Quote from: Shantel on February 08, 2012, 06:44:32 PM
I'm coming into this conversation late! My own perspective on this is that Gender Identity Disorder [GID] and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder [PTSD] are two afflictions that never go away but can be managed with counseling. You need a competent counselor who is versed in GID issues. The second point here is that hormones are actually addictive for those with GID, they will cement the issue and become the point of no return. This isn't just my experience, but is common to other folks I have known for years who would agree.

That is a very good observation that is not often discussed.

For those of us with gender dysphoria, the calming effects of HRT can be as addictive as a narcotic.

this question relates to "how can I stop being gay?"

My answer is, you cannot.

I would suggest seeing a therapist to help you.

Quote from: JessicaH on February 08, 2012, 09:19:26 PM
I think science will prove in our lifetime that this isnt some choice of ours and it IS a birth defect.

That would bring about so many problems that I believe the prejudices against us today would pale in comparison.

If this "birth defect" was true then a doctor in the future could "fix the brain" to make your innerself align to your outer self.

Gays would be "fixed" and lesbians would be "fixed." It would be a scientifically glorified fix camp.

If this is the case, I would never be a woman but a man who was "fixed." I would never be able to express myself as this "fix" probably would have happened in my early childhood.

Right now for nearly all birth defects, the "best" medical science can do is per-natal screening and abortion!

Even when something could be considered a "birth defect" most birth defects will never be fixable, especially genetic defects tend to have such a small window of opportunity to intervene it would require abilities way beyond human possibility.

Also, your chromosomes only contain a program to build your body, however a lot of the actual realisation is left to chance and necessity? Not every thing is encoded into the program, environmental influences tend to make a huge difference to our development. In the end, we ended up the way we are: The whole is more then the sum of its parts, more then the plan, it's also the route taken and the many routes not taken. You can't "fix" someone by replacing them with someone else!

Even the God I believe in can't repair the person I became by undoing whatever went "wrong" early on, because that would killing the "me" I have become, the person I am, it would create a whole new person as different from me as a brother or sister would be; Instead my God knows my soul, my identity, and he loves me for who I am right now, who I have became, and on his day he will not want to errase me, he will want to give me a perfect body that matches who I am. So when I see myself in paradise I see a beautiful garden in front of a beautiful house with a veranda and looking out I see a strong, tall, healthy, happy, young lady enjoying all that God has given her.

Quote from: Happy Girl! on February 08, 2012, 03:47:01 PM
To weaken a belief with a view to eventually getting rid of it completely you must become vigilant, committed and disciplined.  Every time you become aware that you are thinking thoughts related to gender, gender dysphoria, womens' clothes, having breasts etc you must gently drop those thoughts and move to other thoughts.   The word here is 'gently' , you have taken years and years to get to the stage you now are at.   So it will take a number of years to disempower ts/tg thoughts.

So by this same logic people who are gay can apply this same techique and become straight? *rolls eyes*

Hate to inform you be being trans doesn't go away. Either deal with it or try to hide from it. You're choice.

Quote from: JessicaH on February 08, 2012, 09:19:26 PM
I think science will prove in our lifetime that this isnt some choice of ours and it IS a birth defect. There is way more to being male or female than XX or XY or some other variation. 

I agree other than the word "defect". IMHO this is as much a defect as being born with musical talent or being smart at math etc. Plenty of smart kids are bullied and abused because they are different, doesn't make it a defect.

Quote from: Jamie D on February 08, 2012, 09:48:58 PM
That is a very good observation that is not often discussed.

For those of us with gender dysphoria, the calming effects of HRT can be as addictive as a narcotic.

IMHO they don't increase the amplitude of GID at all. I didn't start HRT until I was 51, I tried for 40+ years to ignore this, not think about it, even got married believing that would solve it.  The only thing that has solved it was going full time, HRT just toned DOWN the noise of GID, I really don't think about it much now.

Quote from: Annah on February 08, 2012, 10:02:16 PM
That would bring about so many problems that I believe the prejudices against us today would pale in comparison.

If this "birth defect" was true then a doctor in the future could "fix the brain" to make your innerself align to your outer self.

Gays would be "fixed" and lesbians would be "fixed." It would be a scientifically glorified fix camp.

If this is the case, I would never be a woman but a man who was "fixed." I would never be able to express myself as this "fix" probably would have happened in my early childhood.

The same argument you give here is why it is SOOOOO bad that it is defined as a "mental disorder". The fact that some people can then get free treatment doesn't offset the negative impact this has on ALL trans people.

Quote from: Rabbit on February 08, 2012, 09:36:25 PM
I really hope that isn't true...

First they will try to say it is a "birth defect"...and next comes trying to find "the cure"... and soon any boy with feminine aspects will be sent off to be "fixed" :| Ick...

This is a natural part of human diversity. It has been around for a VERY long time... the only thing that really needs to be fixed is societies denial or stigma towards it.

If there was a real cure i would take it in an instant, im not talking about aversion therapy or anything but if there was a pill that would have made me happy being male I would take it. Im transitioning because i have no other choice. Id rather be happy as either gender than live with the dysphoria burrowing into my chest. Would it make me a different person? Hugely so! But i dont think that would be such a bad thing for some peace of mind, There is no thing that has caused me so much pain and suffering as dysphoria, even when i was close to dying of liver failure as a child the thing that upset me most was that i would never "be a girl". But i was young, i know now its not about being "male" or "female" but about getting to the point I can live my life without this weight on my shoulders. As it stands the only way to do this is transition.

Quote from: Shantel on February 08, 2012, 06:44:32 PM
The second point here is that hormones are actually addictive for those with GID, they will cement the issue and become the point of no return. This isn't just my experience, but is common to other folks I have known for years who would agree.

If I might add something here? (and blame Jamie D  )

The term addiction is somewhat emotive. It tend to be classed along with pleasure and undesirable.
.
I recall a discussion I had while still at school on addiction and someone suggested that flavour is an addiction. It is unnecessary, it adds little to the purpose of food, meaning nutrition, few can live without it, the reaction to its absence is typically irrational. It exists for pleasure and given that, in their efforts to reach the flavour enhancing spices of India, Europeans ended up colonising the entire world, including starting some of the most deadly wars in human history, that isn't much of a recommendation.

Would we seriously choose to go cold turkey on flavour?

The point about hormones and all medicine is, are the benefits greater than the problems. That is the essential measure for any medical procedure.

If hormone treatment is indicated to support someone to live a reasonably useful life then being addictive is only important in ensuring supply.

Quote from: El on February 09, 2012, 01:48:49 AM
If there was a real cure i would take it in an instant, im not talking about aversion therapy or anything but if there was a pill that would have made me happy being male I would take it.

If there was a pill that would make me happy as a male, I couldn't take it. For me, it goes so far beyond how I feel as to who I identify as.

I was uncomfortable living as a male because it wasn't who I was. If I took a pill to cure those uncomfortable feelings then it would destroy who I was in the first place.

I just want to be rid of the hurt.

Quote from: Stephe on February 08, 2012, 11:42:26 PM
I agree other than the word "defect". IMHO this is as much a defect as being born with musical talent or being smart at math etc. Plenty of smart kids are bullied and abused because they are different, doesn't make it a defect.

That's a very good observation.  I don't like the term "defect" either.  Perhaps "variation" or "anomaly" are less charged terms.

"Defect" was obviously the wrong word for me to use as it can be a loaded word with negative canotations. Rather than having a "birth defect" I think science will prove that this is an innate part of who we are, rather than what most people currently think of us. Just like most people can understand a a genetic intersex condition a whole lot better, people would understand transsexualism a whole lot better if there were scientific evidence to explain why we are the way we are.

Some people will never "get it" no matter what evidence is presented but there isn't much we can do about that except legislating rights. As far as "fixing" us, that should be our decision if it can ever be done but I can't imagine that changing our brains will ever be possible, at least in our lifetime.

Quote from: JessicaH on February 09, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
"Defect" was obviously the wrong word for me to use as it can be a loaded word with negative canotations. Rather than having a "birth defect" I think science will prove that this is an innate part of who we are, rather than what most people currently think of us. Just like most people can understand a a genetic intersex condition a whole lot better, people would understand transsexualism a whole lot better if there were scientific evidence to explain why we are the way we are.

Some people will never "get it" no matter what evidence is presented but there isn't much we can do about that except legislating rights. As far as "fixing" us, that should be our decision if it can ever be done but I can't imagine that changing our brains will ever be possible, at least in our lifetime.

I understand why the term "birth defect" is commonly used by and about the transcommunity.  But you are right about the negative connotation.

Quote from: spacial on February 09, 2012, 08:02:01 AM
If I might add something here? (and blame Jamie D  )

I am always willing to accept the blame ...
if I also get the credit!

Quote from: JessicaH on February 09, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
"Defect" was obviously the wrong word for me to use as it can be a loaded word with negative canotations. Rather than having a "birth defect" I think science will prove that this is an innate part of who we are, rather than what most people currently think of us. Just like most people can understand a a genetic intersex condition a whole lot better, people would understand transsexualism a whole lot better if there were scientific evidence to explain why we are the way we are.

Some people will never "get it" no matter what evidence is presented but there isn't much we can do about that except legislating rights. As far as "fixing" us, that should be our decision if it can ever be done but I can't imagine that changing our brains will ever be possible, at least in our lifetime.

Ok. Let's say that the scientific/medical community had pinpointed several medical issues as signs of transsexualism. Let's say that medicine and procedural work had evolved to the point where a series of tests can confirm you are indeed a transsexual.

Let's say you take this test and all test results come back negative. Medically and scientifically, through lab results and other tests, you were not a transsexual. For example, when tests were more accurate/affordable/and more easily attainable to determine if one is intersex, I remember a BOATLOAD of transgirls trying to convince their doctors to let them take the genetic tests. There was one website that even instruct you on what to say your symptoms were to get your doctor to approve the lab work. A VAST MAJORITY of transwomen ended up burnt in the end. The lab results came back time and time again saying they did not exhibit any physiological signs of any form of intersex. Many girls became severely depressed because they were equating their transsexual feelings as intersex feelings. To this day (matter of fact yesterday), I had a trans friend on FB messaged me out of the blue saying she's trying to convince her doctor to let her take the tests needed to determine intersex. I asked her...Are you wanting these tests because you are suffering co morbid conditions of an intersex person and you wanna try to get to the bottom of this or do you want these tests because you want to confirm a sense of legitimacy to your transsexual condition? Or is it because you would rather be called intersex vs trans? She replied...a little bit of answer B and C. When she takes this tests and it comes back negative, she's going to be upset for awhile.

Sometimes we have to be careful what we wish for. Hoping for one thing may backfire and do more harm than good.

I don't think medical advances into explaining transsexualism is not a horrible thing...but I do not think it's a blessing either.

I ve read many expressions of pain and the opposite firm will of fighting this pain, here in this post. I still don't find anyone with whom agreeing.

For me it s different.

I just want to stop of being a definition. I just want to be me.
Transgender, gay, ethero, lesbo and all these possible combinations mixed. Who you think does really care about it?

I think we do too much fuzz about words, just to prevent us from the real pain of being abandoned, misunderstood, refused. But in doing this don't we suffer even more? A constant pain substitutes an episodic one.

I am kind of overwhelmed by the fear of my desperate unhealthy psicho condition, and i see I am nont the only one, so I thank you all, i feel welcome here. Tough i see fear, desire to accept a weaker label, many true femministic considerations, but hey, we are woman or men or gay or lesbo, much before all these considerations.

So basically I am back to the only consideration that matters, just live your day, guy or girl, just enjoy your time, and try to understand what happens around you, and what you want, day by day, not overthink.

I assure you i am all messed up, I was authistic, bipolar depressed, skizo and other definitions like that in a desperate fight and changing evolution, and just as that I assure you that also if the pain of not being who I am and not feeling what I want to feel is much, there's also joy sometimes that repays the biggest efforts.
So just live, try to deal with your emotions with nice hints of a medical assistant, and build your golden path into this sometimes desolate and different world.

Quote from: Annah on February 09, 2012, 03:19:07 PM
Ok. Let's say that the scientific/medical community had pinpointed several medical issues as signs of transsexualism. Let's say that medicine and procedural work had evolved to the point where a series of tests can confirm you are indeed a transsexual.

Let's say you take this test and all test results come back negative. Medically and scientifically, through lab results and other tests, you were not a transsexual. For example, when tests were more accurate/affordable/and more easily attainable to determine if one is intersex, I remember a BOATLOAD of transgirls trying to convince their doctors to let them take the genetic tests. There was one website that even instruct you on what to say your symptoms were to get your doctor to approve the lab work. A VAST MAJORITY of transwomen ended up burnt in the end. The lab results came back time and time again saying they did not exhibit any physiological signs of any form of intersex. Many girls became severely depressed because they were equating their transsexual feelings as intersex feelings. To this day (matter of fact yesterday), I had a trans friend on FB messaged me out of the blue saying she's trying to convince her doctor to let her take the tests needed to determine intersex. I asked her...Are you wanting these tests because you are suffering co morbid conditions of an intersex person and you wanna try to get to the bottom of this or do you want these tests because you want to confirm a sense of legitimacy to your transsexual condition? Or is it because you would rather be called intersex vs trans? She replied...a little bit of answer B and C. When she takes this tests and it comes back negative, she's going to be upset for awhile.

Sometimes we have to be careful what we wish for. Hoping for one thing may backfire and do more harm than good.

I don't think medical advances into explaining transsexualism is not a horrible thing...but I do not think it's a blessing either.

Interesting, Annah.  I wish I had your knowledge base on the subject.  I wonder how far along the medical science really is, especially in the area of (prenatal) brain chemistry.  There are several posters here who are of the right age to have been exposed in the womb to DES.  I am too, but there is no evidence this is a factor for me.  Just the same, I think there may be a whole field of study of prenatal issues regarding future sexuality and gender identification.

Quote from: El on February 09, 2012, 09:10:49 AM
I just want to be rid of the hurt.

Long before there were surgical procedures, hormone therapies, psychological analysis, and the like, there were people like us who had what is today called gender dysphoria or intersex conditions.  They found ways to cope, whether it was through their cultural mores, mythology, religion, cross dressing, etc.

Of course, had we been Spartans, we would have been tossed over the cliff.  How lucky we are to live in this time.