Quote from: Padma on February 26, 2012, 03:40:19 AM
Let's hear it for QUILTBAG!!!

Now that makes more sense than any other point of view. 

Quote from: Gretchen on February 25, 2012, 06:51:37 PM
Why is it LGBT or GLBT why isn't it TLGB or TGLB? Is it because the T is riding on the coat tails of the LG political machine? I for one say TLGB when I happen to be talking about that subject and at times it really trips people up, it's almost as though I spoke in a foreign language.

i honestly do not think  there is any political deviancy behind it.

I say LGBT and i'm trans (and i am not against myself). It's just the way I say it. I think you trip people up...not because of the political deviancy behind it, but because people are used to hearing/saying LGBT/GLBT. Honestly, if someone said to me verbally TLGB, it would take me a few moments to figure out what they are talking about...unless they use it in a context.

Quote from: Pippa on February 26, 2012, 05:00:11 AM
I have never understood why trans issues have been glued to the Lgbt agenda.  You are linking gender issues with issues of sexuality and they are not the same thing.  In fact many in the trans community have suffered as much maltreatment from the gay community as they have from the rest of the world.

Your last sentence answered your own issue of why T is in LGBT (well the second half anyways). Just because some Gays and Lesbians said something against Trans people doesn't mean they all do. So we shuoldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Hell, last time I checked, Gays and Lesbians are angels compared to what the Trans community do to other trans people.  From my experiences the ratio of Trans treating trans like crap compared to L/G treating trans like crap is easily 100:1

Lesbians and Gays know it is not a sexuality issue. They do know we go through as much civil rights attacks as Lesbians and Gays do. So I like having us included.

Quote from: Annah on February 26, 2012, 07:23:15 AM
i honestly do not think  there is any political deviancy behind it.

I don't think so either.

Quote from: Padma on February 26, 2012, 05:33:32 AM
We're all under the same umbrella even though we shouldn't be, but it's protecting us from the same spit.

^ This is made of win.

Quote from: Annah on February 26, 2012, 07:27:45 AM
Hell, last time I checked, Gays and Lesbians are angels compared to what the Trans community do to other trans people.  From my experiences the ratio of Trans treating trans like crap compared to L/G treating trans like crap is easily 100:1

Lesbians and Gays know it is not a sexuality issue. They do know we go through as much civil rights attacks as Lesbians and Gays do. So I like having us included.

I seem to find good support from the trans persons I interact with face-to-face. Online, it's a different story. Overall, I find that the bulk of my support comes from cis persons, gay and straight alike.

There is no political deviancy in it.  It's not some slight-of-hand chicanery , its' a bit of PC and a lot of history.

In the beginning, there was a gay movement.  The birth of that movement really occured at two places, Stonewall in NYC and Comptons in SF that were really what we would call 'trans' places now, but then - of course - there was no such language.  Hell.  They didn't really even have 'gay' yet.  But those first events known as gay liberation

Lesbian came in the 80s, and as correctly observed it was done in the LG as a very deliberate effort to avoid misogyny.  That LG and not GL was in every formal naming using that nomenclature.  Though 'gay and lesbian...' is still the overwhelming choice of spoken American English usage.  So that the LG (and not GL) was kinda of a victory of style perhaps, but no one else used it.   B was kind of added as an afterthought, and they really, really don't matter.

So in the 90s efforts to include (after a lengthy debate BTW) T and I were made.  At the time I argued that their issues/cause/demands/whatever, were different and SHOULD NOT BE included, and were dropped.  The T activists - most of whom had been a part of the gay scene, or organized around the gay power structure, or just using common facilities  - and having a lot more in common then they had different, including enemies - worked hard to put the T in there for a bunch of reasons.  Later stuff Q/QQetc. were added in sequence according to the latest self-labeling fad in a historical progression.