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Why do so many trans guys dislike Chaz Bono?

Started by nickm1492, February 19, 2012, 11:57:01 AM

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nickm1492

Quote from: Annah on February 20, 2012, 01:07:35 PM
Honestly, anything seen or unseen in this world, physical or transitory, will piss off a transgender person. It's inevitable.

Three things are certain in this life: Death, Taxes, and Offending a transgender.
LOL No kidding. I'm seeing this more and more. Everyone is so easily offended.
Quote from: Stephe on February 20, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
On the use of the word ->-bleeped-<-, you guys have any idea WHY people use slurs in the first place? Because -you- have GIVEN them a tool to attack you with. Getting mad or ashamed or whatever is telling them "Yes you found my button". All this guy has done is told bigots "If you want to piss off a transgendered person, here is what you do...." *sigh* Other groups have made the mistake of saying "it's OK for us to us it but no one else can". That just empowers the slur even more. I've had people call me "A cracker" and I just laughed :P At least in my case I'm not going to care, it will be a "Yes I'm a ->-bleeped-<- and??" moment.

Are any of these people a great role model? Of course not and I clearly think some of Chaz's comments about women are absurd. But these are also how HE feels not a "I am the spokesperson for all transpeople worldwide." I highly doubt the children on any movie star is someone we should look up to as a role model, but they are going to get a lot of media exposure.

And yes I'm proud to be at the ->-bleeped-<- party too :P

I love what you girls have to say honestly. MTF's should be in the FTM section more often. So many of us are on sites like this because we want to learn more so we can understand OURSELVES better and be happier with who we are. But then when we get hold of this information, we as a community get pissy when others, who have nothing to do with the LGBT community know nothing about being "gender queer" or things like that. It isn't a part of their life so they aren't trying to go out and understand it. And unless someone takes a stand and tries to educate others on all these things, we shouldn't get offended when someone says something. Especially if it's just their opinion. I myself never knew there was a gender queer community or even trans people who didn't want certain surgeries. I'm probably gonna say something that offends someone at one point. That doesn't mean I'm an insensitive a-hole. It just means I said something without thinking about it OR it is my opinion.
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Chamillion

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 12:09:47 PM
I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.
I agree with you Nygeel (about Chaz anyway, I'm not familiar with anything the other 2 have said).

There are few things I dislike more than misogyny.  One of them is misogyny coming from a trans man.

And for people saying he has the right to his own opinion, of course he does, and others have the right to disagree with him and criticize those opinions.  Think about people who hold racist, sexist, homophobic, etc ideas... should we give them all a pass because it's their opinion?
;D
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tekla

Some rich loud mouthed kid who feels like he knows everything about life already. Yeah now there is a great spokesperson for the community lol

Are you talking about Stephen Ira or Chaz?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Stephe

Quote from: Annah on February 20, 2012, 01:07:35 PM
Honestly, anything seen or unseen in this world, physical or transitory, will piss off a transgender person. It's inevitable.

Three things are certain in this life: Death, Taxes, and Offending a transgender.

LOL!! Love it :P
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xander

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
Here's some stuff on Chaz Bono: http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our

Chaz is basically saying the same things that this forum is flooded with. I don't think what he is saying differs from the experiences that we collectively speak about.
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schism

anyone in the public eye putting forward opinions and beliefs about a marginalised group is going to come under intense scrutiny.  someone putting themselves in that position is going to have every little thing they say picked apart by the people they represent, because they're basically used as a measuring stick for everyone else under that umbrella, which makes us pretty uncomfortable- we can't choose to separate ourselves from things they say, because the rest of society will use that image to form their own ideas about what it is to be, in this case, a transman.  i think it has to be pretty difficult to be in that position, especially given that chaz has almost been forced into the spotlight from childhood, which isn't a realistic platform from which to form a relationship with the general transgender community or even society at large.  i can't imagine how you relate to everyone when you're in the public eye from such a young age.  i think anyone who grows up in that atmosphere will have pretty obtuse ideals. 

i neither like nor dislike him- i don't know him personally, and it's hard to comment on someone as a person when all you have are bits and pieces from a media perspective.  i feel somewhat sympathetic towards any celebrity trans person... it's awkward enough having to deal with it in private.  i've seen some really really nasty comments about him on youtube.  no, i'm not particularly comfortable with him being considered the face of our community, but unless i put myself out there and start being vocal enough to try to adjust that current image, in the knowledge that anyone who doesn't like how i think is gonna rip whatever i say to shreds, i don't feel like it's fair of me to dislike him based on those grounds. 
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Darrin Scott

Quote from: schism on February 21, 2012, 05:10:19 AMi neither like nor dislike him- i don't know him personally, and it's hard to comment on someone as a person when all you have are bits and pieces from a media perspective.  i feel somewhat sympathetic towards any celebrity trans person... it's awkward enough having to deal with it in private.  i've seen some really really nasty comments about him on youtube.  no, i'm not particularly comfortable with him being considered the face of our community, but unless i put myself out there and start being vocal enough to try to adjust that current image, in the knowledge that anyone who doesn't like how i think is gonna rip whatever i say to shreds, i don't feel like it's fair of me to dislike him based on those grounds.

Agreed. People cry and moan about how Chaz said this or that, but the truth is, he's in a difficult position. A position that most here (if not all) have not or will never experience. Like Schism, I can't hate the man based on some media bites. I know I couldn't do what he's doing. Could you?





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sneakersjay

I have seen a lot of new trans people (ie newly coming out and taking steps toward transition) say a lot of things that they later change their minds about.  It is a process.  People new to the idea of transitioning and coming out are still figuring things out.  I started transition 4 years ago.  I'm sure if you go back and find my early posts i said a lot of things I no longer think are true.  In fact, I also said I'd never get lower surgery.  And I'm sure I said not-so-nice things about the results (like, if that's all I get, why bother?).  Yet now I am 1.5 years post op and thrilled beyond belief at my results.  Someone else might look at my junk and go eewww gross!

I cut Chaz a lot of slack.  Some of the things he said early in the process that are forever captured on video, he may have changed his mind about.  Like genital surgery.  He now wants it.

Life is a process. Transition is a process.  We all learn and grow and change.  We've all said things we later regretted.  Or said something that came out wrong and wasn't what we meant.  Yet we aren't being followed around by the media and having our words plastered over the internet.  Yes, Chaz sought out the media.  In his case I see how he may have wanted to be in control of his information and getting it out there his own way, rather than the rumor mill digging up his private life.  As the child of a celebrity I doubt he could have transitioned in private.  Heck, all of us transition publickly and have no control over who knows what once you come out.

And after spending time on trans forums I see a lot of trans people DO get offended over the most trivial things.  Not so much here but in other forums.  Frankly I'm over it.

Jay


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Twin Hammer Tommy

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Of course they have that right.  We all do.  But why do people say things like this and act like someone else exercising that right by disagreeing is somehow infringing on the first person's ability to have an opinion?  It's a two-way street.

Secondly, while you have a right to an opinion, not all opinions are right.   When you express one that is harmful or hurtful to another person, you enter that territory.   The only reason people are so hell bent on defending everyone's ability to spout whatever hurtful opinions someone else might have is because they do not want to look in their own backyard.  Damn right, no one's perfect.  We all mess up.  How about an adult response of "What I said was hurtful/harmful?  I'm sorry, let's discuss why that happened" instead of "IT'S JUST MY OPINION I HAVE THE RIGHT LALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

As for Chaz, I do like him.  I'm glad he's out there fighting the good fight in the ways he is.  There are times when I feel like I should be writing him a thank you note just for the visibility to trans men in the last couple years!  But he's said some sexist stuff, and he should be called out on it that.  It doesn't mean he's a bad person or that everything about him is worthless.  It just means he messed up.  How else do you guys think we can fix this stuff?
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Twin Hammer Tommy

oh and ps, when Buck Angel uses the same language that transphobes use to demoralize and degrade us "I am teaching people to love their bodies not mutilate them" we are just supposed to let that slide?  Because it's his opinion?

You really think that opinion about real people's bodies is okay?
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caseyyy

Quote from: Twin Hammer Tommy on February 21, 2012, 05:03:02 PM
oh and ps, when Buck Angel uses the same language that transphobes use to demoralize and degrade us "I am teaching people to love their bodies not mutilate them" we are just supposed to let that slide?  Because it's his opinion?

You really think that opinion about real people's bodies is okay?

+1
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