Feb. 15th  I will be 1 year on T and I'm still getting miss-gendered. What is it that makes me look female? This is what I wore and got miss-gendered. I don't understand why I kept getting miss-gendered. Everyone one says I can pass as Dominick. I don't have a problem passing when I tell people I'm Dominick. Why a year on T am I still getting miss-gendered? How much longer will it take before I can completely pass and not get miss-gendered anymore? I know it's different for everybody but being on T for a year and still getting miss-gendered is ridiculous and it is killing me.



Anyone who's been on T for a year or longer still get miss-gendered? This is really upsetting me. What's the point of taking T if I can't pass? I pass more especially with a hat on, but I want to be able to pass without a hat, and I can too sometimes, it just depends on the person. And the person who miss-gendered me was a young girl, probably in her early 20's.

Nothing looks female in the picture that I see.

I work part-time in retail and my co-worker has called a bearded males "ma'am" by COMPLETE accident, I suppose by habit. Of course they always give her an odd look and she didn't even realize it most of the time.

If it's on rare occasions and in public, fast-paced settings it may just be a case like w/my co-worker.

Could it be your body?
You don't look female at all.
I don't get how someone could call you "ma'am".

*edit*
You could always get a different haircut, I think it could be that.
http://hairstyleideas.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/versatille-medium-style-haircut.jpg

Something like that would be nice.

Quote from: JoeyD on February 10, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
Could it be your body?
You don't look female at all.
I don't get how someone could call you "ma'am".

I completely agree. I would NEVER have assumed you were FTM. Maybe it's your body shape. Regardless, you should feel great because you look amazing! Again, I never would have believed you were FTM.

you look 100% male in pictures so it must be something that we are not seeing like your height or the way you carry yourself. There are guys of all heights so maybe you just need social practice being male to counter-act any years of female conditioning that you picked up sub-consciously due to societal pressures.

good news this is something you can practice if that is indeed what it is

Like everybody else has said, in the picture you posted you look great. How is your voice? Body language? How about a profile picture or some other angles? Body shape?

Another suggestion - when somebody perceives you as the wrong gender, why don't you ask them what brought them to that conclusion? This, while uncomfortable, would likely be the fastest way to determine what your 'tells' are.

Quote from: Klv91 on February 10, 2012, 09:56:45 PM
Nothing looks female in the picture that I see.

I work part-time in retail and my co-worker has called a bearded males "ma'am" by COMPLETE accident, I suppose by habit. Of course they always give her an odd look and she didn't even realize it most of the time.

If it's on rare occasions and in public, fast-paced settings it may just be a case like w/my co-worker.

Me and my friend were the only people in line. I was face to face with this girl I believed she looked at me. She thought my friend was talking to himself b/c I'm so short she didn't see me. The girl said to my friend, " I thought you were talking to yourself, I didn't see her their with you." I was almost gonna correct her, but again I chickened out cause  I'm thinking there was something there that she saw that made her think female, and again, I'm thinking it's my height. I was dress and presenting as male. I don't get it? Don't people look for these clues to judge weather your male or female? I'm hoping it's just my height that is hindering my passing. But still, can't people tell the difference between a male and a female?

Quote from: JoeyD on February 10, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
Could it be your body?
You don't look female at all.
I don't get how someone could call you "ma'am".

*edit*
You could always get a different haircut, I think it could be that.
http://hairstyleideas.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/versatille-medium-style-haircut.jpg

Something like that would be nice.

Thanks. I don't get it either.  My jacket hides my body. I was thinking a different haircut, but sometimes if you go too short it could bring out feminine features, ya know what I mean? That cut's not bad, I've had something similar to that. My hair kinda grows fast.

@Nick: Thanks!

@spacerace: Thanks. My cousins and everyone has told me I have no female mannerisms to me, and a lady I recently told, told me I don't even walk like a girl. So I'm kinda stumped.

@Danielle: Thanks. I thought about asking but I felt weird. I really wanna know what it is because it really brings me down and upsets me.  People say my voice passes. I'll upload a clip of my voice, and my jacket covers my body shape.

How often are you getting misgendered vs you getting correctly gendered.  Keep in mind, she might have just accidentally misgendered you, saw you as male but "ma'am" or "miss" slipped out. I'm guilty of it myself, all the people I work with are women, all the people I go to school are women, maybe the last 10 customers were women so it slips out, and I call a man "ma'am". 

In the long run, it's nothing to get too down about.  If those who are important to you view you as male, that is what should matter.  You will probably never see that checkout girl again, or next time she may call you "sir", today was probably just an accidental slip of the tongue.

You look completely male, but understand, you are only one year on T.  That is a drop in the bucket of puberty.  Puberty takes years, and even after "puberty" you will still go through bodily changes up until you are an old man and die.  It's hard, I know it is, I'm 15 months on T and still get misgendered sometimes.  Just don't let it eat you up inside.

Quote from: Andy8715 on February 10, 2012, 11:35:42 PM
How often are you getting misgendered vs you getting correctly gendered.  Keep in mind, she might have just accidentally misgendered you, saw you as male but "ma'am" or "miss" slipped out. I'm guilty of it myself, all the people I work with are women, all the people I go to school are women, maybe the last 10 customers were women so it slips out, and I call a man "ma'am". 

In the long run, it's nothing to get too down about.  If those who are important to you view you as male, that is what should matter.  You will probably never see that checkout girl again, or next time she may call you "sir", today was probably just an accidental slip of the tongue.

You look completely male, but understand, you are only one year on T.  That is a drop in the bucket of puberty.  Puberty takes years, and even after "puberty" you will still go through bodily changes up until you are an old man and die.  It's hard, I know it is, I'm 15 months on T and still get misgendered sometimes.  Just don't let it eat you up inside.

Thanks Andy.

It depends. I've passed every time I wore a hat. Without the hat it's hard to say since no pronouns are used at all.


The people close to me don't see me as male. Only my cousins will use male pronouns. I know everyone who knows me still see's me as female but a few of my cousins are the only people that make the effort to use the right name and pronouns. My friends don't use pronouns at all or call me by any name. I think it's still weird for them or uncomfortable.  Some family members I can never see them calling me Dominick. Which is fine as long as they don't call me out in Public. Which does happen and it is very embarrassing.

I hope it was an accidental slip of the tongue but she didn't correct herself when she came over to me and my friend.

I'm sorry you get miss-gendered sometimes too, it totally sucks when that happens especially being that long on T.

You look all-male to me.

Yeah, your face looks great.  Maybe it could be your body or mannerisms.  It might be helpful to post a video or more pictures.

Even before you got on T you looked male. I wouldn't let the isolated incidents get you down. You could also not chicken out and correct someone who said ma'am.

I get ma'am when I'm out a lot - even when I'm in full on "guy mode". I chalked it up to being short as well, but there are plenty of short dudes out there too.

I pass less with a hat on. Or I look like a fundraising pic for childhood cancer or something. I've only been on T a couple months though. I am starting to get a little bigger and less pale.

I know this is serious, but your spelling it "miss-gendered" kinda made me giggle. Was that on purpose? Anyway you look more like a dude than I do at first glance, and I pass most of the time.

Was the girl by any chance a little odd in any other aspects of her language? I've heard both ESL people and autistics misgender just about anybody as a matter of course.

My first thought on seeing your pic was, "You look a lot like Justin Bieber."

With that in mind, I'd like to share an "fyi" with you...several of my friends/former acquaintances have said that Justin "looks like a girl."

Haircut? Maybe.

Slight facial-and-neck "build"? Maybe.

Maybe the "young 20-something" girl hadn't learned her manners yet, like when a little child says, "Hey Mom! That lady's really FAT!" As we get older, we start to learn how to "play the game", ie, if a person is fat, you don't mention it...if they're missing a limb, you don't mention it...if they look female (or male), but they are presenting themselves as opposite, you don't mention it.

Height could be the deciding factor, but height alone probably doesn't account for it. Your face looks completely male to me, but I can't see you move or hear your voice. It's a package deal. What if you got your hair cut shorter? It will grow back, and you might find that the longer hair is read as a girl's haircut even if the features aren't girly.

My buddy is short, too, and he still gets misgendered after a couple of years on T. I'm so used to seeing him as a guy that I couldn't understand why others didn't always read him that way, but I've been thinking about it lately. I think it's because he has a combination of factors, not all of them physical. Working against him are height, some typically feminine hand gestures, and typically feminine inflections and vocal patterns. His voice is male but the way he talks is fairly "female." He also hasn't had top surgery, and that must have an effect on how he carries himself. It did for me.

But I think that for him, one deciding factor is confidence. He isn't assertive enough to correct people, and he deflates some when they misread him. This means that he isn't projecting a lot of security in his maleness. Confidence goes a long way for a lot of trans folks. It has taken me a long time to acquire enough of that of-course-I'm-a-guy solidity, almost a casualness about my body and how it is read. If you're tentative, that looks like femaleness. Way back when, my therapist told me that instead of thinking, "I'm not a girl," I should think, "I'm a boy." I don't know if it helped, but I guess it didn't hurt. I've mostly internalized it now, until I have a moment of self-consciousness. When that happens, I try to relax and recapture the confidence. It doesn't take long, but it used to.

I found that politely or humorously correcting people felt good. So if you're not comfortable correcting people in a serious way, turn it into a joke and question the other person's perceptions with humor. It worked for me. The person is still apologetic, and you don't have to be as assertive to make a wisecrack. You can also relieve some of your own tension this way. And let me tell you one more thing. You say that you didn't correct her because you thought she was seeing something female that made her misgender you? Well, most people have a few characteristics across the spectrum. But a woman with a strong nose and chin is still a woman, and a quiet and polite man is still a man. You'll have greater success when you can just be who you ARE and stop thinking about what might "give you away." I think that some people's obsessing over what gives them away...well, gives them away.

As I said, I do still think about those little clues, but the longer I live as a man, the less I do it. Changing your attitude is a process. Maybe you're just not quite "there" yet. Or maybe this gal just wasn't paying attention.

QuoteI found that politely or humorously correcting people felt good. So if you're not comfortable correcting people in a serious way, turn it into a joke and question the other person's perceptions with humor. It worked for me. The person is still apologetic, and you don't have to be as assertive to make a wisecrack. You can also relieve some of your own tension this way. And let me tell you one more thing. You say that you didn't correct her because you thought she was seeing something female that made her misgender you? Well, most people have a few characteristics across the spectrum. But a woman with a strong nose and chin is still a woman, and a quiet and polite man is still a man. You'll have greater success when you can just be who you ARE and stop thinking about what might "give you away." I think that some people's obsessing over what gives them away...well, gives them away.

This is great thinking. I have a cismale friend who is a bit gender atypical, though he doesn't seem to realize it. Because he's cis, he doesn't think much about it when he gets misgendered or when someone points out something about him that isn't particularly masculine. He corrects the person or shrugs it off.

I could echo the others all day, but try a different haircut, Dominick.  I have heard IRL young cisguys getting ma'amed with hair similar to yours.  Also with the Emo (not saying that's your look) and similar style, it's sometimes difficult for me to know a person's gender at first glance - i.e. both genders wearing skinny jeans, similar hair, hoodies, etc.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 11, 2012, 02:19:36 AM
I could echo the others all day, but try a different haircut, Dominick.  I have heard IRL young cisguys getting ma'amed with hair similar to yours.  Also with the Emo (not saying that's your look) and similar style, it's sometimes difficult for me to know a person's gender at first glance - i.e. both genders wearing skinny jeans, similar hair, hoodies, etc.

Those kids need to get off your lawn.

Quote from: Arch on February 11, 2012, 01:41:08 AM
But I think that for him, one deciding factor is confidence. He isn't assertive enough to correct people, and he deflates some when they misread him. This means that he isn't projecting a lot of security in his maleness. Confidence goes a long way for a lot of trans folks. It has taken me a long time to acquire enough of that of-course-I'm-a-guy solidity, almost a casualness about my body and how it is read. If you're tentative, that looks like femaleness. Way back when, my therapist told me that instead of thinking, "I'm not a girl," I should think, "I'm a boy." I don't know if it helped, but I guess it didn't hurt. I've mostly internalized it now, until I have a moment of self-consciousness. When that happens, I try to relax and recapture the confidence. It doesn't take long, but it used to.

I'm just going to quote Arch here because he's awesome.  Really Dominick you need to look people in the eye and make them believe you are a guy.  This sulking in the background looking at your feet isn't going to cut it.  You need to correct people.  It needs to happen because its the best booster there is.  I've said this to you at least 6 times. 

The T can't transform the inner you, the part that desperately needs a huge dose of self confidence.  Stop expecting it too.  It's all you man, ultimately, in the end.  Take on the world like you are the Hulk and get people to give you what you want.

@Malachite: Thanks.

@Lee:Thanks. I don't think it's my body or mannerisms. My jacket covers my body and I've been told I told have any mannerisms to me that are feminine. Maybe I'll post a video or something, but I can't get my video camera to record for some reason.

@insideontheoutside: Thanks. Yeah, I always mean to correct people when that happens, but I open my mouth and nothing comes out. I think I get more nervous when other guys are around.

I get ma'am when I'm out a lot - even when I'm in full on "guy mode".

Doesn't that suck when that happens? I don't get how people can't see the male signs.

@Felix: "I know this is serious, but your spelling it "miss-gendered" kinda made me giggle. Was that on purpose?" lol. That was by accident. I wasn't sure how to spell mis-gendered.  Spelling it with one "S" a red line came up underneath it so I figured the spelling was incorrect, so when I spelled it with two "S" no line came up, lol. 

Was the girl by any chance a little odd in any other aspects of her language?

Nope.

I pass less with a hat on.

Huh? I wonder why? My cousins say most people associate hats with guys so that's why wear hats more often now and it helps me pass better.

@Beth Andrea: Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say Justin Bieber looks like a girl. I don't actually. I can tell he's a boy and I wouldn't mis-gender him thinking he was a girl. The way he's dress tells you that he's male.

Haircut? Maybe. Slight facial-and-neck "build"? Maybe.

These are possibilities.


Maybe the "young 20-something" girl hadn't learned her manners yet

Maybe.

@Arch: What if you got your hair cut shorter?

I don't like the real short haircuts. I don't go too much shorter that what my hair looks like in the picture. I'm okay going a litter shorter in the back, maybe even shaved a little in the back, but general I like to keep my hair longer.  I never liked the short look. I think longer hair looks better, but that's just my opinion.  Maybe if I loose a ton of weight I might get it cut a little bit shorter, but as of right now, going too short wouldn't look good on my face. I think it might make my face look fatter.

My buddy is short, too, and he still gets misgendered after a couple of years on T

That sucks. I've been told I don't have a feminine mannerism to me, so I don't know. But but guys who are gay and have a feminine mannerism to them get called guys, so I'm not sure.

I haven't had top surgery yet so like you said that could be a factor. But I do pass as Dominick when I introduce myself to people like a job interview or something. I say I'm Dominick and they don't think twice about it. I Guess b/c I'm telling them and then that way they are sure I'm male if they can't tell.

I think I have confidence. I don't go out in public thinking I'm not gonna pass b/c I thought I was passing but that experience has brought my confidence down again and worrying weather I pass or not now.

Before I came out to this lady she told me I looked like a little boy. I was happy she said that, but again I had a hat on and I look way too young but, still, she said boy even if I look young at least I passed.

Some people get it right and others don't. Why does it always depend on the person? Why doesn't everyone pick up the same cues?

I found that politely or humorously correcting people felt good.

That's a good idea.

Thanks Arch for your advice.

@Kreuzfidel: Yeah, maybe a different haircut would work. I actually just got my haircut about 2 months ago and grows kinda fast. I can try going a little shorter in the back. Or just get my haircut more often since it grows fast.

@Squirrel698: I know. I came so close to saying something, like my mouth opened but nothing came out and I think she saw something female I better not say anything.  I was hoping my friend would say something but he didn't. He was waiting for me to correct her. I was just thinking having a friend there it would be easier b/c they can correct the person. And as once person said here once it's sometimes easier if you have a friend who will correct the person for you.  But maybe it's better coming from me instead.