BIG LONG POST:

I haven't been on this forum in over a year, and haven't been properly active on it for a bit longer than that. But something happened recently that made me need to do a little introspection and try and work through some of my reasoning. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would post this here at all. I'm generally a big fan of figuring stuff out in private, alone. But there comes a point where things are going round and round in your head and the same thoughts have been occurring to you for so long that you realise you need some outside input or nothing's going to change. So while I AM ranting mostly for myself here, any opinions and questions would be great. (:

OK, so the trigger was at my Uni's LGBTQ+ group, deciding who would go to this conference thing. It sounded really interesting, with lots of useful workshops and debates, and people from all over the country would be attending. I'd even helped to write one of the motions that would be debated, one that I feel passionately about. There were 5 places available to go, one reserved specifically for self-identifying trans people. There was pretty much no chance that I'd get to go being in my last year, seeing as the Chairman had made it clear she wanted priority to be given to people who could use it for the longest time in the Uni. All the places were voted in and filled, except for the trans place. The only trans person at the meeting (the chairman, who also identifies as non-binary) couldn't make the date, and the chairman looked round the room and asked "Now, are there any trans people here that want to stand for the place?"

I didn't say anything. The place was dropped, because there was no-one to fill it. And I'm still examining my reasons as to why I didn't say anything.

Yes, I do identify as trans. If there's anything I know for sure here, it's that simple fact. Something in me still vehemently rejects any attempt to properly gender myself and identifying as my birth sex still feels really wrong. It's been nearly 3 years since I first figured myself out, since I first found out about androgynes and something in me just clicked. It was a huge weight off my shoulders.

I accept the realities of being this way but looking totally cisgender. People are still going to treat me as a girl however I dress, I know they don't realise and I have no right to get annoyed at them for not knowing. I don't want to cut my hair off just because it's sort of what you're supposed to do to look androgynous. I don't want to compare myself to other people and try and force my body to look a certain way it's just not going to. I've been down that path, and trying to 'prove myself' was one of the worst experiences of my life.

There are some days when it gets to me more than others. When I just need to dig out my binder, crossdress more than usual and somehow after doing that, I just breathe easier, I can cope better with the world. Even if I'm just doing that in my room for an hour or two, that's fine, that's enough.

I need to bite my tongue when I feel like correcting people sometimes, which I hate doing. It's not that I haven't told people before, or that I haven't told anyone recently. I have, and it's not too much of an issue with them when I do. I told my mum, but she just plain didn't believe me, ditto about being asexual though, so. It's easier to not have the whole intense conversation with people sometimes. However, that wouldn't have been too much of an issue at the meeting either, as the chairman identifies as non-binary, so the people there generally know what it is.

I have always ensured that this decision of mine to not tell people doesn't impact my freedom of speech too much. On social networking and other sites I'll either not pick a gender or pick 'other' and that's a public thing, I'll always make it clear to people that I don't want to be lumped into the gender categories, and as you can see I've got my actual picture on here and if anyone found it I wouldn't care. I will often outright say to people "I don't really think of myself as female", but then leave it at that, unwilling to give them terms for it or specify too much about it. I crossdress pretty much all the time regardless, binding as well if I need to. No-one comments on it at all.

By the way, just going to state for the record that I despise the idea that some people are 'not trans enough' to identify as trans. If this was someone else telling me this, I'd tell them to stop being so silly and just trust the courage of their convictions. But that's sort of how I'm feeling about it as well. I feel that there are people out there who are struggling with so much more than I am (not only am I mostly not telling people anything about it, but I don't have the medical stuff to deal with) who would deserve the place, whereas I wouldn't. But that's not quite it either, as if the other transperson went, I would have no qualms about that. She may be out (and look the part with the ubiquitous short hair and all that) but she's not doing anything medically either... I don't know.

I don't really know the people in the society too well, though, we only get together for these weekly meetings and I've seen one or two of them out a couple of times within a larger group. Maybe I was just intimidated by the prospect of explaining to people I've known a year now about my gender status, which is quite relevant to the work we do anyway and for which I don't really have much excuse for not having told them about? I did tell someone who used to come to our meetings, but I knew her beforehand anyway, so I didn't count her as one of them.

My usual excuse to myself is that my gender's a private thing, that telling people is tantamount to discussing in slightly-too-intimate detail how I feel about my genitalia. I'm scared they'll pity me. I'm scared that's all they'll think about when they look at me. I'm scared they won't believe me, because I'm not sure I'm going to have anything physically done. This is all normal. But identifying that way, knowing I'm not the only one helped me enormously, gave me a point of reference for dealing with the world. I'm immensely grateful for that, but part of my aversion to telling people is being scared that telling people will push me again into feeling I need to 'prove it'.

At least if I keep it to myself I can control it. The moment I book an appointment with a therapist this is out of my hands, I'm scared of it rushing off without me, I'm scared that by admitting I'm not sure about what I want done I'll sabotage my chances of having anything done about it forever. I've heard from some of you other androgynes how you had to lie to get the treatments you wanted from your therapists, and so I'm a bit scared of going if I'm still completely unsure. What if I go, and tell them how I really feel, and later I decide I want top surgery (which is the only thing I keep coming back to that would make me feel a lot better; unfortunately my chest is several sizes into qualifying for a reduction on the NHS and if I went there I'd just go the whole way), and they tell me I can't because I'm just confused or something?

But now I'm wondering if all this really is just an excuse. What if there's some part of me that's still refusing to accept this, what if I'm just letting my fears control my life? I know I've still got a long way to go. My own reactions when I tell people range from totally calm and matter-of-fact to an outright attack of the shakes. Whenever I am about to tell someone I've never told before, I can feel the shakes coming on, and I don't really want that obvious physical effect to happen in front of a group, it's humiliating. But the fact that the shakes happen at all is surely a symptom of how uncomfortable I still am about this?

I can come out as asexual, easy, even to people who outright tell me I just need such-and-such doing to me and then I'd 'understand'. Water off a duck's back, fine. It's just my sexual orientation, after all. But this... this is something far too close to me, every insult, even every offhand comment about this issue hits me so hard compared to anything else. But on the other hand, I'm 20, it's about time I grew up and learnt how to deal with it, right?

And I know full well why I just mentioned my age. It was so that people would reassure me and tell me that I'm still young, that I still have time. But so much time has gone by already. Aargh, I dunno. I know, I know, it's a long path to acceptance, but I'm wondering if I'll ever get there, or if I do it'll end up being so late that I'll look back and regret a life wasted with this worry, this self-censoring, this feeling not-quite-right.

Still glad to have me back, guys? /end BIG LONG POST.


So, for you tl;dr lot, I didn't tell my LGBTQ+ group that I was trans (and thus missed out on a really cool thing) because of:

1. Not looking the part/not out.
2. Feel it is 'private'.
3. Need for control.
4. Fundamentally uncomfortable with being trans? (Problematic.)

That breakdown is weird. Thanks for listening. (:

I don't think I've seen you around here before, so hi.

My advice, for whatever it's worth, is don't beat yourself up over it.  I am still learning that myself; I'm not at all brave about outing myself despite already sort of being out.  I'm not obvious either.

As far as "not trans enough" goes, I am starting to think people like me -- nonbinary, nondysphoric, nontransitioning, using birth-sex pronouns and mostly birth-sex presentation -- fit better in the "Q" of LGBTQ.  Or perhaps "U" for unicorn.  (Or "O" for octopus, which is what a friend says my gender is.  Octopus Forest?)

Hello Foosnark, nice to meetcha. And to be honest I'm pretty darn impressed you read that stonewall of text! XD
Thanks. (:
The Octopus Forest sounds like a scary place. Lots of large-brained tentacled monsters in the trees... (or maybe the anime stereotype is affecting my judgement of such a concept. )

Hi Fenrir!
     Welcome to the family, I read the entire stonewall rant and I get you kid! There is nothing different about your inner thoughts and fears than what we all experience at times. Eventually you will have to end up trusting a counselor of your choice, someone that you feel really comfortable with that you can confide in on a one-on-one basis. It will help you immensely, it has been good for me! I'm MtF but have never fully transitioned and relate more as androgynous and am quite comfortable with it. Take a deep breath when you're getting stressed out, find something to do other than whatever it was that set you off. It works as if you are simply changing the tape in your head. ((hugs))

Hi Fenrir - i remember you!

The main thing that struck me from what you said is a concern about having to justify yourself to someone at some point in time. You NEVER have to do that, to ANYBODY, EVER. You know what you feel and if that is good enough for you then it's good enough for everyone else. Don't let anyone tell you who you are, or what you should think. Only you own that right. You have the right to exist the way you want to, and no one can take that away from you unless you let them.

Second, seeing a therapist doesn't necessarily mean that "it's out of your hands". A therapist is there to help you sort your feelings and make sense of them. The therapist can't make you do something that you really don't want to do. If you get a therapist that's not helping you - find another therapist.

Third - the "not trans enough" thing. Yes, it certainly happens among the TG community that androgynes get marginalized or ignored. I've learned that lesson firsthand. There are many binary-types in the TG community and we just don't make sense to them or we're pretending or something. It really doesn't matter because letting it matter is letting other people shape who you are, and we're just not accepting that. We're called unicorns for a reason

"Those that matter won't mind, and those that mind won't matter."

Riven

Quote from: Fenrir on February 15, 2012, 08:33:39 PM
SNIP

I'm scared they'll pity me. I'm scared that's all they'll think about when they look at me. I'm scared they won't believe me, because I'm not sure I'm going to have anything physically done. ...... but part of my aversion to telling people is being scared that telling people will push me again into feeling I need to 'prove it'......The moment I book an appointment with a therapist this is out of my hands, I'm scared of it rushing off without me, I'm scared that by admitting I'm not sure about what I want done I'll sabotage my chances of having anything done about it forever. I've heard from some of you other androgynes how you had to lie to get the treatments you wanted from your therapists, and so I'm a bit scared of going if I'm still completely unsure..........

But now I'm wondering if all this really is just an excuse. What if there's some part of me that's still refusing to accept this, what if I'm just letting my fears control my life?

So, for you tl;dr lot, I didn't tell my LGBTQ+ group that I was trans (and thus missed out on a really cool thing) because of:

1. Not looking the part/not out.
2. Feel it is 'private'.
3. Need for control.
4. Fundamentally uncomfortable with being trans? (Problematic.)

That breakdown is weird. Thanks for listening. (:

Look at how many times you say scared. I would add a fifth reason to your list above, but really it is probably the main thing you need to work on: You are letting your fears control your life.

Fear is a VERY powerful motivator, but fear is literally just a belief. Some fear is justified and helpful to avoid dangerous situations; it's self preservation. This kind of fear is just the story in your own mind, that you keep telling yourself over and over and over. It gets amplified and distorted, and in my experience, the 'fear' story in situations like this is ALWAYS wrong. Change your underlying beliefs about the story, or just stop telling yourself that story, and your fear and the pain you cause yourself by listening to it, evaporates, literally. Byron Katie has a fantastic approach to getting at those underlying beliefs and dispelling those fears in her book "Loving What Is". She also has a website, but the book is a good read. She has walked the talk and used her own methods to deal with a boatload of problems life has thrown at her and her family, but the book mostly uses examples of other people and their issues that she has helped get to a fear-free state.

Hope this helps.

Quote from: Fenrir on February 15, 2012, 08:33:39 PM
That breakdown is weird. Thanks for listening. (:

I'm happy your back and ranting about life again. You always make great points that make others think.
I know you'll work it out, it seems to me you usually do...

Ativan

Geese...went through a period today of this agony of 'Why am I not Fully Out?'.

The contortions in my mind about it become so unbearable sometimes.
But my world, my real life, isn't in a place where it would be appropriate.
Unfortunately, I live in the district that voted in Michelle Bachmann.
Even though she has become a political joke, the republican caucus voted unanimously for Santorum.

It's a very strange place to be, the liberal people embrace everyone, then there are these fanatical right wingers.
There doesn't seem to be to many people in between.

I do believe that there are now far more people who are for total equal rights.
The local communities seem to be more accepting lately.

Was in a notorious redneck bar with a friend. A couple guys noticed my womans boots.
They complemented me on how great they looked.
(I think they liked the drunken wiggle in my walk to the restroom, hah!)

My world, it's getting better. Why am I not fully out? I think the day is coming soon.

Ativan

Fenrir,

I've been wrestling with this kinda stuff lately too.

I totally relate to feeling like telling people (family, friends, counselors, etc.) puts this pressure on you to "prove" how you feel. I chose to be very up-front with my family about being questioning, and my feelings were largely dismissed as rash/melodramatic/invalid because I didn't necessarily have an answer to all their questions - that's what "questioning" means, after all.

At this point, I'm coming to terms with the fact that I don't really fit in a binary "check one" box, and that can be frustrating. What I have to remind myself to keep in mind is that, as riven1 pointed out, we don't need to "prove" ourselves to anyone. We just are, and that's all the proof we need. If you feel like it's a private matter, that's perfectly fine - it can easily be something you don't have to tell anyone. Just don't let your fear of needing to "justify yourself" keep you from sharing.

[Just reread that, and I guess it doesn't help overly much for me to say "You're scared? Well then don't be scared, that's your solution." Just my particular brand of non-eloquence, I suppose. ]

My mother, bless her confused little heart, does have a pretty good mantra which goes something like, "anything you do out of fear, anger, guilt, or shame is usually a regret waiting to happen."

It's not about how other people deal with it - that's their problem. It's about how we act to make ourselves feel more comfortable with ourselves. If sometimes you feel (like I do) like you need to "crossdress more than usual" to feel more comfortable, then go for it. Just throwing on a binder, shirt and tie for a fancy dinner out with friends can definitely make my day when I'm having a rough one. That's a power we have - that's CONTROL we have over our lives.

I entered these forums with the same doubt as you - the "not trans enough" doubt. There will always be a contingent of folks married to the binary, but for the most part, I'm working towards being okay with being "monkey in the middle." I'm college-age, and found comfort in my LGBTQ group; although, like you, I'm not really open with myself at the general meetings.

I can't speak to what it's like to get letters or surgery (I haven't even done gender-specific counseling). But I know what it feels like to feel compelled to "get a move on" on physical changes. Sometimes I feel like, in a dynamic social environment where everybody is trying to reinvent themselves to some degree, it makes sense to get any "transitioning" out of the way now. But I'm still trying to make myself take things slow. One of the greatest things about this site is getting to see people who, even when they started their journey later in life, had successful transitions and lives. For me, since it isn't a simple question of picking one side or the other, I'm adding changes to my life as I need them to feel comfortable, and then giving myself time to adjust. Maybe at some point that will lead to top surgery. Maybe it won't. In the meantime I'm going to take the steps in between there and where I am as slow as I can stand - it's the only way to figure out, eventually, whereabouts in the gradient I fall.

This was long and ranty in itself. Hope somewhere in there you find something useful. From what I can tell, I am where you are, and I'm just beginning to work through it myself.

~possiblycharlie

Fenrir,

I've been to LGBT conference and you missed a great experience.
No way would you have had any hassle as you would have been accepted as yourself and not have to justify yourself and you would probly have connected with lots of people.
Social events would have been nice for you too.

Did I enjoy conference?  Not really.  I hold to gender binary and I saw some direct transphobia from lesbians and also a CD sat ram rod straight like a sergeant major under a ridiculous black wig sneered at my full female presentation.  A wig doth not maketh a woman.

Nice chat with folk from all over the country.

I won't be going again as LGBT only includes TS to give them legitimacy - not because they have anything in common with TS.

Quote from: lilacwoman on February 22, 2012, 02:43:35 PM

Did I enjoy conference?  Not really.  I hold to gender binary and I saw some direct transphobia from lesbians and also a CD sat ram rod straight like a sergeant major under a ridiculous black wig sneered at my full female presentation.  A wig doth not maketh a woman.
I won't be going again as LGBT only includes TS to give them legitimacy - not because they have anything in common with TS.

Too bad the lesbian's acted so immature, they always get their jaws out of joint, then piss and moan about how rudely they often get treated by others. What goes around....huh? Concerning the wig chickster wannabe, you it can take solace in knowing that you've secretly intimidated a clueless dork! You understand that's what the looks were about don't you?