It'll get better.
In order to even reach crude resources in our surrounding space, we have to develop technology that surpasses a need for those resources.

Basically, by the time we're capable of reliably setting up a freight route from the asteroid belt near Mars, to Mars, to Earth, we'll be using clean propulsion technology that has no use for what we consider fuel today.

Which makes getting the materials seem kind of pointless, when we can pretty much recycle most everything we have right here on Earth.

So what's left to fuss over?  I think we can all agree that there's plenty of room in the universe for everyone, and in the event that we do discover other forms of sentient life within the next few centuries...  well, what would unite mankind faster?  Talk about a wakeup call.

~ Blair

Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on.  rant over.

Katia if you think that "taking pictures of naked men on the floor" is all that we have done you are sadly and sickengly mistaken and that indifference and/or ignorance is a part of the problem. UNICEF is currently investigating child rapes that took place at Abu Graib (there is video footage) and that's just a small example.
You cannot justify what we do with how their government was nor how their civilians have responded to our invasion and continued occupation of THEIR country.
The entire Iraq war is based on a lie sold to the American people by the White House Iraqi Group (made up of more than 50% of PNAC members btw) and by this administration itself.

Rant away Katia, but you need to get your facts straight. And turn your wish for understanding on yourself.

i don't know if you've noticed, but the reason keeps changing.  ask [yourself], if it was about securing resources and that is a legitimate reason to fight a war, as some people do think it is i will admit, then why would bush [lie and claim] it was about wmds, getting rid of a dictator, or fighting terrorism?
i think the biggest reason for fighting the war is to [divert] taxpayer funds to united defense, halliburton, and other defense contractors and military suppliers, and [make money off of the stocks as they grow]. if they are trying to secure resources, it is only to aide in continuing our dependence on oil, foreign or domestic, by making it [feasible] not to come up with new technology just a little bit longer, so oil companies can continue to make more money before they have to invest in new technology to continue making money on transportation.  there are a number of people in the iraqi government who are saying they want to privatize oil, even though it would be against the new iraqi constitution, and get [help] from the american and international corporations to get it out of the ground. i used to think it was about putting a major oil producer in turmoil to raise the price of existing oil sources, in the u.s. and saudi arabia principally, but now i think the long-term plan actually does involve securing iraqi oil for the u.s   this is why they're backing the shiites more than the sunnis, because they think maybe they can beat them, and why they are uninterested in whatever turmoil the nation keeps facing as long as they can keep the oil fields safe. 

Ah hell! Who's John Galt?

-- Brede

To me, dropping a so-called "smart bomb" from 50,000 feet to a target where there will be "some" collateral damage is a crime. 

A couple I know, good friends of mine, are U.S. patriotic and military to the core.  Every generation in their family has served and I can see their point of being proud and patriotic.  However, I did ask them once, "what if you were an Iraqui couple and a bomb killed your husband or wife?  How would you feel about that American bomber pilot who dropped the bomb?  Would you understand that, while tragic, it was intended to be "for Iraquis' better good?"  If you had limited education and your husband, your wife, your son or your daughter was killed, would you understand that "these things happen?"

Or would you look to America and ask, "why did you kill the love of my life?"

America, as stated in Wendy's post, would earn far more friends with toys and candy bars.  The cost of one "smart bomb" could pay for a LOT of Iraqui jobs.  When you earn money and have a stake (and steak) in society, you have more of an interest in peace and cooperation.

Teri Anne

Quote from: togetherwecan on March 29, 2007, 11:44:22 PM
War on Terror

War on Afganistan

War on Iraq

and the imminent War on Iran


When does this end? When do the American people rise as one and say "NO!!!"?

This land IS our land. So? Why do we continue in our complacency to allow this land to be gripped by hands washed in the blood of America's children while their pockets are full of American's dreams?

Does an election in a year and a half ease your fear of more loss; whether that loss is financial, spiritual, or life? I can't sit idly by waiting another year and a half. I fear for the lives of all every day that this adminstration reigns its terror over the American People.

Hey TWC, you know me and my philosophies and theories.

I know you know better and this only goes to show how ingrained it is in all of us, but the acceptance of the idea of perpetual war began with the Drug War. We accept War upon our very own citizens who suffer from the HEALTH issue of drug addiction.

Prohibition never worked. It still doesn't. War is in our own streets and we do nothing to stop it. Ask these cops. They know and speak the truth. http://www.leap.cc.

The American government seems to enjoy war. When it is being waged in someone elses street, all the better.

Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on.  rant over.

Let me see. Have you been to http://www.liveleak.com and actually watched our troops?

I have been watching for years. I don't really think indiscriminate driveby shootings into villages whlie laughing, shooting dogs, cursing and swearing at innocent Iraqi children, is very professional. I have been watching. Some of these troops are ignorant enough to film themselves. The stuff OUR media won't show. I am not impressed with our troops and the situation we have put them in. Watch the reality of the situation on liveleak. Screw our media. They are pathetic lapdogs, mostly. Deballed, and defanged. They don't show HALF the real stuff.

People need to put thier money where there mouth is. You like war? Think it's worth it? WATCH it then. WATCH what you support and THEN tell me about how great all these REAL bloody body parts flying around are. If you can watch the real blood and guts and still support the war then I've got a most excellent link for ya. http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp

Go for it. They need ya. Backdoor drafts and all that. Go fight for my freedom. Come on, go bleed and get mangled for me. lol. I am so worried that we are all gonna be speaking Iraqi. <sarcasm>

Quote from: Wendy on April 02, 2007, 10:21:29 PM

I have little sympathy for a religious extremist that kills themself and innocent people.

W

But have you ever asked yourself what motivates them to willingly perform such desperate and despicable acts?
Yes, Yes I know: they are pushed to it by evil preachers. But still how is it that they are receptive to such warped ideology?
Would it be a lack of education? In some case that could be true, but what about the home-grown ones in Europe or America? They were educated in the Western-way, so what made them reject its values?

Would it be the lack of ideals in a dominant culture based on institutionalised and individual greed, rampant consumerism and wastefulness? A social order where a few squander the world resources when the rest of humankind try to survive on the crumbs that fall-of the table? Would it be the rejection of a social, economical and political system hell-bent on the worldwide globalisation of the capitalistic and imperialistic goals of unlimited growth and profits at any-cost?
Worldwide, everyday at prayer, Muslims turn towards Mecca and physically prostate themselves in front of God. So why should they be expected to prostate themselves in front of the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen or the Pound?

Would it have to do with the total disregard and denial from a dominant Judeo-Christian culture of any alternative views, values or inputs?
In its hay-days Islam was the most advanced and open system of belief and understanding. Islamic thinkers, scholars, artists and craftsmen contributed so much to the advancement of mathematics, philosophy, anatomy, astronomy, medicine, chemistry, architecture, engineering, metallurgy etc... At the time of the Calipha, in a truly inclusive and pluralist society, Jews, Christians and Muslims (the People of the Book) lived, worked and studied together. In contrast the Inquisition was all about the monolithic control of mind and ideas, its main aim was the elimination of any critical research and analyses. The Crusades had nothing to do with liberating the tomb of Christ, but all to do with the attempt to take over and control the trade routes to the Orient and its riches in Gems, Silk, Porcelaine, Spices and Pearls.

Of course it would take a lot of courage, humility, sacrifice and commitment to undo the injustice, heal the wrongs, and remove the causes of so much hurt, anger and despair. But no, it is so much easier to dismiss and demonise the others. It is so much easier to curtail their rights, to silence their voices and to enact emergency legislations all in the name of democracy (?!). Will we ever learn?

Having vented my spleen, it is now time to come down from the soap-box.

Hope, Light, Love & Respect

Maebh

Quote from: Maebh on April 11, 2007, 12:19:21 PM
But have you ever asked yourself what motivates them to willingly perform such desperate and despicable acts?

Would it be the lack of ideals in a dominant culture based on institutionalised and individual greed, rampant consumerism and wastefulness? A social order where a few squander the world resources when the rest of humankind try to survive on the crumbs that fall-of the table? Would it be the rejection of a social, economical and political system hell-bent on the worldwide globalisation of the capitalistic and imperialistic goals of unlimited growth and profits at any-cost?
Worldwide, everyday at prayer, Muslims turn towards Mecca and physically prostate themselves in front of God. So why should they be expected to prostate themselves in front of the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen or the Pound?

The U.S. system of capitalism clearly garners profits at any cost.  The U.S. "conflict"/War with Iraq is also an economic war to secure oil for continued expansion. 

The original manuscripts for Muslims, Jews, and Christians were founded on being good and you shall be rewarded.  It is not to kill each other.

I happen to have a number of both Hindu friends from India and Muslim friends from  Pakistan.   The world is sheltered from hearing the fanatic acts of their respective religious leaders.  The acts they have told me during their civil war were barbaric.  I believe that each country would be willing to take tremendous casualties if it felt it could over power the other.  At one time India was the seat of high culture and it no longer occupies that place.  However Muslims have blown up apartment buildings several times in India and this does not even make news in the U.S.  I still see power hungry religious leaders inciting their flock.  I do not condone the "all righteous" U.S. and I do not condone martyrs that cowardly kill themselves and innocent people.  Unless events turn for the better the Middle East will be more unstable when the U.S. leaves.

Quote from: Brooke NY on April 11, 2007, 09:40:31 AM

Quote from: togetherwecan on March 29, 2007, 11:44:22 PM
War on Terror

War on Afganistan

War on Iraq

and the imminent War on Iran


When does this end? When do the American people rise as one and say "NO!!!"?

This land IS our land. So? Why do we continue in our complacency to allow this land to be gripped by hands washed in the blood of America's children while their pockets are full of American's dreams?

Does an election in a year and a half ease your fear of more loss; whether that loss is financial, spiritual, or life? I can't sit idly by waiting another year and a half. I fear for the lives of all every day that this adminstration reigns its terror over the American People.

Hey TWC, you know me and my philosophies and theories.

I know you know better and this only goes to show how ingrained it is in all of us, but the acceptance of the idea of perpetual war began with the Drug War. We accept War upon our very own citizens who suffer from the HEALTH issue of drug addiction.

Prohibition never worked. It still doesn't. War is in our own streets and we do nothing to stop it. Ask these cops. They know and speak the truth. http://www.leap.cc.

The American government seems to enjoy war. When it is being waged in someone elses street, all the better.

Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on.  rant over.

Let me see. Have you been to http://www.liveleak.com and actually watched our troops?

I have been watching for years. I don't really think indiscriminate driveby shootings into villages whlie laughing, shooting dogs, cursing and swearing at innocent Iraqi children, is very professional. I have been watching. Some of these troops are ignorant enough to film themselves. The stuff OUR media won't show. I am not impressed with our troops and the situation we have put them in. Watch the reality of the situation on liveleak. Screw our media. They are pathetic lapdogs, mostly. Deballed, and defanged. They don't show HALF the real stuff.

People need to put thier money where there mouth is. You like war? Think it's worth it? WATCH it then. WATCH what you support and THEN tell me about how great all these REAL bloody body parts flying around are. If you can watch the real blood and guts and still support the war then I've got a most excellent link for ya. http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp

Go for it. They need ya. Backdoor drafts and all that. Go fight for my freedom. Come on, go bleed and get mangled for me. lol. I am so worried that we are all gonna be speaking Iraqi. <sarcasm>

Wooooo Hoooooo Brooke is on a rant, Brooke is on a rant....I love her when she's like this ROWR! >

*TWC Bows down to Brooke*
All so very true Brooke.
I get sickened by those that spout inanities with no intelligent or honest background for their words and beliefs. Lockstep, hut-two-three-four...oh wait! It's time for the *two-minute hate*....

How can one assume and/or accept anything without actually finding the facts that support it? What is respectable or patriotic about that? Shall we all devolve into scared lil minions of the US Government? Will they call us Patriotic then?

When will the rest of our brothers and sisters in America see the light of truth and stand tall to what freedom is really all about instead of swallow the color coded make believe fear mongering BS the Administration and the MSM spoonfeeds the populace? When do people start paying attention and connecting the dots that are there? When do the American people stand up and take ther country back by the sheer act of INFORMING AND EDUCATING THEMSELVES?

BTW, Ignorance may be bliss, but ignorance is NOT accountable in a court of law