Ok I admit it, I'm a bit of a "conspiracy theorist" (it's what we're called when we don't trust the government blindly and completely!), and this scares the living hell out of me!

http://alternativenewsreport.net/2011/03/29/rfid-evil-laws/

It's not just the whole police state, constant observation aspect, but being branded by my birth name/gender for life. There's probably no hope of changing either your name OR your gender marker in a world where electronically labelled and cataloged as what the government wants us to be (which is based on what the doctor saw between your legs when you were born!). This stuff literally almost whips me into a panic attack just thinking about it.

Seriously, that's half of my concern/worry/fear over my name change being denied to me next month, is that if everything in this country does go straight to hell, if my name change actually gets approved, then AT LEAST I will die by my true identity instead of the one that was assigned to me that makes me feel like I'm living a humiliating lie!! S**t really freaks me out, man. 

I feel the same way, but what if we're forced, at gun point, or go to prison, or get sentenced to death? I really worry about what's to come in the near future sometimes.

There are already such chips in Passports and credit cards and other things - so you're a little late to the party to be bitching about it on one more card.

No conspiracy.  It's been talked about to death.  This has always been public.  No conspiratorial theory, people want this I think.  It's highly likely that in an emergency having all that information right there, right now, just might save your life.

Since all this goes back to the 1990s, (and the dream of being able to do it, for decades before that) naming it with the 'Obamacare' is silly, we don't call it JohnsonCare, or Roosevelt Security - as any card, as part of any plan, would pretty much want this because the technology is finally available.

Your new name will be legally tied to you old name no matter what - it was in the 'old world' of the pre-information age and open to all researchers, it's just that its' instantly available to the government now.  But I for one never thought they would stop the dream of TIA (Total Information Awareness) and the first step to that was to centralize all information into a single file.  That was done long ago.  You prints are already in the big database if you've ever been fingerprinted for a crime, for security checks, for government employment, for a drivers license, or the military or any other number of reasons.  Running your SSN# through a government database will pull up the same info that going to be on any RRF chip.

I'm talking about a chip implanted in our skin, assuming it will have only my birth name attached to it. That's what I don't want. And I have an aluma-wallet to block the rfid signal of my cards.

Why assume that any chips will be more than just an ID to index into a db.  Current health info is going to change during your life so you don't want to be writing that to a non-removalable device.

And why do they even need to be implanted?  There would be way too much pushback from "evangelical christians" that it was the mark of the beast.  And then the whole Holocaust tattooing similarities will kill any mandatory policy. 

As Tekla said it is already out there unless you have gone to great lengths and don't interact with society much.

Quote from: thefire on February 18, 2012, 02:39:31 PM
...but what if we're forced, at gun point, or go to prison, or get sentenced to death?

More likely it would just get increasingly difficult to live a normal life without finally giving in. It'll be like a social security number. For a while, you can avoid getting one, and then for a while after that you can avoid handing it out to everyone, but in time it'll become expected and routine. If they decided to do this, eventually you won't be able to get a bank account, then you won't be able to fly, then ride trains or buses, then you won't be able to drive... etc. They'll maintain the illusion that you've chosen to go along with it when the reality is that you've been pushed into a corner tighter and tighter until you finally give in and hand over what little notion of privacy you'd managed to hold onto.

Lol yall.

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. -- Revelation 13:17

If you're going to deerp, go full deerp.

Quote from: dalebert on February 18, 2012, 07:21:17 PM
More likely it would just get increasingly difficult to live a normal life without finally giving in. It'll be like a social security number. For a while, you can avoid getting one, and then for a while after that you can avoid handing it out to everyone, but in time it'll become expected and routine. If they decided to do this, eventually you won't be able to get a bank account, then you won't be able to fly, then ride trains or buses, then you won't be able to drive... etc. They'll maintain the illusion that you've chosen to go along with it when the reality is that you've been pushed into a corner tighter and tighter until you finally give in and hand over what little notion of privacy you'd managed to hold onto.

It would first be rolled out as a convenience. We already have credit cards that can be waved in front of a reader instead of swiped, but with the new "EZ Wallet" subdermal chip there is no need to carry a driver's license, credit card, medical insurance card, or even library card; just wave your hand over the "EZ Spot" reader and get on with your day. Wave to buy groceries. Wave to check in at the doctor's office. Wave to check out a library book. Wave to log on to your computer. Wave to bypass security at the airport if you have been "vetted". "Early adopters", tech geeks, busy people, and the like would all jump at this newest "shiny thing".

Then, as more and more people adopt the chip for convenience, things like paper id cards and paper money will be used less and less. Eventually, the government announces the end of paper money as a cost-saving measure. Most businesses do likewise with respect to physical ID. Suddenly, you can no longer buy food, pay bills, get medical care, or apply for a job without getting chipped because the old ways of doing business have become obsolete, like buggy whips in the 21st century. It's still legal to not have a chip, but good luck surviving in society without it.

Finally, to help protect society from criminals, Congress passes a law to allow authorities to track every usage of a person's chipped ID "so that criminals can monitored or identified by patterns in their chip scans". Furthermore, a person's chip ID can now be blocked in the system as a way of "freezing" criminally acquired assets or for other "reasonable law enforcement purposes"; the person effectively ceases to exist in the system until unblocked.

Now, even though nobody is required to be chipped, those who refuse are now looked on with suspicion or mocked as being crazy...much like some of today's "militia groups". After all, "only a troublemaker or a crazy person would refuse to take part in normal society".

It may be a conspiracy theory, but I do think it is perfectly plausible given enough time even without any malice motivating the change. Revelation 13:17 indeed.

I'm not sayin' nothin'.

Like Tekla said, it's been talked about for the past several years. And not "in just another card"...but implanted transdermally. And, there are some variants that include GPS location, as well.

It has been successfully field-tested on humans already. They had a LINE of people waiting for it. And about 2003ish, they (the "Digital Angel" people) were asking for "regional distributorships" and investors to fund it.

If you're over 30, there's absolutely no excuse for not knowing about it, and having made plans to deal with it in an appropriate fashion.

I am a bit surprised that it will happen so soon, though. (ie, 2013). I would've guessed another 10 years "or so."

Before you all decide the world is fixing to end.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/microchip.asp

The same site explaining how we all will be forced to have chips implanted also warns how "You can be secretly tracked via RFID through your Nike Ipod Spot kit"

Quote from: Stephe on February 18, 2012, 11:59:40 PM
Before you all decide the world is fixing to end.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/microchip.asp

The same site explaining how we all will be forced to have chips implanted also warns how "You can be secretly tracked via RFID through your Nike Ipod Spot kit"

LOL...yes, I have been bitch-slapped. Thank you. And thank you, Snopes, for being on top of rumors.

But, I stand by my concerns about "digital angel."

You can already be tracked using your phone.

there will always be public opposition that would probably hinder the passing of the requirement, this does scare me too, cause I don't want to be tracked by my government , my insane joke of a government.

altho if the world ends of December 21st , we will not have to worry about 2013.

I don't think US Government is the main worry to be honest.  They are too inept to actually pull off a large project like that - they can't even keep bridges up or the price of stamps down.  It's the same, but now larger and less efficient, government that knew enemy planes were approaching Pearl Harbor, but was so inept as to be unable to communicate that to anyone that mattered.  In the USA, I'd worry much more about credit agencies and similar services, who, unlike the government, basically have free reign to share your history with whoever wants to pay them.

I worked doing people identification for government.  I see getting chips implanted about as likely as the US returning to the moon.

Besides: They already have your history, including your past name.  It's available in numerous government databases, no matter how careful you were, at least if you ever received any government services and kept receiving them (such as mail, social security card, driver's license, any public assistance, dependent of a government worker, police contact, car license plates, attended college/got a degree, applied for federal student aid, bought a handgun, filed taxes, have a kid in school, crossed an international border, have ever had a hunting/fishing license, etc).  Even for changes like birth certificate corrections (not changes, but actual corrections where a new birth certificate is issued), I'd bet anyone $100 that they keep an "audit log" of all entries/deletions/corrections/etc that is generally not available to the public, but is available internally within the agency (if for no other reason than to keep staff from creating themselves 20 dependents on paper).  The only thing that allows stealth today is that most of these government workers actually follow the laws that protect that data.  But all it takes is one that doesn't.  Most people aren't going to have the ability to disappear (at the very least, most people today are going to have social security cards and will seek to correct them rather than illegally establish a new social security account).

I do think everyone should care how these government agencies combine data between databases (what are the consequences, for instance, of tying child support databases to hunting license databases, for people who are trans?  I have no idea, but I'll bet there is some consequences).  And we should be concerned about what data the government has - particularly how long they keep it.  Is there any reason to keep a record that I had a fishing license 10 years ago (remember, you probably showed a driver's license number or gave a social security number - which can be tied to your current records)?  As systems have went to computers, the common trend is to keep data forever, as it's cheap to do so now (vs. paper records which were a pain in the rear for agencies).  It's a lot easier to get outed than it was 10 years ago.

So swift of foot that you can outrun the future? 

Can you outrun something that is already here? 

And don't you turn over information even more powerful everyday to Google?  To Facebook?  The the grocery store?  Whole lots of people do.  Hell's bells you can offer people savings - substantial by the way -  and they will be happy - OVERJOYED - to give you access to build a data base of consumption for them based on their patterns?  Google and Facebook do the same with your computer history and a bunch of key words to your life that you happily -OVERFRICKINGJOYED - give them.

What does your phone carrier know about you?

When I first got my cell phone (2000) I switched off the GPS/location deal, knowing that I could only do that on normal calls, and any 911 call would override my 'preference' for having it off.  I sure didn't want to be tracked.  Buy you know now (2012) I have an Android.  And its' got all this cool navigation and map stuff (the maps are accurate down to the main trails and paths in the hills), and in order for it to work I have to have the GPS on.  So...  there I am, if they wanted me they could find me.  But then again, it's not all that hard to find people, they have a schedule, and most people stick to it.  And if you were going to run, well anyone knows you send your cell phone in the opposite direction in a bus or something.  And since my cell phone, and the maps, and the operating system are tied to Google, (as is my email) well, ->-bleeped-<-, that phone knows a hell of a lot about me.

They are not going to intrusively implant people (though the technology is booming with pets) because you'll happy carry it with you.  Especially if we make it all bling.  Ohh, shiny thing.  You're already there.  That cow is already way out of the barn, down the lane, through town and heading for another joint.  Little late to worry about closing the door now.


And we should be concerned about what data the government has - particularly how long they keep it.
Yes we should, but we should have been worried about that real hard about 50 years ago and let it slide, and then again about 10 and 20 years ago we should have worried real hard and didn't do it those times either.  And they keep it forever.  Your data will surely outlast you, don't know if its going to outlast petroleum though.  Perhaps we have a reprieve coming up.

Quote from: Slanan on February 19, 2012, 09:36:17 AMIt's the same, but now larger and less efficient, government that knew enemy planes were approaching Pearl Harbor, but was so inept as to be unable to communicate that to anyone that mattered.

Conspiracy theories make for good story lines and entertainment, so as long as we're on the subject of crazy-ass conspiracy theories... This video that I'd not given much thought to since I saw it came back to mind when you mentioned Pearl Harbor. About 1min 30secs in it talks about how FDR moved a bunch of obselete ships from San Diego to Pearl Harbor just before the attack and moved the newer ships away implying that they knew well ahead of time and made no effort to stop it. Don't know the veracity of that claim. I'm tempted to follow up and see. Maybe that's on Snopes also.

For what it's worth, I don't think FDR knew.

I do think some coded communication was intercepted, but not decoded and transmitted to the right people in US government.  Radar also detected the incoming planes, but that warning was disregarded (the incoming planes were wrongly determined to be US planes from the mainland).

The primary concern with the "chip in the arm/Mark of the Beast" theory is not *how much* info they have on you, it's the fact that your body is marked as being you. This creates a lot of real-time threats to your privacy, and even your physical life.

In WW2, the Jews could be hidden because clothes could be changed (no yellow star), and papers could be forged/swapped (if a suitable volunteer could be found).

Chip in the arm:

• Cannot be forged. It'll likely be hard-wired at the time of manufacture. It also will be simple: It will only contain a single number (SSAN? Not likely, if the system is to be global; it'll be something else, probably hexadecimal due to 7 billion+ people).
• Cannot be removed without noticing during the first attempted scan. Remove the chip = potential terrorist. After all, only a terrorist would remove it. I will note the USG is not the primary threat in this regard; only the nebulous "Wall Street" corporations are truly global. A modern-day "Dutch East Indies" conglomerate?
• Real-time tracking of a person's location. Even without GPS, how often does one go thru doors in a business (store, library, city hall, hospital, gas station, etc)?
• If the "gov't" (acting as itself, or as the stooge of Wall Street) decides that *you* are the enemy (Jewish? Muslim? Christian? "Right-wing extremist", "Left-wing extremist", black, white, gun owner, transgender, (insert any unpopular group here)) this real-time tracking can locate you; it will be VERY difficult to hide.
• Even if they don't know you by name, what if they decide that "people who fit *this* profile are the enemy"? People who've bought a Bible...who've bought "How to make medicine at home"...people who've bought any anti-gov't literature...etc. Yes, they have that info now; but they have to dig a bit for it. With the chip in the arm, they can locate you in seconds, issue and serve a warrant.
• If the chip in the arm system replaces cash (which is likely, imho), doing things "under the table" will be a thing of the past. Much crime was done in cash, of course...but a lot of good things (i.e., things the gov't/Wall Street doesn't need to know about) was done also. But, the propaganda machine (the Media) will promote the idea that "only terrorists use cash". Without cash, one is extremely limited in resources, should our situation necessitate avoidance of the authorities (for whatever reason).

Well the credit card replaced cash for most things a log time ago.  Heck half the people at Starbucks seem to be using those cards.  But it's your phone that is going to replace/enhance the card (many here have RRF in them, so you only tag the card as it is), I see the entire pay by smartphone deal exploding.