Others"

Wake up and ACCEPT what you are, Tell me yourself are you a nation of murderers, supported by complicit accomplices. Or a league of murderers supported by a nation of idiots who just don't know any better.

If your won't look yourself then perhaps the only way the pepole of the US will ever learn of the atrocities they commit daily are if they themselves brutally subjugated and tortured so they can see the horrors they endorse and commit first hand.

In whitch case the Theocratic bigoted state your gradually decaying into is a well earned end.

++


Do you realize how contrived and pedantic this sounds?    Not to bash your opinion which I'm not too far off from agreeing with in some ways,  but this literally sounds lifted right off of some website that hates America.  Sounds like you have memorized little sound bites that you think sound good.  But really it just comes across as "Hey wonder where she copied that from."    Especially when you have typical spelling errors that speak to lack of good writing skills.  Ex:  It's "you're gradually decaying into"  not "your."

Just a heads up as a teacher and a writer.  If you want people to take you seriously don't do that.  LOL   


[/old lady/teacher]


IMO  everyone in a war is at risk.   No soldier should ever ever ever do anything that puts other soldiers at risk.  Like the ones that peed on the dead bodies.   Way to guarantee that the next group of American soldiers that are caught by some zealots will be tortured and maimed.

Their actions are just as criminal as this.   If you don't want to keep the commitment then don't sign up.  So,  sorry no pity for this soldier.

The vast majority of information that was leaked was not military, but State Department stuff, mostly about how our 'allies' weren't.

I don't care if they leaked ONE piece of military information and that information was the password to get the toilet paper.   You don't compromise military security.  I'm not a patriot.  It is simply unfair to the men and women who are serving.  I tend to see certain things in black and white.  This is one of them.  You do not compromise military security in any shape or form.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on January 23, 2012, 04:01:40 AM
Y'all.

Of all places to misgender someone.  Really?

Manning is a trans woman.  Her name is Breanna and she's identified as such for a pretty good long time.  Enough for everyone to get used to it, and especially for a trans forum to get used to it.  Christ, people.  This has been around for a while.

Interesting point, this was not a case of misgendering but of using the name in the article as written.

Quote from: mixie on January 23, 2012, 09:08:24 AM
I don't care if they leaked ONE piece of military information and that information was the password to get the toilet paper.   You don't compromise military security.  I'm not a patriot.  It is simply unfair to the men and women who are serving.  I tend to see certain things in black and white.  This is one of them.  You do not compromise military security in any shape or form.

As a Veteran...Thank You for that observation! Regardless if the information was Military or Civilian/Diplomatic, Classified is Classified, Restricted is Restricted and National Security is National Security Information. Albeit that the Army clearly screwed up and should have pull Manning's Security Clearance awhile back, Manning has to take responsibility for the actions commited.

Quote from: SandraJane on January 23, 2012, 12:19:37 PM
Interesting point, this was not a case of misgendering but of using the name in the article as written.


As a Veteran...Thank You for that observation! Regardless if the information was Military or Civilian/Diplomatic, Classified is Classified, Restricted is Restricted and National Security is National Security Information. Albeit that the Army clearly screwed up and should have pull Manning's Security Clearance awhile back, Manning has to take responsibility for the actions commited.

I don't see it quite as clear cut though. Look at how Manning's superiors knew she was becoming a problem. But yet their inaction's are going unpunished. She was acting out and erratically but hey, it's business as usual. Which is why I see this whole trial as a sham.  Don't get me wrong, I don't condone Manning's actions, but I don't see why she should be the only one on trial here. Especially since I was taught that there is no 'I' in a unit, you are a team.

Quote from: Keaira on January 23, 2012, 04:56:44 AM
I'm really conflicted here. I want to kind of respect Manning for yanking the government's pants down, especially after the Indefinite detention bill was signed in last year. But at the same time, what he did was wrong. But then again, Americans committed treason against the King of England all those years ago. So I'll let history decide whether Manning did good or not.
I wish Manning had been anything but [possibly] transgender, because this is going to really hurt us at some point.

The colonial Americans invoked the natural right to revolution in response to what they felt was oppression and tyranny.

I have not seen any evidence that Manning's gender dysphoria played a part in the alleged crimes.  Certainly, he was in an unhappy and stressful situation because of his sexual orientation.  His motivation to leak classified materials, however, seems political.

Everyone involved should go down as well. 

The colonial Americans invoked the natural right to revolution in response to what they felt was oppression and tyranny

1. The colonial Americans invented that 'natural right of revolution' out of whole cloth.  No such 'right' existed before they came up with it.
2. Natural right or not, what they did was treason, and unlike yourself, they completely understood that.  That we don't call it treason is proof that we won, had they lost, they would have hung - no doubt about it.

Quote from: tekla on January 23, 2012, 01:21:27 PM
The colonial Americans invoked the natural right to revolution in response to what they felt was oppression and tyranny

1. The colonial Americans invented that 'natural right of revolution' out of whole cloth.  No such 'right' existed before they came up with it.
2. Natural right or not, what they did was treason, and unlike yourself, they completely understood that.  That we don't call it treason is proof that we won, had they lost, they would have hung - no doubt about it.

1. I would credit John Locke's Treatises on Government (late 1600s) as the immediate inspiration.  However, Jefferson's phrasing in the Declaration of Independence amplifies the concept.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

2. I am well aware that the Founders recognized their peril, thus:

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

The Treaty of 1783, recognizing independence, absolved the revolutionaries of any charge of treason.

Quote from: Jamie D on January 23, 2012, 01:42:40 PM
1. I would credit John Locke's Treatises on Government (late 1600s) as the immediate inspiration.  However, Jefferson's phrasing in the Declaration of Independence amplifies the concept.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

2. I am well aware that the Founders recognized their peril, thus:

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

The Treaty of 1783, recognizing independence, absolved the revolutionaries of any charge of treason.

Quote from: tekla on January 23, 2012, 01:21:27 PM
The colonial Americans invoked the natural right to revolution in response to what they felt was oppression and tyranny

1. The colonial Americans invented that 'natural right of revolution' out of whole cloth.  No such 'right' existed before they came up with it.
2. Natural right or not, what they did was treason, and unlike yourself, they completely understood that.  That we don't call it treason is proof that we won, had they lost, they would have hung - no doubt about it.

Quote from: Jamie D on January 23, 2012, 12:51:24 PM
The colonial Americans invoked the natural right to revolution in response to what they felt was oppression and tyranny.

I have not seen any evidence that Manning's gender dysphoria played a part in the alleged crimes.  Certainly, he was in an unhappy and stressful situation because of his sexual orientation.  His motivation to leak classified materials, however, seems political.

Okay, I love history too, but this thread is about Bradley Manning's fate not the history of the American Revolution. Some good points made but let's stay on track please! 

Thank You!

I tend to get off on tangents.  Sorry.

The tangent, of course, is "Were Manning's alleged actions treasonable?"

So I'll stick with my original statement - he's going to prison for a long time. 

Quote from: Cindy James on January 23, 2012, 02:32:55 AM
I realise he has been a traitor to his country. But I feel sorry for him. He doesn't seem to be the ingrained long term spy who quietly moled into top secrets and sold them to their 'masters'.

That's exactly what a country searches for in a disposable spy. Someone with extremely low self esteem, no friends, a poor self image.

All it would take is another country "being buddies" with him.

I certainly hope he reflects on this....because he is going to be in prison for a VERY long time.