I honestly think it is great that he got do famous and came out in DWTS. They have always had famous gay people come and dance on the show, and some of the dancers are gay too. It was nice to finally have the T included on there! And aside from that, he got to show the US that FTMs aren't freaks. We are normal people. I love that he made the US sort of aware that we exist. Sure we are all different. But still. It was nice to have that topic thrown out there. Since it is usually just lesbian/gay issues we hear on the news with the occasions trans attack which is horrible

I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.

I completely agree with you Nick, couldn't have said it better.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 12:09:47 PM
I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.

Can you name some examples of things they have said??

Some people seem to dislike him simply because he is fat. Some people hold his lesbian past against him, although I don't see the logic of that. Some people complain that he seeks too much publicity, although I have mixed feelings about this myself. I don't know much about his lesbian activist stage, but he would have had a hard time transitioning quietly, so why not make the best of it? Some people pick apart his "female" characteristics and say he's not masculine enough. Maybe he isn't particularly masculine, but they can do this because they know he's trans and they have access to old footage of him.

And some people complain that he shouldn't try to speak for all trans men. I haven't seen enough of him to know whether he really does this. I do know that a couple of things that Bono said were quoted out of context, without his little disclaimer that he was speaking for himself. I don't remember the specific passages now, but some of it came from Letterman. Stuff like how HE looks at being trans, etc. And then he said one or two questionable things that had no appropriate context that I recall. But as I said, I'm not knowledgeable about all things Bono, and I don't want to be.

With all of that said, I don't think he comes across as particularly articulate, introspective, or enlightened. So, yeah, I'd rather have a few representatives other than Buck Angel and Chaz and even Lucas Silveira. But they will come in time, and I'm sure as heck not going to put MYself out there.

Before Chaz transitioned I loved him on celebrity fit club.  I never watched DWTS.  I haven't watched any of his interviews but from what I've heard from another guy he did he mentioned that Chaz said that "bottom surgery has bad results" but just to be fair I have seen online where he mentioned he wanted bottom surgery but here is the video of what this man was saying.  If you want to just cut to where he discusses Chaz go to 2:35-4:48

Quote from: Nick on February 19, 2012, 12:47:10 PM
Can you name some examples of things they have said??

Here's some stuff on Chaz Bono: http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our
Buck Angel: http://www.iradaltongray.com/post/14685486760/a-list-of-evidence-of-buckangel-putting-down
Ryan Cassata (the keynote speaker at this year's Philly Trans Health Con): http://bism-ishazz.tumblr.com/post/17040165734/ryan-cassata-reeks-of-famous-on-purpose-here-is

No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

To be honest, I have quite a neutral opnion on Chaz, I do agree that it would have been extremely difficult to try and transition privately, being Cher's child, so it does seem like maybe he had to kind of take charge and do it publicly before it was brought out to be a public thing with little of his influence.

Buck Angel on the other hand, I do have a problem. Simply because I completely disagree with how he does porn.

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Sure, but they should also realize that people have been really hurt by what they've said. It would also be nice if they didn't claim their words aren't hurtful/blame those who are upset.

I don't think T has really changed his face that much. I still don't think he passes. Anytime I've heard anyone talk about him something was always said along the lines of "you can always tell." My mom asked me a few weeks ago if I was going to gain a bunch of weight like Chaz. I think it fuels FTMs are freaks and not really men. It doesn't bother me that most people don't realize FTMs exist.

I dislike him because when I image search "phalloplasty" his face comes up as often as man-made penises do.

Nah actually I don't dislike him.

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Exactly. We all have a different transition experience and they happen to be out and open about it so whatever. it's their lives. as far as Chaz, I watched his special Becoming Chaz and just found him to be really rude and obnoxious, traits I don't admire in people regardless of gender/fame.

People are bitching about this quote "I think of it as hormones that, you know, went in the brain but not in the body, and that's all being transgender is. It's just that the sex of your body and the gender of the brain don't match up."

Do they not see he says "I think of it as"? I also realize MY views about what transgender means isn't going to work for all other trans people, someone who is andro etc.

Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Um...I have been. I don't try to make people "more accepting" but I do try to make people "more educated." I talk to my state representatives and talk about transgender bills. My representatives might not know me by name, but they know I exist. I run trans positive and body positive blogs. I co-run a blog for and about queer people with disabilities (many of these people are trans).

I am critical of Chaz Bono because he's said a lot of things that bother people. One person mentioned talking down on surgery. Yea you can say "I don't want bottom surgery because the results are horrible" but you're really talking about your views of other people's bodies and surgeries that they want/need.

I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

The first time I ever heard of 'Chaz Bono' was when my dad - a while back - decided to use him as a reason why I should NOT transition.

I try to be neutral, but after the above first impression and so many 'Chaz-related' responses - ranging from "So you're like Bono?  " to "Wait, you wanna be like HIM!?  " - I can't see the guy as anything but annoying...

I guess it's a good thing that I don't really watch TV. 

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Haha perfect, I second this.

Quote from: Annah on February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 PM
I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

I second this also.

The reason my dad accepted me being trans and somewhat understood it as being something we are born as, was because he saw Chaz Bono on tv. Without him, my dad wouldn't have accepted me like he did. So as much as people wanna hate, he basically made my life a tones easier so I respect him.

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
People are bitching about this quote "I think of it as hormones that, you know, went in the brain but not in the body, and that's all being transgender is. It's just that the sex of your body and the gender of the brain don't match up."

Do they not see he says "I think of it as"? I also realize MY views about what transgender means isn't going to work for all other trans people, someone who is andro etc.

Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Exactly. I wish people would calm down. Apart from the fact that he's just ONE person and it's HIS opinion, these are interviews. He is under constant scrutiny. He is bound to say something that is going to offend someone.

Quote from: Annah on February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 PM
I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

LOL I Know! I like that..."evil trans finger".  People are a tad over-sensitive. He had the...and excuse me for my language, to put himself out there like that and try to bring positivity to the trans community. Even if everyone didn't see it that way.

Quote from: James on February 19, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
The first time I ever heard of 'Chaz Bono' was when my dad - a while back - decided to use him as a reason why I should NOT transition.

I try to be neutral, but after the above first impression and so many 'Chaz-related' responses - ranging from "So you're like Bono?  " to "Wait, you wanna be like HIM!?  " - I can't see the guy as anything but annoying...

I guess it's a good thing that I don't really watch TV. 

I understand what you're saying kinda. My mother, and this was years ago, asked me if I was like Chaz. (Back when I would have died denying being trans)
Chaz, for many people who aren't aware of the trans community is the only one they can really recall or associate with FTM's. That's no one's fault. In my opinion, at least he is there for peope to know! He has his faults like everyone else. But he is genuinely trying to do good with his fame.