I find it ironic that I spent the first half of my life telling lies, and now I am spending the second half of my life telling lies.

Early in my transition I would tell just about anyone who showed interest in me that I am a trans-woman.  However, 4+ years later I am now feeling the need to be more stealth like when it comes to interacting with the people I meet.  Recently I moved into a new apartment building so I decided this would be the perfect opportunity for me to test the stealthy waters.

Every Saturday morning there's a women's group who meet in the clubhouse for breakfast.  Since the conversation consists of mostly small talk between one another I am usually able to avoid bringing up any specific details about my past life.  However, one of the ladies there and I are starting to become friends.  I enjoy our conversations but I find myself purposely steering the conversation away from myself and on to her to avoid saying something that may cause suspicion.  (For example, slipping and saying something like, "I was in the boy scouts," instead of saying "I was in the girl scouts.")  Right now it looks like my options are to make up a bunch of stories about my past in order to maintain my stealth or to not be friends with her (or anyone else) in the building.

Looking with hindsight I wish I had not been so vocal about being TG, it seems at work I have been demoted without being demoted; like they slowly are pushing me in the background, no more opportunities to gain visbility, etc. I guess, I -like the rest of us- have to pay the price of being myself.

I hate lies, I told lies, and at the end they come back to bite me in the arse. I share your pain

Peky

My grandmother used to say: ' tell the truth and shame the devil!'   Honesty always turns out to be the best policy in the long-term.   If you start telling this women that you were in the girl scouts instead of the boys scouts then you are on a slippery slope.  Before you know it you'll be telling more lies to cover earlier lies and then you'll start telling whopping lies and when this woman finds out the truth she won't want to be friends with a liar.  What is worse in that situation you won't just have lost a friend but you will have made an enemy.   The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  Tell her the truth about yourself, and let her decided if she can live with the truth.

When I get north of the county line to visit my SO's family it becomes very difficult very fast to know what is the truth anymore.  This is because, apparently, time does not heal all wounds and the fallout from a divorce that happened 20+ years ago is still fresh. It's so stressful and it makes me not like my future in-laws.

So I agree with Princess of Hearts, go the truth route.  I get that this may not be preferred because you'll get the "trans" prefix on your womanhood in your friend's mind.  But, one thing I've learned in going through all this is even when I know someone else is trans, I can still see them as nothing less than 100% woman (or man as the trans case may be).  If you lie and your friend finds out later you lied, then you risk being seen only as 100% liar, or traitor.

I think your heart knows what is right by the fact you posted this here for comment.  Really all I can say is, follow your heart.

Thank you for your comments.  I did some research and came across an in-depth article about the advantages and disadvantages of choosing to be stealth or to be open.  (If interested, you can read her article here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS-III.html#anchor406783 ) 

Lynn writes what I am feeling better then I can.

She writes:

QuoteContinuity of employment during transition and being able to continue past personal relationships can provide wonderful support for TS women who are open during their transitions and in the early years afterwards. However, this advantage often comes at the cost of being treated as "trannies" instead of as women. Their strong connections with the past often marginalize them in their new gender and keep such women from fully assimilating.
...
After all, constantly interacting with people who know about your past reminds the transitioner herself of her past. It keeps her "looking backwards" instead of "forwards". This is one of those weird effects that you can only understand by experiencing it. It is an insidious effect, because to experience it you must find ways to not experience it first! Only by living some of the time in a stealthy manner can you sense the profound contrast between being among people who "don't know" vs those "who do know".

I know this may sound selfish but I really don't want to be the token trans-woman where I now live.  Before moving to a big city I transitioned in a small rural town and I know from experience that once I tell someone, sooner or later everyone will know.  Maybe that's okay.  I guess the reality of it is I need to face up to the fact that I am a trans-woman now and I will always be a trans-woman. 

Thanks again for the comments.

i tell the truth if the question comes up or the conversation and occasion needs it and I find I'm included in just as a normal woman...its quite interesting to discuss period and menopause problems especially as most people have no idea of what their internal plumbing is like.

I don't see any difference if you have medically become a woman or if you are a genetic woman. Most of the people can not understand the transsexuality. Why would you expose yourself to unneeded stress. Nobody knows that I have been a man before and I always tell lies about my past. I just tell the same story always

I'm in the same boat.  I am about 4 years on T and fully male.  I tell the truth, but you an omit things and still be truthful. I was in scouts, without specifying girl scouts.  They will assume GS.  I say 'when I was a kid' a lot.   It all flows a heck of a lot easier now because I truly believe I was male my whole life, and am forgetting that I ever had to live as anything else.


Jay

I'm a liar.

I've been a liar my whole life.

When I was a kid I lied because I wanted people to like me, or to just not hate me.
As a teenager I lied because I didn't feel I could trust my mother and didn't feel I could meet her expectations.
As an adult I lie because I feel I will be judged if I tell the truth about my messed up childhood and teenage years.

I lie because I feel like I have no other options, people force me to lie. I tell the truth as much as I can because I don't like lying, but sometimes I feel I have no alternative.

Being transgender is like that too, I lie because I feel I don't have another choice.

People will say you can't lie forever. They're wrong, it's not impossible, just difficult. You have to be smart, know when to lie and when not to lie, know what to say that's deceptive but not untrue. Learn how to manipulate people.

It sucks, but to me, it feels like the truth is a luxury I don't have. I wish I did but I don't.

Try not to make up stories, try to adapt the truth the way you like it. It's an easier lie to maintain, and easier on your conscience.

It's not a lie if you believe it.

Quote from: swan on March 11, 2012, 11:29:48 AM
I don't see any difference if you have medically become a woman or if you are a genetic woman. Most of the people can not understand the transsexuality. Why would you expose yourself to unneeded stress. Nobody knows that I have been a man before and I always tell lies about my past. I just tell the same story always

Actually I agree with this. Your telling people, because you are wanting approval of who you are, ? do you need their permission to be a woman ? NO. Telling them what you are or were, in this case, won't actually lead you to gaining any more browny - or "girl scout" badges. If they accept you as a woman they they don't NEED to know. If they don't accept you as a woman they do not need to know either. Don't feel guilty about it, either, most of them won't even understand even if you do tell them. I can comfortably tell you that from my own experience.

I don't really understand this. I feel like, for the first time in my life, I don't have to lie. I'm not trying to pretend (badly) that I'm a guy; I can just be myself. My transsexualism has never come up in conversation. And I don't bring it up. Same as I don't usually bring up the fact that I'm a high school drop out, or that I cut for 9 years, or that I have 3 suicide attempts. It's not ->-bleeped-<- that you just suddenly burst out with.

And, I dunno, maybe I'm weird but I never did ANYTHING gender-specific growing up. Literally nil. I have no tales I need to spin, no stories I need to hide. There is nothing in my life that is any different other than my body is a different shape and I don't want to die. If, for example, the topic of periods comes up, I simply say that I don't get periods: I have a birth defect. People don't ask for more detail than that 'cause it would be seriously socially inept. Just like nobody asked when I told the group I volunteer with that I was going in for surgery and would be MIA for a few weeks. What possible reason would they have for asking "what surgery," what possible reason would I have for telling them?

Honestly, I wonder if that's the problem sometimes. A lot of trans folk spend all this time internally obsessed, damaged, have horrible experiences and by the time they come out are fairly socially dysfunctional. I feel it myself in all the experiences I'm missing, in all the situations I feel awkward in. But seriously, it is ORDINARY not to inform casual friends and acquaintances of extremely personal information. That is the standard in our society. Do you really imagine that the other women in that group don't have their own issues? The one who was raped at 16, the one whose father killed himself, the one who spent 6 months in a psych institute. People are ->-bleeped-<-ed up. Keeping it to yourself is not lying, it's having a little social grace.

Quote from: Sarah7 on March 12, 2012, 06:20:55 PM
I don't really understand this. I feel like, for the first time in my life, I don't have to lie. I'm not trying to pretend (badly) that I'm a guy; I can just be myself. My transsexualism has never come up in conversation. And I don't bring it up. Same as I don't usually bring up the fact that I'm a high school drop out, or that I cut for 9 years, or that I have 3 suicide attempts. It's not ->-bleeped-<- that you just suddenly burst out with.

Sara7, What would you say if you become friends with a non-trans person and he or she asked: "Are you a transsexual?"

Quote from: Sarah7 on March 12, 2012, 06:20:55 PM
I don't really understand this. I feel like, for the first time in my life, I don't have to lie. I'm not trying to pretend (badly) that I'm a guy; I can just be myself. My transsexualism has never come up in conversation. And I don't bring it up. Same as I don't usually bring up the fact that I'm a high school drop out, or that I cut for 9 years, or that I have 3 suicide attempts. It's not ->-bleeped-<- that you just suddenly burst out with.

And, I dunno, maybe I'm weird but I never did ANYTHING gender-specific growing up. Literally nil. I have no tales I need to spin, no stories I need to hide. There is nothing in my life that is any different other than my body is a different shape and I don't want to die. If, for example, the topic of periods comes up, I simply say that I don't get periods: I have a birth defect. People don't ask for more detail than that 'cause it would be seriously socially inept. Just like nobody asked when I told the group I volunteer with that I was going in for surgery and would be MIA for a few weeks. What possible reason would they have for asking "what surgery," what possible reason would I have for telling them?

Honestly, I wonder if that's the problem sometimes. A lot of trans folk spend all this time internally obsessed, damaged, have horrible experiences and by the time they come out are fairly socially dysfunctional. I feel it myself in all the experiences I'm missing, in all the situations I feel awkward in. But seriously, it is ORDINARY not to inform casual friends and acquaintances of extremely personal information. That is the standard in our society. Do you really imagine that the other women in that group don't have their own issues? The one who was raped at 16, the one whose father killed himself, the one who spent 6 months in a psych institute. People are ->-bleeped-<-ed up. Keeping it to yourself is not lying, it's having a little social grace.

OK I feel the need to respond to your comments, I agree with what you said there, EVERYONE has their own issues and problems,. This is why you don't really need to tell 'anyone' anything, about your past. Well if you think you did nothing gender specific, that's one thing, but do others around you who knew you growing up feel the same ? its not always what we think we do, its what were doing subconsciously that people usually identify as being gender specific. Everyone has horrible memories of some thing in their lives too, it doesn't mean they have to tell everyone about it either. My 'tales' are some thing I 'chose' to share with you all by the way, not that I had to, but to tell you were all human, and we all have experiences of having to face our parents with such a huge thing as 'coming out' to them. Funny thing is most of them, if they are not blind, dumb, or stupid, actually 'knew' anyway, and you discover that all along you were worrying about nothing. Fact is that they just didn't either want to acknowledge what was going on with their child, and chose to ignore it as some kind of phase, OR, they were waiting for this moment, that you have just now sprung on them.

Catherine.

Quote from: Dora on March 12, 2012, 06:47:36 PM
Sara7, What would you say if you become friends with a non-trans person and he or she asked: "Are you a transsexual?"

I don't know how I can answer that. It's not a situation I've ever been in, nor one I'm ever likely to be in. I suppose it would depend on my level of trust with the individual in question.

Quote from: Kitty_Babe on March 12, 2012, 06:49:20 PM
OK I feel the need to respond to your comments, I agree with what you said there, EVERYONE has their own issues and problems,. This is why you don't really need to tell 'anyone' anything, about your past. Well if you think you did nothing gender specific, that's one thing, but do others around you who knew you growing up feel the same ? its not always what we think we do, its what were doing subconsciously that people usually identify as being gender specific. Everyone has horrible memories of some thing in their lives too, it doesn't mean they have to tell everyone about it either. My 'tales' are some thing I 'chose' to share with you all by the way, not that I had to, but to tell you were all human, and we all have experiences of having to face our parents with such a huge thing as 'coming out' to them. Funny thing is most of them, if they are not blind, dumb, or stupid, actually 'knew' anyway, and you discover that all along you were worrying about nothing. Fact is that they just didn't either want to acknowledge what was going on with their child, and chose to ignore it as some kind of phase, OR, they were waiting for this moment, that you have just now sprung on them.

Catherine.

Oh, I made for an incredibly femme-y guy, and there was a resounding lack of surprise when I came out. But that isn't really what I meant. I just meant I never did anything pre-transition that I can't claim ownership of now. Like Boy Scouts or whatever. So I don't really have to avoid talking about much of anything or lie about much of anything. I just avoid talking about the really private stuff in my life, same as any other person.

Quote from: Dora on March 12, 2012, 06:47:36 PM
Sara7, What would you say if you become friends with a non-trans person and he or she asked: "Are you a transsexual?"

-IF- someone asks this, they are already 90%+ sure you are TS already or they wouldn't ask. It's like no one asks someone if they are pregnant unless they are fairly certain they are. And I don't know about you, but I don't ask the pregnant one after being wrong once .

I guess my position is: if I become friends with someone and they asked something like this, I am not going to lie to a friend. To me that is a bad place to start a friendship from. While I'm not going to tell casual friends stories about my being in the boy scouts, but I'm not going to make up stories about selling girl scout cookies either. Or joining in some conversation about how bad my periods are. IMHO there is a big difference between staying silent about certain parts of my past and making up lies to tell.

lol, yeah that's, like asking a pregnant woman, 'are you fat' ? or having a baby ? You really don't ASK, and really, neither should they ask you, if your TS. (of course people some times might do) if they are just complete morons and lack social grace. another example is like saying to a woman - 'are you a lesbian' ? hmm. My point is, people should realise where the boundaries are of where they should be allowed to ask such personal questions, and you certainly would never tell anyone you don't really know well. If you feel you have to tell some one, then don't let it be because your seeking their approval, and need to be accepted as a woman, no one needs to tell you who you are, if your not sure yourself, then maybe you should go through the transition yet.

Bottom line, is if they 'know' and ask you, then they really didn't need to ask in the first place, and are just being nosey to get some gossip on you so they can talk to their friends about you As soon as you reveal your real name to them, well there is the possibility they will start identifying you as that person more, than who you are now, assuming they think your some kind of fraud, a joke, or female impersonator. Its a kind of seeking validation of who they really think you are, and trying to put you in that role of who they think you 'really' are. Of course they will smile and say they totally understand, but really, we know they don't, and nor do they 'really ever' accept us as one of the girls properly again. Meaning you will also always feel like the phoney female in the group, and therefore outside of it. Still feeling outside of it, and 'different' and treated as such. That to me is not a transition to just living your life as a woman, its a failure to be recognised as a woman.

Besides all this, if some one has known you as 'Rebecca, or cindy' or what ever, for a long time, then they won't really need to know if your TS or not, they will just want to know you, for who you ARE.

Catherine.

Quote from: Dora on March 12, 2012, 06:47:36 PM
Sara7, What would you say if you become friends with a non-trans person and he or she asked: "Are you a transsexual?"

My answer to that has always been "does it matter?" And whole conversations have sprung up around the answer. Mostly about the personality and mindset about the person asking. Very enlightening.

With regard to the original post, I think that many things in one's past are tagged with an association of a life once lived. A life no longer wanted. And sometimes what's overlooked is the fact that were the person born into their correct gender, such things wouldn't be given a second thought. For example, I know several women who, if they talked about their past, one wouldn't automatically assume anything about them with regard to whether they're transsexual or not, merely that the things they did were very tomboyish things to do.

Hell I even know one woman who, when she was a kid, actually did join the boy scouts, but left when they found out she wasn't a boy. She had a wide circle of male friends and wanted to do the same thing as them so as not to feel excluded.

Sarah7 makes a good point, most of the things people do aren't gender specific, but we make them that way by the associations we give them to a former life and a person who no longer exists. A person who, for us, is very gender specific. People who don't know you wouldn't necessarily make those same associations. They don't feel what you feel, they have only an objective viewpoint. I think maybe sometimes we've developed a lot of defense mechanisms that mean we're constantly on our guard for things that might be... compromising. But this is sometimes tuned a little too sensitively.

Mostly I think that we search our souls so deeply to discover who we are, that we assume everyone else will search it just as deeply. And that simply isn't the case, in my experience.

Hmm I have thought about this myself and I decided where possible I just wouldnt mention a gender. For example in your situation I would simply say 'I was in the scouts'.

However to me when I was little  I was a boy. I was trapped in a girls body, but I was a boy none the less. So saying 'when I was a little boy' and so on to me is not lying at all its being truthful.

There are times I will lie to remain temporarily stealth, or to maintain my safety, or to simplify what I know is only a brief interaction anyway. Somebody asked me on the train if my kid's mom had run off. I said yeah. Honestly it was her biodad that ran off, but I didn't feel like outing myself to some guy I'll probably never see again.

I made the mistake once of saying something hurt "worse than childbirth," and I was in the girl scouts, and I do recognize the problem of having a history that you can't speak casually about. I'm not stealth really, but I also don't want to have a big discussion every time I mention my childhood. I tend to censor and edit a bit when speaking to people in everyday life.