Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

Does Disney Live Off Of Gay Jokes?

Started by Cody Jensen, January 30, 2012, 02:57:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cody Jensen

Ok excuse my rant I just want to say that IN NO WAY IS THIS MEANT OFFENSIVE. I'm getting frustrated with Disney. It's like, there's a gay/trans joke in EVERY movie or something. Came back from Beauty and the Beast in 3D last night.

"I KNOW it's a girl!" says the talking clock (wow can't believe his name slipped my mind).

Then the animated Tangled short before that had that "joke" about Maximus the horse, in a dress and lip gloss, and another male horse hitting on him. Plenty of these jokes in the Shrek movies (The Ugly Step Sister). And there's a bunch of other movies too that have at least one gay/trans joke in them. I just got really offended and was thinking "jesus Disney,  a movie doesn't need a gay joke to be funny".

Anyone else with me on this?
Derp

"I just don't know what went wrong!"
  •  

~RoadToTrista~

Mmm, well no, I like the ugly step-sister on Shrek, lolz. :P

The Beauty and the Beast thing doesn't really have anything to do with transgenders.
  •  

Cody Jensen

Hmm. Maybe it's just me being much more sensitive to this stuff now.
Derp

"I just don't know what went wrong!"
  •  

spacial

Could be Cody. But I don't think you should put yourself down for being sensitive.

We have made enormous strides, I can barely believe it myself. But there's still a long way to go.
  •  

Cody Jensen

@spacial not looking forward to the long way :(
Derp

"I just don't know what went wrong!"
  •  

King Malachite

I haven't watched too many Disney movies to notice but I figured since Disney Land has gay pride days they can't be too offensive
Feel the need to ask me something or just want to check out my blog?  Then click below:

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135882.0.html


"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
  •  

Cody Jensen

Quote from: Malachite on January 30, 2012, 04:19:23 PM
I figured since Disney Land has gay pride days they can't be too offensive

true
Derp

"I just don't know what went wrong!"
  •  

Devlyn

If we're talking about Walt Disney, I believe he lives off of liquid nitrogen! Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

Berserk

Quote from: Malachite on January 30, 2012, 04:19:23 PM
I haven't watched too many Disney movies to notice but I figured since Disney Land has gay pride days they can't be too offensive

Lots of organisations claim to be queer/trans positive yet it doesn't reflect at all in how they operate. It's basically paying lip service. Just as many sports organisations claim to take a stand against racism, and yet it continues to run rampant within the various policies and actions these organisations create.

And no, I don't think you are being oversensitive, Cody. Homophobia and transphobia are so engrained in society that a lot of people don't think twice when they hear gay or trans jokes.
  •  

tekla

Disney lives off merchandising (Pretty much like a lot of rock bands).  The only reason that they have done some of those movies was so that they can have more stuff to sell  in the theme parks, the Disney Stores, and of course catalogs and the internet.  They were movies that had toy marketing campaigns long before they had a plot.  It's pretty obvious (and I'm just talking about the animated features) that they really quite trying in the 60's, Jungle Book in '67 is the last one with any real roll to it at all.  And, at that, I'm being charitable - really Disney as Art ends in '59 with Sleeping Beauty.  Before that is an awesome catalog including Fantasia, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, Peter Pan, Bambi, Dumbo, Pinoccio, and even Walt's extremely whitened up Alice in Wonderland.  After that, not so much.  Until Pixar reinvented and re-imagined animation for Disney.

Anyway I doubt they are making bank writing that stuff in hoping the the anti-gay people will support them because they are making jokes, or that gay people will get on board because they are being included or anything like that.  I think it's there, like it's always been there in the Arts, on the margins, alluded to, hinted at because the Arts were one of the few places where its been more or less OK to be gay (and any number of other sexual deviations), and always has.  One of problems that mainstream conservatives have with Art.  It's how come Artists get lumped in with liberal bleeding hearts.  So there have been lots of oblique references in Art over they years as a way of declaring to those that care, and as a way to reach out and acknowledge that the 'love that you can't name' was alive and doing well.  We're recruiting you know.  Everyone knew it.  Art is for ->-bleeped-<-s - something I heard a lot growing up - has long been true.

I think it's just a lot more obvious in the more recent stuff because (choose as many as you want): a) they don't have writers and artists like they used to, and subtly is a high art form, so what you're left with is clumsy and obvious attempts b) audiences are not as smart, quick or understanding and things have to be put in very simple terms so you can't miss it c)The Gay Agenda at work (and doing lunch too) d) affirmative action.


And I think that Disneyland/World etc, went gay pride very early.  Early for a huge major corporation - light years ahead of where you would have expected them too, what being a 'family' centered business and clientele.  And, it's cost them.  Maybe not much as they were able to deal with the Christian boycott by upping South America visitors (DisneyWorld is the number one destination for South American tourists), but they get a pretty steady hate rolling in from some quarters in the Christian right.  And they knew that would happen, but they did it anyway.  And they did it anyway because for the most part, Disney (like the rest of the industry) is pretty damn gay.  No other industry has the number of out gay men in critical positions with huge money as does the star making machinery behind pop culture. And more than being a 'family' focused company, they were an international entertainment conglomerate and they followed that first.  It's pretty easy to understand that Disneyland HAD to have an open, accepting and tolerant policy towards gay people because large number of the 'cast' members, artists, and  - most of all - several top executives at Disney were/are gay.  Whatever else you can say about the entertainment industry it's pretty obvious that they are all about themselves.  It wouldn't do to have all those gay people who built the Disney empire (one frame at a time in the beginning) excluded from their own creation.

And jokes in general are pretty much part of human existence, and humor is particularly important in English speaking cultures for some reason.  You know the old saw by Oscar Wilde (gay playwright), the only thing worse than having people talk about you is having people not talk about you.  Unless you could demonstrate that there is some sort of out of wack obvious attack going on - like if every third joke was a gay joke - then it's just part of the general humor (and sexual humor, gay or otherwise, is a sure fire laugh getter).  And it's not like there isn't a hella lot of stuff in the gay culture/lifestyle/history that isn't funny.


Oh yeah, Sleeping Beauty was the last one that had an evil villain that was crazy, sexy cool.  Maleficent is almost a perfect personfication of pure evil as damn sexy.   It was the last time Disney allowed evil looked positively delicious (because in real life it is, that's what makes it so hard to resist.)  Queen Grimhilde was hot too, a bit on the white side, too much LA - but it was a good start.  However, after the 1950s that the powers that be thought that evil would best be represented as comical, then ugly, then fat.  Nothing comical about Maleficent or Grimhilde - you know that not only will they cut your heart out, they'll enjoy it.  And thin?  They are pretty much the original you can never be too rich to too thin girls.  Cruella was thin, but she was a hag,and a clown, it began a downward spiral that led to things like Ursula.  Shutter.


FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Jamie D

Quote from: tekla on January 31, 2012, 01:22:16 AM
SNIP

Oh yeah, Sleeping Beauty was the last one that had an evil villain that was crazy, sexy cool.  Maleficent is almost a perfect personfication of pure evil as damn sexy.   It was the last time Disney allowed evil looked positively delicious (because in real life it is, that's what makes it so hard to resist.)  Queen Grimhilde was hot too, a bit on the white side, too much LA - but it was a good start.  However, after the 1950s that the powers that be thought that evil would best be represented as comical, then ugly, then fat.  Nothing comical about Maleficent or Grimhilde - you know that not only will they cut your heart out, they'll enjoy it.  And thin?  They are pretty much the original you can never be too rich to too thin girls.  Cruella was thin, but she was a hag, and a clown, it began a downward spiral that led to things like Ursula.  Shutter.

An interesting observation.  But after Cruella de Ville in 1961, there wasn't much opportunity in a Disney animated feature to have an "evil, sexy" heavy.  From Jungle Book (1967) through Little Mermaid (1989) the films featured cartoon animals   (exception being The Black Cauldron).
  •  

Bishounen

People have claimed a lot of fluff-I mean stuff- about Disney. ::)

Description:
Quotethis video shows some of the most shocking hidden & subliminal messages of a hideous sexual nature in the film "Despicable Me".

Despicable Me - hidden & subliminal messages exposed

::)
  •  

tekla

Do animators sneak stuff in?  Sure, don't you ->-bleeped-<- around on your job too?  If it only holds for a frame or two no one (except for the crowd with far too much - terminal really - sexual repression and who also have way too much time on their hands and nothing creative to do with either) is going to notice.

Is there a lot of symbolism - well use of symbolism has long been considered a major tool for the arts, so sure.

Is there a lot of stuff in there?  Sure.  Was it intentional?  Yeah on the part of the trickster (and we're talking about people with an art education here) who drew it in.  On the part of Disney as a corporate policy?  Nah.

There was lots of stuff about 'backwards masking' in rock songs, going to far as to put the rock band Judas Priest* on trial in Reno for causing the suicide of a kid.  (Really, I do wish I was making this up.)
read about it:
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=judes+priest+reno+trial%5C

Hell, some 'backwards message"?  Really?  That's what you're going with?  Hell, I live this stuff and I can't make out most of the lyrics w/o a lyric sheet.  And if you can't really understand it frontwards, how the hell is some metal head ripping bongs in the basement cranking this stuff way too loud on really, really craptastic speakers going to catch it?  The most cogent remark at that trial in Reno was Rob Haford trying to tell the proscuter that it was hard enough to make records that sounded good going one way, much less two.

I think all the time about how this band, or that band that I'm grooving too is 'satanic' and I ask people if it's the chords or the rhythm, the devil's own tuning?  No, it's in the lyrics.  OK, why doesn't the almighty prince of evil send down a singer who I can understand.  Someone like Frank Sinatra and not Cookie Monster at 100db (and in Norwegian too boot)?



* - of all metal bands JP is one of the least 'satanic' in terms of image, songs (hell, they do a Joan Baez cover, how freaking UNsatanic is doing Joan Baez?) and all the rest of those trappings (which usually don't actually include believing in the ->-bleeped-<-, it's a theme, not a reality), far less than Slayer (who seem to get it more right than anyone else in my mind, Reign in Blood is the real deal), or Marilyn Manson who actually called himself the Antichrist Superstar (but in reality ... well, never mind).  So I always thought they went after JP because Rob Halford was the first real metal guy to come out as openly gay in 1998.  And all the metal guys went 'WHAT?" (like the entire Folsom Street SF - and that's where he bought his first gay S/M leather studs outfits - wardrobe wan't a huge tip off?), then they thought a second and to everyone's surprise including Rob's and mine, they collectively said "We're OK with that."  In terms of deep cultural changes the metal heads being OK with Rob Halford being gay is a much deeper tectonic shift than Disney adopting an accepting corporate policy.


Anyway, just to clense the pallet after talking Disney, here's the previously mentioned Judes Priest from about the time they recorded the killer record.  It's also a pretty solid point in their career.  And really, 15 years after this he came out?  Was anyone surprised?  So here's a little Hellbent for Leather (ah-hum, the title alone should have been a huge tip off).  And Rob is one of the more articulate singers, how many words can you make out - besides Hellbent for Leather?  And really, look at the entire deal and tell me what part subtlety plays in it?
Judas Priest - Hell Bent For Leather (Live 1983)
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Cody Jensen

@Maya I know Shrek is not Disney I was just using it as another example.

@Tekla ...wow  :P i watched that video and to be honest couldn't hear anything through the noise. I also agree what you said about villains being "ugly" too.
Derp

"I just don't know what went wrong!"
  •