Hullo, comrades! I've got a story to tell ye.

Today I was walking to work, wearing a denim jacket and a metal hoodie underneath, my newly dyed dark purple hair swaying in the wind. Earlier in the morning I got a message on my Tumblr about how much of a babe I was, and of course, being pre HRT, I smiled and dismissed it, as I have little confidence in my ability to pass. I figured "eh, no way, no one would say that IRL if they saw me...". That thought stayed in my mind all morning until I passed an older looking guy on the sidewalk who whistled at me. And I'm positive he was whistling at me, as there was no one else nearby. My concept of reality crumpled like tinfoil as I realized I not only pass decently well without HRT, but I had just been catcalled for the first time ever. Before I could even start feeling comfortable in my own skin, some creep turned it into a sexual object.

I'm now facing womanhood, complete with weird, strange looks and people treating me like I'm nothing more than eye candy. I wasn't socialized for this! And even if I was, it would still be creepy and annoying! Women shouldn't have to put up with this if they're uncomfortable with it! I recall a story Kate Bornstein wrote in Gender Outlaws, about how some guy would follow her to her car, rubbing his crotch going, "Wanna suck those tits, bitch." She froze like a deer in headlights. My situation wasn't nearly as scary, but it's along the same topic...

How have you folks dealt with this sort of thing early on in your transition? I mean, on one hand, it's good to know you're passing, on the other, it's pretty creepy (to me.) Don't get me wrong, some of you might enjoy such things, and that's fine by me, but yeah. This one's for the people out there who are/were as weirded out as I am.

I am staying in a hotel for this month and, I am unsure why, there are a lot of working class males staying here. I figure some company requires them for a job, or whatever. Anyway, everytime I go to the breakfast rooms I have some of these people turning their heads to look at me and they don't even try to be discret about it. Although I am passing, that is besides the point, because I know I pass without this. It is annoying to get this all the time.

One day one of them even sang when passing by me, some brazilian music with very sugestive lyrics.

I am ignoring them like they weren't there. First of all, I am passing, so I don't feel the need to fear TG hate, second, it is a hotel and there is always staff near. Now, if I knew I wans't protected, I wouldn't go anywhere near them.

Quote from: Beverley on March 13, 2012, 06:02:49 PM
I was not socialised for it either and all GGs have had to grow up with it and learn to deal with it. We do as well, this is part of the package deal of becoming female. I hope it happens again.... 

Beverley

As a feminist I believe that while yes, these things do happen and will happen again, we shouldn't have to deal with it. No one should have to deal with being objectified if they don't want to be. Our minds should be just as respected as our bodies, and when men behave like this, it's just another thing keeping us from being respected as equals in a gendered world. I don't want to accept it and grow complacent.

You just laugh to yourself and move on.  Letting it get to you doesn't hurt them, only you.

I think the point of the OP was not about being noticed or not. I like being noticed, when guys open doors for me, the works. There are certain situations though, where it can get past a certain comfort zone. There are certain times, guys are rude when they approach a woman, or are rude in the manner they express their admiration, such as grabbing their crotch and letting out a gutural sound.

Also, there are certain situations where it is not how individual males are acting, but the amount of individual males you are getting attention from. Aside from the improper song I heard, I didn't receive any other rude comment from the males here, but it is uncomfortable to walk into a room and be noticed by 8 males and have them check you out!

I feel it is annoying and I just ignore them. There is nothing else to be done about it

Quote from: Queen Erika on March 13, 2012, 06:19:18 PM
As a feminist I believe that while yes, these things do happen and will happen again, we shouldn't have to deal with it. No one should have to deal with being objectified if they don't want to be. Our minds should be just as respected as our bodies, and when men behave like this, it's just another thing keeping us from being respected as equals in a gendered world. I don't want to accept it and grow complacent.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist, but I am a realist or a cynic, and I am a strong believer in gender equality.
Fact is while these things shouldn't happen, they do, and I honestly doubt it will ever completely stop.

But I just want to throw it out there, things aren't all fine and dandy for the male side either.

I usually just ignore being hit on, it's apart of the reality of the world we live in and unfortunately that world includes a lot of sucky things. Sexual objectification not the worst of it.

But we are in the middle of a male degradation too. I see advertisements everywhere routinely portraying men as dumb, useless, better off if they just listen to their wifes and girlfriends. Stuff that in todays world would never be accepted if done with the genders reversed.

I don't mean or want to derail the topic. Just to put some new perspective into it. I don't think women are treated equally, I don't think men are either.

Quote from: Beverley on March 13, 2012, 06:37:13 PM
Most men like to notice women and most women like to be noticed. You are fighting against our biological programming.

I understand where you're coming from on that, but I'm not 100% sure it's "biological programming". That seems a bit deterministic. Sure, testosterone can make you extra horny and therefore you "look" for more women, but that can have roots in culture too, where men are the ones who are typically expected to find mates and ask girls out; It's a pretty rigid "butch" and "femme" labelling system that's all over media and art etc.

That said, maybe I'll feel less crazed by this whole thing once I actually start HRT

And yeah, my main point is that while attention is often good, too much attention or the wrong kind of attention can be harmful.

I'm sorry, I don't see what's so new about this?

After you probably spent your whole life being objectified as a male ("lift this for me", "open this jar", "fix this ____"), getting catcalled once means it's time to fly the feminist flag?

People suck, that's all there is to it imo  it's not a woman-only issue. Not that those pushy come-ons are good but it's just life.

Btw, the example you gave with Kate Bornstein was legitimate harassment and you have to draw a line between harassment and just rude-seeming woo-hoos. It's a different type of thing.

Quote from: pretty on March 14, 2012, 01:56:15 AM
I'm sorry, I don't see what's so new about this?

After you probably spent your whole life being objectified as a male ("lift this for me", "open this jar", "fix this ____"), getting catcalled once means it's time to fly the feminist flag?

People suck, that's all there is to it imo  it's not a woman-only issue. Not that those pushy come-ons are good but it's just life.

Btw, the example you gave with Kate Bornstein was legitimate harassment and you have to draw a line between harassment and just rude-seeming woo-hoos. It's a different type of thing.

I agree with this.
Except i think it was hilarious what happened to Kate Bornstein.
I most likely would have burst out in laughter, what an absolutely terrible way to hit on someone, it's laughable.

Worst chat line I have ever had. A guy came up to me in a bar and said 'If I buy you a drink can we have sex?' If that is how guys think, then the species is terminal .

He thought is was normal!!!

Firstly I'm sorry to hear about your experience op. I don't think that any woman should have to put up with any form of unwanted sexual attention (which cat calling is). Men are not "biologically" predisposed towards treating women as objects and pushing that view actually limits men's sexuality as well as women's. I find it a shame that we have people here telling the OP that this should be considered normal. It isn't.

I find the best thing to do when anything like that happens is to talk to your girlfriends about it and they will have had similar experiences and will most likely give you a hug and make you fell better.

 When I was living a male lifestyle, I had been objectified as a man a total of once, to my memory. I was never asked to open anything, fix anything, and I never really enjoyed the cool male privileges like people valuing my input, taking me more seriously, and stuff like that. That one time was a guy advising me to think with my penis, a comment I giggled at at the time.

On the other hand, I have heard a catcall once, but haven't experienced much, if any, objectification as a woman either. I have men politely telling me that I'm beautiful every now and then, so I guess that's as objectifying as Canada gets... but it isn't very extreme, though it is often.

Maybe it's attitude. I like to think I'm the cute and silly type, with a little punk and sass mixed in. Perhaps people respect me because I present myself as someone who is strong, as opposed to conforming to an image of being weaker.

Or perhaps it's location. After all, Canada is a pretty cool place.

This isn't necessarily even to do with passing, so much as with conditioning. I've noticed male friends of mine are inclined to treat me differently since they found out I was transitioning - arm round the shoulder, calling me dear, door opening, all that kind of malarkey - and I'm definitely not "passing". It's just what a lot of men are conditioned from a young age to do in the presence of women - and it's really weird suddenly to be on the receiving end of it.

As for the flirting and trying it on and all that side of things, this isn't "men", it's "straight men" .

Eh, I guess I got used to being seen that way as a gay bottom... at first it was definitely kind of hard to get used to being looked at in a less dominant way and being the target of guys attention / advances... but... eventually it stops bothering you.

I also was used to being seen in the "strong male" type of way. Where I would be asked to do more physical things (like moving heavy objects)... but I had no problem with that! I actually enjoyed having a nice body and being in great shape with a good amount of strength (and enjoyed showing it off).

And now it is a complete turn-around ... people never expect anything like that anymore Kind of funny how life is sometimes haha.

Just relax and enjoy it

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on March 14, 2012, 04:42:49 AM
Maybe it's attitude. I like to think I'm the cute and silly type, with a little punk and sass mixed in. Perhaps people respect me because I present myself as someone who is strong, as opposed to conforming to an image of being weaker.

Or perhaps it's location. After all, Canada is a pretty cool place.

Agreed on Canada part and it can be a factor (I don't hear.. well, any catcalls in Finland, people just keep their eyes peeled). :p But, alas, I'm going to go with punk and sass mixed in with your style to work just around everywhere. "Normal" men don't exactly like punkstuff that much that they would go catcalling after you. It's not much at any standards, but I have a feeling that it's those "normal"-type (those on fashionmagazines) are the type that gets most calls, because it's what typical men want.

When we get out from the main mainstream, some of the jerks drop out, reducing catcalling. Further you move, the less you get. And the more you get in polite way. At least that's what I think, I haven't done any studies on the matter. And it could be just Finland that has general men who don't really go well into punkish style and attitude. :p

Then, imagining myself in the situation, I'd probably like it for the first few times (now that's a pass! :p), but it would get uncomfortable in the long run.

I love being hit on. It reassures me that I look good, hehe. No one has ever crossed the line though IRL, only in chats. Some guys online can be total creeps.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on March 14, 2012, 08:35:21 AM
I love being hit on. It reassures me that I look good, hehe. No one has ever crossed the line though IRL, only in chats. Some guys online can be total creeps.

+1
except no one hits on me lol
BUT IF THEY DID!... then I would say I agree.

whatever..stop lying :p

It was a bizarre scenario the first few times that men treated me with extra...attention?  No cat-calls, but overly helpful and sending out that "giddy" vibe and all smiles.  The first man that treated me in such a fashion was a clerk at a Smashburger.  When he learned it was our first time there, he ran around the counter with a menu, got really close to me(not my girl_friend), leaned in, and started explaining the menu.  I didn't know what to do except play the flattered female role.  When he got around to his side of the counter, and I ordered and handed him my credit card, he asked to see my license because the back wasn't signed.  I handed him my license - which had male pic, male name, and male sex on it.  The vibes quickly died.

I've gotten used to what little attention I get from men.  The stares are bizarre.  I tend to feel complimented, unless it's some guy that sends off the creeper impression - like, "would you feel attracted to anything that had boobs?"  Then it's not so much of a compliment toward me personally.

I don't mind the objectification because I don't have to deal with this person on a regular basis - if I did, I would politely ask them to stop.

Ah yes, the stares! It can be very disconcerting. I sometimes think "why are so many guys staring at me?", but it's just what guys do.
When I'm walking around town I try to avoid eye contact with males so I don't see the stares.