Hey all, I've been lurking here for years but didn't get the nerve to set up an account until recently.  I've seen lots of these threads and I'm fairly certain that I know what the chorus of responses will be ("See a gender therapist in your area"), but I feel like I need to get this off my chest.

I'm not sure where I fit into the whole transgender space.  As far as I can remember I have always been sexually aroused by the idea of being a woman.   I know it's a very loaded word around here but for lack of a better description, I'm autogynephilic.  The earliest I can remember is when I was 8 years old, getting erections while thinking about being a girl though I didn't know it was a sexual response at the time, it was just something my body did that was uncomfortable.  Around this time I also remember having dreams where I was a girl and waking up having wet the bed (though, in retrospect it might've been a wet dream).

As I got older I became aware of the sexual component of things  which caused (and causes) me a great amount of unease.  I don't really ever remember feeling as though I should've been born a girl or feeling a strong identity as a girl or even particularly feminine, I just know that I've never entirely identified as a male.  On the one hand all but one of my closest friends are female--I've actually had a friend comment that I'm 'part woman'--but on the other hand I still consider myself 'a guy' for the most part.

I know that the common wisdom is that sexuality and gender are separate but for me they're all mixed together.  I'm not sure if I want to be a woman because of gender identity or if it's my sexuality that makes me desire to want to be a woman because I'm aroused by it.  I find myself looking at a girl I'm attracted to and thinking about what it would be like to have a body like hers and I don't know if that's envy because of being in the wrong body or if it's sexual.

At the same time I feel a bit under the gun.  I'm only 21 and I experienced puberty late so I feel a bit under pressure to make a decision over whether or not to explore transition soon just because of how the effects of hormones decrease with age very quickly after puberty.  Sorry if I've rambled or if things don't make sense.  I also have severe social anxieties which often prevent me from seeking help or talking to people—the only reason I'm posting here is because of the strong urgings of several friends.  I've been quite deeply depressed for the past several years and I've pretty much given up on life.  Though it's not specifically because of my sexuality and gender identity, being very unsure of something so basic that most people take for granted is very stressful.  I don't want to commit to therapy or transition if I'll come out the other side as depressed and suicidal as before.

Don't know really what I want people to say, I'm just very confused and scared.  Anyone else been in the same situation?

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Hey all, I've been lurking here for years but didn't get the nerve to set up an account until recently.  I've seen lots of these threads and I'm fairly certain that I know what the chorus of responses will be ("See a gender therapist in your area"), but I feel like I need to get this off my chest.

That is said quite a lot and good advice it is too.

You won't hear it from me or a lot of others. You go and see the 'gate keepers' when you're ready.

If I may, in the mean time, the best way by far to find out about yourself, is to contribute to the discussions here. Susans' is especially good because it's well moderated.

Your fear of confusing sexuality with transgender is fine.

Transgender is essentially about expression, not sexuality. Some are gay after transision, while others are straight. Many of us have elected to be celebate.

But if people can use Baked Beans for sex then they can surely use gender expression.

You're here now. So looking forward to reading your posts.

I *think* I was in the same boat as you - slightly curious, a bit clueless, partially afraid, even a bit ashamed of my feelings but I went to a gender therapist and after a few meetings, came to the realization that I wanted to transistion. To me aswell, I've always thought of gender and sexuality as undefineable; a mixture like you said of this and that.

But what spacial mentioned previously is good advice - theres no need to rush into anything yet, explore your feelings, who you are and who you want to be from the safe anonymous privacy of the internet*

But even talking to some of the people on here can help. Theres a whole range of different people on here. A lot of them have been through the hard part and can advise you, whereas some are mid-transistion and are exploring new depths of emotions and awareness of their own AND then there a lot of us who are still trying to figure out who we are and how to define ourselves! Theres a whole mini-demogaphic of everyone and anyone on here so feel free to get involved, chat with a few people, offer your thoughts, opinions and advice and hopefully have a good time

*That sounded unintentionally creepy lol!

Hey..... Go see a gender therapist in your area!     

Seriously...... that is good advice - the best.

The aspects of your story you have posted sound much like mine and will be familiar to most people on here.
You may well be transsexual but it is impossible for me or anyone else here to judge definitively.
As you already know, the sooner you get a clear idea and if necessary get started, the better so do go and talk to a specialist.

I'm glad that you got up the nerve to join and post.
Those very first steps are the hardest.
Good luck and keep in touch,

Stephanie  x

I was 23 first time I posted here, so well done 

Sigh, yeah, not exactly what I was hoping for (though to be honest, what I was hoping for was for someone to tell me the answer and what to do--unrealistic, I know).  I do very much appreciate the replies though.  How would I go about finding a gender specialist?  Apologies, I fully admit that I'm just some kid who doesn't know how to do anything and being paralyzed with anxiety whenever I go someplace new doesn't help.

I just don't know what I want or who I am which is part of why being told 'only you know what's right for you' is frustrating.  Very worried about making the wrong decision and I feel like my sexuality gets in the way of looking at things objectively.  I'm sure many have experienced that the urge to be a woman is very strong while masturbating but afterwards you feel a huge amount of shame and self-loathing.  I'm worried that simply the fact that I'm aroused by even thinking of transitioning clouds my judgement by making me think that I want something which I don't.  Testosterone is a pain. <_<

Listen ...... that cycle re masturbation is familiar to a LOT of us - more of us than will admit to it.
Like I said..... your story chimes with me.
That is a very familiar cycle - Deny, Express, Guilt, Purge (  = throw your femme clothes away...... but pretty soon you buy some more...... though you may be using your Mum's or sister's stuff at present)

We can't simply give you "Your" answer.
It took me 53 years to sort my own ->-bleeped-<- out!!!   

You've Lurked and read on here for ages .... obviously some of what you've read seems to fit you.
You can post and chat to us and we'll help all we can. The purpose of talking to a specialist in gender is to help you plumb your feelings and reach that decision - in the end, only you can know.

Those of us who made transition - eventually - many of us were still carrying some amount of doubt.   Transition IS a "leap of faith"

Here...... read THIS that I wrote elsewhere  and you'll realise that not all of us have a constant, cut-and-dried certainty   

Quote from: Steffi on February 17, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Listen ...... that cycle re masturbation is familiar to a LOT of us - more of us than will admit to it.
Like I said..... your story chimes with me.
That is a very familiar cycle - Deny, Express, Guilt, Purge (  = throw your femme clothes away...... but pretty soon you buy some more.

Steffi is so right on! Everyone masturbates, both male and females alike and everyone in between, it's completely normal! Historically some have done all they can to make other human beings feel guilty for all kinds of normal human behavior, using guilt as a bludgeon to manipulate others and make them compliant replications, clones of their own stiff, unbending and miserably unhappy lives. Our Creator made each of us unique and free to experience all that life has to offer. Purging the closet of femme clothes and self denial is all part of the cycle of guilt, which is contrary to becoming free to be. We've all dealt with that, don't take on any guilt, it's counter productive to your destiny regardless of what that may ultimately be.

Yeah, it's not that I felt shame because of it, just that it confuses the issue because the times when I feel the most dysphoric are also the times when I feel the most aroused.  Don't get me wrong, I feel shame for being aroused by what I am, but masturbation itself I'm not ashamed of.  I'm working my way towards seeing a therapist--I've been incredibly depressed and near suicide the past few weeks but I've recently sprung back and seem to feel some empowerment in bettering my life, thus the psot here.  We'll see how long it lasts.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 01:59:57 PM
Sigh, yeah, not exactly what I was hoping for (though to be honest, what I was hoping for was for someone to tell me the answer and what to do--unrealistic, I know).  I do very much appreciate the replies though.  How would I go about finding a gender specialist?  Apologies, I fully admit that I'm just some kid who doesn't know how to do anything and being paralyzed with anxiety whenever I go someplace new doesn't help.

I just don't know what I want or who I am which is part of why being told 'only you know what's right for you' is frustrating.  Very worried about making the wrong decision and I feel like my sexuality gets in the way of looking at things objectively.  I'm sure many have experienced that the urge to be a woman is very strong while masturbating but afterwards you feel a huge amount of shame and self-loathing.  I'm worried that simply the fact that I'm aroused by even thinking of transitioning clouds my judgement by making me think that I want something which I don't.  Testosterone is a pain. <_<

If you identify as female, then transition might alleviate a great deal of anxiety, fear, depression, and/or other emotions that hold one back from life in any way. If you identify with  ->-bleeped-<-, you have an added question to ask yourself - is transition merely a sexual journey? Or is it a journey to happiness?

If it is the former, then my opinion would be to leave your journey at crossdressing and crossexpression. However, if you need to transition to be happy (or if you would just be a LOT happier doing so), then by all means pursue it.

Simply... does the idea of everyone calling you 'she', by a female name, and thinking of you as female for the rest of your life make you smile? Produce a sense of longing? If so, you will probably want to make the journey. You can always stop if it isn't for you.

Quote from: Beverley on February 17, 2012, 01:14:50 PM
The best explanation I have seen is"Sexuality is who you go to bed WITH, gender is who you go to bed AS"

Beverley

Ha! Awesome. I'm using that in my course next term when I talk about gender and transgender issues in the workplace.

Hi Hesitant,

As others have said there are no simple answers and if you are not ready to see a therapist then there is no need. Sometimes we have to become comfortable with 'us' before we realise that being 'us' is enough or that we want to go to a different type of 'us'.

There is nothing wrong with masturbation with any thoughts in you head as fantasy's to masturbate to. Often this may help our subconscious to tell us what we really are and to let us develop our consciousness. Then it may be  time to seek a therapist. Many people go through stages in their development and change directions until they become complete.

For example Drag Queens are entertainment for many people. Straight men and Gay men no doubt get entertained by them. That doesn't mean the straight guys are Gay, or closeted, or secret TVs. It just means they like that sort of entertainment. I use the example deliberately as it may be reflected in your thoughts. But there are many others. I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of people who enjoy F1 racing realise that there is no way they could drive at that level, unless they are 16-18 yr old males who have had a few beers .

So do take your time. My advice to you at the moment would be to stick around here, post in areas you are interested in get comfy with people from Grannies such as I to people with your age and background, you will make friends and relax, HEAPs. Especially when you make friends and start to talk to them off line and online.

One of our big problems at home etc is that we often don't have people to talk to. We think we will be ridiculed, insulted and hurt. That will not happen here.

Here are some rules to live by to help you.


Hi, and welcome to Susan's! We have people come to visit us from all over the world, expressing different points of view, and you are likely to find someone to help you along your way   

Here are some important links and things to ponder as you begin your journey here.


•   Site Terms of Service and rules to live by are in the announcement area and include:
•   Standard Terms and Definitions
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Feel free to post and discuss anything within the rules, if you make a mistake, don't panic, report it to a Mod, there is a button to the right of your post.
If a post upsets, or is insulting to you report it to a Mod. Do not take action yourself. We are here to help you and maintain the site for all.
Our mission is to be a support site for gender dysmorphic people of any situation, so feel at home and feel comfortable. You are now family.

So welcome Honey and don't be shy. We all were once.

Hugs

Cindy
 

Hi Hesitant,
Welcome to Susan's. You're family now, by choice, and are quite safe, to express whatever is on your mind. No need to be sorry or apologise for expressing yourself, whichever way you know how. Just don't use smoke signals, I can't see them from here and they'll probably affect the ozone layer.

Some of your feelings and your journey I can identify with, so take heart in knowing you are quite normal. Whatever that is. Sure the therapy road is a good one, but lets just see if we can get you to a point of understanding yourself a bit better. As you said, you're only 21. There's heaps of time for you to develop and grow into an incredibly functioning and awesome individual.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Hey all, I've been lurking here for years but didn't get the nerve to set up an account until recently.

Congratulations. A positive step forward in your 'Leap of Faith' to fulfillment.   85% of a rockets fuel load is used before it even gets an inch off the ground. The other 15% takes it to the stars and beyond. You have just left the launch pad. 

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I'm not sure where I fit into the whole transgender space.

That's OK. This is HUGE place and is multidimensional. Lets just work on your thoughts and feelings and worry about a title or label, later.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I find myself looking at a girl I'm attracted to and thinking about what it would be like to have a body like hers and I don't know if that's envy because of being in the wrong body or if it's sexual.

Nothing unusual about that. You can take it one step further and think, "What would it be like TO BE her"   I had the same feelings whether it was envy or sexual. The more I though, discussed, searched, the more it became very evident it was envy by a long shot.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
At the same time I feel a bit under the gun.  I'm only 21 and I experienced puberty late so I feel a bit under pressure to make a decision over whether or not to explore transition soon just because of how the effects of hormones decrease with age very quickly after puberty.

Hey!! Take the pressure off yourself. You have all the time in the world to work this through. It's not a race. There is no timeline that you have to meet. One of our family who recently went to the 'Other Side' said it wasn't a race. Although she did it in an amazing 16 months, she said it was all about a series of sequences. She carried out each sequence when she felt right about it. And what an awesome woman she has turned out to be.
Secondly, the effects of hormones are very dependent on each individual.  Yes, they do decrease after puberty, but not at such a rapid rate you infer.
Thirdly and more importantly, you mentioned you experienced late puberty. This will explain why you have had the feelings of depression, and have lost your direction, and  the plethora of associated feeling and sensations. Not only is there considerable physical upheaval during puberty, there is substantial mental redevelopment going on as well. It almost equates to a total rewrite/remap of the brain. It's why anyone going through puberty always appear to be off the planet. It's because they are. What was know up to this stage, now no longer works as well as it did, and, good grief; what are all these new feelings, sensations, thoughts and experiences, these wretched hormones are turning on, all mean? Your previous terms of reference are no longer valid and you MUST learn a whole heap of new ones. (Where's the manual? What do you mean, I didn't come with one!) And we haven't even touched on the physical changes yet. For a young developing individual, this is an enormous amount of change to deal with in such a short period of time.
Most of your current terms of reference are pre pubescent, and although quite valid for your mental state at the time, need to be given their due respect and treated appropriately. (Enter the therapist, who can assist you in sifting through what's good and what's not) To give you an example: Your physique has developed to a stage where you can now walk, there is no need for you to crawl, yet it is still a good skill to remember when attempting to go under a house, or other confined space.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Sorry if I've rambled or if things don't make sense.

No need for apology in expressing your thought and feelings. You're OK

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I also have severe social anxieties which often prevent me from seeking help or talking to people

This is only temporary. Probably due to pubescent changes to your mental state. It'll wear off soon enough; probably to the extent we won't be able to shut you up   

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
the only reason I'm posting here is because of the strong urgings of several friends.

You need to keep those friends; AT ALL COSTS. They are your lifeline. Go give them a hug, or at least a big thanks. People like that, money can't buy.  .... There's lots here like it.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I've been quite deeply depressed for the past several years and I've pretty much given up on life.  Though it's not specifically because of my sexuality and gender identity, being very unsure of something so basic that most people take for granted is very stressful.

Explains the theory of pubescent mental development. Bit like a building that is being totally refurbished. Commercially, can't do a lot with it, until the builders move out. Then we can get back to business as usual.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I don't want to commit to therapy or transition if I'll come out the other side as depressed and suicidal as before.

I haven't heard of a case where that has happened under a good therapist. Certainly some 'bodgie' ones out there, but a good one is worth his/her salt. They have your best interests at heart, and want you to succeed in whatever you do. Think of yourself as sailing uncharted waters. A good rudder would be a nice thing to have on board, irrespective of which way the wind blows. Although, you like sailing, it'd be good to reach a nice destination while out here.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Don't know really what I want people to say,

Good !! Try not to put your words into our mouths. Let us express our feelings and experiences to you. We all have two ears and one mouth. Hence the need to listen twice as hard.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
I'm just very confused and scared.

Go get a cup of tea/coffee, whatever, that calms you down. 'Veg' (chill) out for a bit, and take the pressure off yourself. You have plenty of time. You are safe, and in good company. We are here for you. Relax.
And thanks for being so honest and open.

Quote from: Hesitant on February 17, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Anyone else been in the same situation?

Yes. ... And I survived, as did many others.
Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

I can perhaps relate, only in that I felt "under the gun," too, but I'm 29. I had to convince myself (rightly, of course) that I'm still YOUNG and that things will be fine, provided that I'm diligent and willing to put in the work. You're 21, and it's totally legitimate to feel the pressure to do things quickly, but just know that you'll be so much happier if you take your time and plan things out. Generally this takes 2-4 years to "complete" (yeah, I know that it's never "complete"). That feels like eternity because it's probably occupying your mind constantly, as it is with me. But you have to stay balanced with work and life: you can't let this completely consume you. You'll need a job and a solid support group around you, and that's one thing you can focus on right now.

And...see a therapist (Couldn't resist.)

Thanks everyone, you're all making me feel very welcome and like this is something that's manageable instead of this huge problem that's so bit it's impossible to tackle--should've done this years ago .   I'm a little self-conscious about bumping this to the top of the page (been a long time since I've participated in a forum) but I really wanted to thank everyone.

All of this is because I've recently cut ties with someone who was my best friend for years but I really think that being friends with her was not in my best interests.  And even though it was bittersweet, I felt empowered afterwards because for the first time in years I took a positive step towards getting better and happier instead of suffering in silence.  And I've been trying to build on that.  At the moment it seems like the right things to do are all the things I'm most terrified of so I'm just following my fears for the moment.   Think I'm going to really try to see counseling of some sort next week.  It's the serenity prayer: Change the things I can, accept the things I can't, and have the wisdom to know the difference.  I think I'm getting some wisdom.

(Oh, and as an aside, do all the verifications for posting go away after I reach a certain number of posts or something?  I understand it's to keep the spambots out but it is kinda irritating to have to do three verifications every time. <_<)

...at 15 posts.

Hmmm, then it seems I have my work cut out for me.  I'll get there eventually.

I came across your post rather by random in a search engine and I registered just to reply to it. You stated that the you were sexually aroused by the thought of being a woman and this has caused you some confusion over your gender identity....more or less.

As a biological female, who is not particularly effeminate, nor horribly masculine, and knows a lot about gender issues, and sex differentiation, I thought I'd give my two cents.

If there is a component of sexual arousal, you probably don't actually want to be a woman for any other reason than you find the thought of it arousing. You are likely a male by gender and this is a fetish of yours.

I think actually transitioning and living as a woman would be much different than you envision it. For one, most of the male libido is controlled by male hormones, and once you start taking female hormones, it is likely going to change. Many women...usually feminists, will go up in arms if you claim the female libido does not parallel that of a male, for fear that their sexual urges won't be acknowledged, but the truth is, it usually doesn't measure up.

I think there is probably a percentage of individuals who have transitioned because of a strong sexually arousing component, and I think these individuals are probably the first to feel like they've made a big mistake, because suddenly, the component is gone and they have made permanent changes to their body which no longer serve their purpose.

For anyone considering transitioning, I think you should ask how you would feel if after doing so, you were left with no libido or sexual desires, or maybe even without the ability to feel sexual pleasure...would you still be happy? On top of that, ask if you would have transitioned if you lived in a society where it was perfectly acceptable for men to pain their nails, wear dresses, and have what we consider female oriented interests.

I find most potential male to female transexuals I come into contact with, if there is not a sexual component, a lot of them really just have a liking for things society has told them are for women to like only, so they reason that must mean they should have been women. But that's like a woman 60 years ago who preferred wearing pants to dresses, reasoning she should have been born a man.

It's ok to be a man and like feminine things, just like it's ok to be a woman and like things that are considered masculine.

I should add, I do acknowledge there are some biological out there who just identify as female at a very deep level, and always have, and would be much more at peace as women. My last post was not directed at you. It was to help people who are confused about their gender identity and might consider transitioning for what are probably not the right reasons.

Quote from: JustMe on July 25, 2012, 04:22:58 AM
I should add, I do acknowledge there are some biological out there who just identify as female at a very deep level, and always have, and would be much more at peace as women. My last post was not directed at you. It was to help people who are confused about their gender identity and might consider transitioning for what are probably not the right reasons.

Thank you for the clarification.

This is one of the reasons we recommend people seek professional gender therapist consults.

Please do read the Rules in the Announcement area, they are pertinent to your post.

Cindy James
Global Moderator.