I was checking out that recent story about Nicole Sanders spending 200k on surgery to look female, and well, it still looks like she was born male. Regardless of whether she was born male or female, she's one of those people who bypassers would pinpoint as a possible transexual - because of her long midface (article comments prove it). This IMO contrasts with passing as passing (at least to me) means blending in - avoiding thoughts of birth sex coming up etc...

I happen to have a long midface... when I keep my face straight, eyes open and mouth flat and measure from my waterline (bottom of visible eye) to the corner of my mouth I get 6.8cm. My chin is kinda small for a guy - 4cm, and hairline to chin distance is 7 and 3/4 inches. There's absolutely no way I can pass or look even just a little bit female with my face straight (not smiling), and about 90% of the time I'm not smiling.

This is the main thing preventing me from deciding fully whether I want to transition or not. After more than a year on HRT I still look like a freak when I put on make-up. I don't even cross-dress because I get depressed, it's more of a check-up thing - if I'm feeling feminine one day I might try on some make-up with the hope that HRT had changed things somewhat since the last time, but it always looks the same.

What I wanna ask is, is it really that difficult to pass/be pretty with a long midface and is there any way around it? Maybe an illusion that prevents people from focusing on that area? I mean, I have seen women pass fine with long midfaces... but they had some sort of a bite issue - like overbite or maybe a receded chin. So it was more a defect thing, the ones without orthodontic problems seem to have a harder time passing.

And are there things we should avoid (with FFS, makeup etc) that could bring forward a long midface... such as narrowing the jaw too much?

Also let's not argue about the true meaning of passing, other ways to pass (voice, movement etc), or whether the term "midface" refers to the distance between eyebrows and mouth (something I find statistically useless) or eyes to mouth. Thanks.

Nope- there is nothing you can do with a long face, really. The "best" you could do is to put in huge jumbo-implants in the cheaks, which might on the other hand not necessarily give a goodlooking result.

As for Nicole, I disagree that she would not look okay- She is not 100% passable, no, and she is also not seldomly "outed" because of her looks, but she is nonetheless able to snatch hot guys, so apparently she can't be too badlooking, so to speak.

It is also very much dependant on what type of makeup is used. For instance, Powder will make the face look "rougher", and using a lot of powder on a face that have masculine features is not a good idea.


Anyway, compaire these clips with Nicole to how she looks on still-pictures, and you will see that even a longish and apparently transsexual face can indeed be considered pretty and even beautiful:

To me, Nicole just looks so plastic and probably not really a good example of what could be done for that shape of face. Even a non-trans woman who got that much plastic surgery would start looking so unnatural that they could easily be thought to be trans. Not saying that plastic equals trans, but its just the look, like an overdone drag queen.    No offense to drag queens.

Quote from: Beverley on January 24, 2012, 10:25:02 AM
OK - in my opinion, what Nicole Sanders is doing wrong is her hair style. She has a long face surrounded by a long hairstyle because she wants to be Barbie.

Yeah I've noticed that tying hair back takes attention away from a long face. But I also think if the area underneath her cheeks was fuller it would give her face a more heart/oval shape.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 24, 2012, 09:59:56 AM
Nope- there is nothing you can do with a long face, really. The "best" you could do is to put in huge jumbo-implants in the cheaks, which might on the other hand not necessarily give a goodlooking result.

Cheek implants + long face would make you look like an alien (unless you have small cheeks to start off with). The lack of volume in the sub-malar area would become even more prominent. I was thinking more along the lines of jaw implants or BSSO.

Quote from: Beverley on January 24, 2012, 10:25:02 AM
Well then... smile more. Seriously. Practice until it is a habit.

I do try this but I can't when I'm concentrating (at work for example). It almost feels like my facial expression naturally droops and smiling is like carrying a weight constantly. I've even thought of getting a face life but at 22 there're too many risks associated.

A long face in itself won't prevent you from passing necessarily. There would have to be many other features that would have to be also masculine for it to be the case. Without a picture it's difficult to tell, but Sarah Jessica Parker has a particularly long midface, but she still looks female.

Kia Ora,

It's all about being realistic when it comes to ones expectations...

But sadly it would seem many young[and not so young] pre-transition trans-females, don't just want to 'pass' as their 'correct' gender identity, they want to be beautiful super models...

Plastic surgery can at times work wonders but not 'miracles'...Bone structure is bone structure and Mother Nature provides what she provides, one must make the most of what they were given and learn to accept this... 

And to add the old cliche when it comes to looks= "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!" or "One man's meat is another man's poison !" 

Metta Zenda

She has a long face.

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and so does she
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and so do these lovely ladies



and of course, so does Sarah Jessica Parker
and they all pass just fine.


I have a long face too, and I'm working on being more passable.
Maybe once I give myself a little more time on hrt and get laser.
but other than that, its dumb to say that long face = transsexual.

The only reason why Nicole Sanders is clocked is because everyone knows shes trans, there's articles about her everywhere.
It's just stupid bait for drama and hate comments waiting to appear.

Quote from: Assoluta on January 24, 2012, 02:12:52 PM
A long face in itself won't prevent you from passing necessarily. There would have to be many other features that would have to be also masculine for it to be the case. Without a picture it's difficult to tell, but Sarah Jessica Parker has a particularly long midface, but she still looks female.

It would be interesting to know, however, how many people would interpret Sarah as being Bio-female from that pic alone, if no-one knew who she were?

"There are people who need FFS"

Unfortunately I'm one of them, I just don't know what to do. Make-up makes me look worse, and I've already tried bangs.

And as Bishounen said, Sarah Jessica Parker could be mistaken for a transexual, she certainly has the right characteristics, so she doesn't exactly "pass fine". My statement wasn't confined to transexuals as there are plently of bio-women who don't blend in completely.

The women in the two videos and the brunette in the pix JoeyD posted, all look like they could have been were born male, however the one in the first video passes the best I think because of her overall face shape - which is kinda what I'm trying to figure out - how to create that distraction for people to no longer focus on your long face, by amplifying other facial features in a positive way.

For example, one of the downsides to having a long midface means a hollow region between your cheeks and jaws as there is not enought fat to fill them completely. I think the girl in the second video is a good example of this and would look a lot more feminine if her face was less bony (more fat), but her body already acts as a good enough distracion.

I also believe my face is longer that the girls posted above, but it's hard to compare measurements when you can't find any to compare to. The average face length for a female seems to be between 18 and 19cm, so I'm around 1cm out, but that wouldn't be a big deal if it just meant a long chin. Is 6.8cm really as long as it looks for a midface?

I don't think posting cis girls with long faces is a very good comparison.

People never seem to understand this but having one or two masculine features on a cis girl is a totally different thing than having a super masculine feature on an MTF. An MTF needs all the help they can get, so a really masculine feature can make it very hard to pass, whereas a cis girl has mostly feminine features so just a single masculine feature is never going to be a big deal, they will still look female.

Would a long face prevent a CIS girl from passing? Probably almost never.

Would a long face prevent a transgirl from passing? Yes, a lot of the time.

Hard to say without a picture, anyway.

Hi 8888,

I know it's easier said than done. But just remember,when all is said and done. Don't look AT the looking glass; look THROUGH the looking glass.

Reach in, and find that person who is going to resonate every single fibre in your being, right through to the absolute core of your existence. Trust me. She is in there.It's in everyone. We all have it.

It's when this person is validated and brought forward to her rightful place; that irrespective of what you look like, people won't care less, even if you have two heads on your shoulder. They'll just WANT to KNOW you. You WILL radiate, I promise you.

I'm in total awe of our 'gifted' community. The ones who may not be able to do things as fast as we can, or are not as clever as we are. I'm talking about the disabled in our community. Which in itself is the greatest oxymoron known.

We are the ones who are truly disabled, by comparison. All that I have met, have a true richness and beauty of mind and soul beyond my comprehension. I'd need to be here for at least 3 lifetimes, just to come within coo-ee of their understanding.

So take heart 8888, and look far beyond that mask you see and find your inner beauty.

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine.

(Ref: "Coo-ee". Aussie slang for coming within a country mile of someone/thing.  -  "A country mile."  in Aussie slang is a distance rarely less than 10 miles, ranging up to several hundred. Some people living in regional Oz can have a journey in excess of 3 hours to their next door neighbour. They are often referred to as being,"just down the road." How many people would you pass in 3 hours ??)

Is there really nothing you can do to reduce a long midface? I belive its possible to do a maxillary impaction (also know as Lefort I), which cuts a part of the maxila and thus reduces the distance between the subnasal and the upper lip. There's also Lefort II, which cuts the nasal bone, but I don't know if its possible to reduce the length of the nose that way. I only have seen people getting maxillary impaction to shorten their mid faces, but not lefort II.

Right now I'm looking for a surgeon to get Lefort I done because I wanna look better. I have social issues and it's all because of how I look.