So I've recently discovered one of my biggest dysphoria triggers which is the idea of babies and pregnancy.  It just makes me feel really really bad, for lack of a better word.  I've always visualized the role of being with a woman then having a child to raise but it's just really unlikely.  I'm about to start hormones and can't really afford to store semen, and even if I did theres no guarantee it would take....and paying that much a year for a chance it will take for several years in hopes of finding a girl who WANTS to have a child is just...bleh!  I'm not the emotional type but this kills me...its like an impossible choice, unhappy as a man or fill unfulfilled and never have a child.  I know the option of adoption is on the table, but its just not the same for me.

DANGER - DYSPHORIA TRIGGER...
==========================
Honey, I CAN feel for you. It was one of MY biggest dysphoria items also.

I was in tears over it, - seeing babies, a pregnant female, and at times it needed no trigger and it was BAD. VERY bad. I honestly though I just wanted to die of sadness.

This, and I have to mention, having been progenitor to a son. To say 'fathered' sounds just SO wrong - for me! It just is part of this dysphoria. How to 'father' anything if you a woman?! We want to give birth! Not wait like some useless surplus for some surrogate to do it for us!

In my case, all I can share is, that it became only bearable after my SRS - why? Go figure, but so it went.

I mention this having a baby by some other female, even with your 'input' (sperm) is still one BIG difference to being actually pregnant with your very own child in your very own tummy.

Not sure if it's what you wanted to hear... but that is how it went with me.

Take care honey,
Axélle

I'm sorry to hear that.  Although if the possibility arose I would be more than willing to carry a child myself, i was relating more to having a girlfriend get pregnant.  My sexuality id guess would be considered lesbian so its possible but like i said just all the storing and expenses for the chance seems so unlikely. 

I don't know how fathering a child becomes an option. I mean, personally I would be grossed out at the thought of it but even aside from that it's just not fair to the child to make them a liability in your transition and a wedge in the often-resulting failed marriage (for those who are into women...)

I mean, sometimes I have to wonder how much self-respect people have with regard to their identity here. If you were born a woman you would not be having a child with a woman. Even if you were a lesbian. And I'm sorry, but if a woman has your child, I don't think she could very easily just think of you as something other than her child's father. Not mother. And, if you trust the research, children need a father figure. I don't think your wife is going to be the father figure either.

Okay, let's be honest here. Trans people are stuck with a bad hand in life.  HRT and medical technology has come a long way in correcting that but there are still going to be some drawbacks. It's your choice whether you want to accept those drawbacks and make the best of your actual and consistent transition, or spend it dancing between the borders of "man" and "woman" because of the obligations you created to different people that depend on you to fill a certain role.

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on February 04, 2012, 01:50:22 PM
pretty -  Thanks for pointing out that my gender identity is invalid and that lesbian parents are failures.  Keep up the good work doing whatever you do.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth  a lesbian can still be a father figure, but as an mtf who is constantly trying to be more feminine and wants to think of themselves as a mother, that's a little difficult don't you think?

What about single mothers? almost all of my friends are children of single mothers, they lack father figures, are you saying they are all maladjusted?

Quote from: El on February 04, 2012, 01:56:00 PM
What about single mothers? almost all of my friends are children of single mothers, they lack father figures, are you saying they are all maladjusted?

They are statistically more likely to be.

But if you think providing a stable home environment for your kid should not be a prerequisite for having a baby then by all means...

Single parents and homosexual couples can provide a stable home environment, we dont live in the 1930s. Most of the maladjusted people i know have parents that are still together

Quote from: El on February 04, 2012, 02:02:32 PM
Single parents and homosexual couples can provide a stable home environment, we dont live in the 1930s. Most of the maladjusted people i know have parents that are still together

Honestly, statistics disagree but it doesn't even matter to me.

Just going by what I've read here on susan's I would disagree.

Am I really the only one who thinks it's not good to constantly be reading here about bitter divorces caused by transition? And do you really think kids enjoy that? Does that really sound like a stable home environment?

Also anyone who has studied science past the age of 16 should know that corelation does not imply cause and effect. Just because there is a correlation between single parent households and children with behavioural problems doesnt mean its because of the single parent. It could be a single parent family because of the child with behavioural difficulties or even a third reason that causes the single parent family and the behaviourly challenged child or most likely of all it is a range of factors that add up to this situation

Quote from: El on February 04, 2012, 02:06:37 PM
Also anyone who has studied science past the age of 16 should know that corelation does not imply cause and effect. Just because there is a correlation between single parent households and children with behavioural problems doesnt mean its because of the single parent. It could be a single parent family because of the child with behavioural difficulties or even a third reason that causes the single parent family and the behaviourly challenged child or most likely of all it is a range of factors that add up to this situation

The single parenting thing isn't even really related to what I was saying but anyway, you can't make assumptions either way. Correlation does mean that, if not directly, then in the periphery at least, there is some issue related to not having a father that causes children to develop poorly more often than with a father.

I think one such issue might be "my father is becoming a woman." Transition is selfish. Kids need selfless attention. They just don't go together well, in my opinion, when it becomes a fight between managing your transition (and probably your marriage) and parenting your child.

Of course, it's not my decision to make for anyone else. I just think it's a decision that needs a lot of careful deliberation and honesty about the future and what kind of limitations it would place on one's transition.

Dont get me wrong, im glad i dont have children from before transition, it wouldnt be fair on them but what i reject is the assumption that children need a father figure. What a child needs is love not archaic gender binary nonsense. Doesnt matter if a child has one parent, a straight couple a gay couple or a polygamous family group, what matters is they are nurtured and cared for and loved.

And again i dont think you quite understand what i meant when i was talking about corelation, seriously i had to write an essay about corelational studies in psychology for my psych A level a few years ago, for once i actually know what im talking about.

Another thing that occured to me is it might be better to have a transitioning parent who is happy and can love you than a closeted trans parent who is clinically depressed because of it.

Quote from: Beverley on February 04, 2012, 02:31:34 PM
The way you phrase that you make it sound like people are planning to have kids and then transition.

The truth of the matter is that the bulk of MtF transitioners keep a lid on it and hope to get to the grave without transitioning but they usually lose the battle in their 40s and by then the family is established. Many of us (me included) never thought about transition, it was never a future option. I thought I was TV. I never thought I was TS.

I love women, women are wonderful and I fell in love with a wonderful one and I asked her to marry me and she said yes and we have had a wonderful time together. Our children are a delight to us even though they are teenagers. We are a happy family.

Then, in the middle of this, my dysphoria took over. I did not have any choices that meant anything anymore. Lack of sleep, every waking thought occupied with one thing - the irrepressible desire to transition, to be female in body as well as mind. My life was turned upside down. I did not want this to happen, I never planned for this to happen and I will do everything I can to stop it frm wrecking this family.

The future does not always turn out as we plan.

Beverley

Well, I have to be honest, I really have tried to empathize with this sort of scenario time and time again. But in the end I just can't. I just don't understand it. I don't understand how someone could live life as a male and just have it not occur to them. Personally, I was put into a male role by my birth sex and I failed, miserably. I couldn't have been a successful male if I tried. I wasn't comfortable in a male group of peers. I was constantly at odds with expectations of who I was supposed to be vs. who I wanted to be. I'm not into women but yea it goes without saying that I could have never married a woman.

Again, I'm trying to be understanding, but it's just hard for me to wrap my brain around.

HOWEVER, the from the OP's post I am assuming the OP already knows they are trans before making a decision. If people like yourself had known back when they got married and had kids, you probably would have handled it differently, or at least had more things to think through, right?

Honestly, around here we have threads a lot about late life transition and people are very supportive to the OPs of those threads. But whenever I read those, I just feel very sad for the families who are taken for a ride by it. I don't think it's good for that to be the standard in the trans community.

Quote from: Beverley on February 04, 2012, 02:32:16 PM
Do you have kids? Are you transitioning?

Beverley

I do not have kids and never will, because, physical issues aside, I know I have too many personal things to work out to ever be a parent. I could not give a child all the selfless commitment they would require.  My transition has been on hold until I can leave an unsupportive family environment and move in with my boyfriend.

I have always known I am TS.

Cross dressing did little if anything to help.

I've spent many a day just wishing I was a gay man, thinking that would solve the issue. Alas, gay men do not arouse me.

I have a SO and a desire to have children with her. This desire is completely separate from my gender dysphoria. It is one of the few good things I can imagine doing with my male parts.

I can see why some can't understand... but it is the way my brain works.

From reading your post pretty, it sounds like you can't fathom how anyone could like a woman much less raise a kid with two.  I'm happy that you envision yourself with a man so things fall into the classic male + woman role but that isn't the case for many.  I'm not even going to go into the science of if a father figure is needed in raising a family.  To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed how this sites posts keep getting derailed by side arguments I understand my post was mainly me letting out my feelings emotionally as are several.  However someone will bring up some controversal opinion, state it as fact and for the next 4 pages no one is even talking about the topics poster.

I'm not saying thats going to happen here, but it is certainly heading there and I'm just wondering why you can't take it to private messaging?

To get things back on track, its a big source of depression for me knowing i wont be able to properly mother a child, but hey im not mature enough for that anyway so it might be a good thing for the time being...........

Quote from: Haven on February 04, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
From reading your post pretty, it sounds like you can't fathom how anyone could like a woman much less raise a kid with two.  I'm happy that you envision yourself with a man so things fall into the classic male + woman role but that isn't the case for many.  I'm not even going to go into the science of if a father figure is needed in raising a family.  To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed how this sites posts keep getting derailed by side arguments I understand my post was mainly me letting out my feelings emotionally as are several.  However someone will bring up some controversal opinion, state it as fact and for the next 4 pages no one is even talking about the topics poster.

I'm not saying thats going to happen here, but it is certainly heading there and I'm just wondering why you can't take it to private messaging?

My reply was on topic 

Then I ended up replying that people replied to my reply off-topic... sorry 

I can certainly fathom it, I just think that there are a wealth of examples floating around warning you to be careful about what choices you make. This isn't a question of "can lesbians be successful parents" or something like that. This is a question of priorities: transition or parenting. Because one will most certainly interfere with the other. Don't act all self-righteous, you are talking about a whole new life that is yours to make or break. I wish even just half the population had the foresight to handle that as thoughtfully as they should, especially because things can change down the road in ways you didn't expect or fully consider.

I am confused by your point.

I think transsexuals, in general, tend to make decisions very carefully.

From your perspective, it may be hard to grasp... but as a lesbian, I see where Haven is coming from.

Not your cup of tea? Fine.

I think a lot of the argumentation moves just neatly past each other...

On the one side the female EMOTIONAL/NATURAL need as expressed in lots of TS', to bear a child and the inability to do so. Leading in many of us to a very, very deep sadness - GID.

On the other, the socio-economic-logical-analytical side of this being plain wrong, or much worse, totally, utterly, and completely irresponsible.

In fact most of life is comprised of just these contradictions. It starts when you switch on your lights and start your car! Totally, utterly, and completely irresponsible too BTW. Right?

Now trying to sit pretty, by going into a complete denial about the natural female wish to bear children... oh?

Watch life, and then just think this over once more.
It is neither right, nor is it wrong - it just IS.

It is nature speaking, and all those arguments will have pretty little influence, if any.
What is – IS.
If that was not so – no one in their right head EVER, would even consider to go through the ordeal of transitioning.
Never in your socio-economic-logical-analytical life, EVER.
Think about it.

My 2 cents,
Axélle