Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

Respect for all.

Started by Tracey, April 05, 2012, 06:34:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Devlyn

This is a support site. Anyone, transgendered or not is supposed to feel welcome here. Why then do so many members feel free to speak of men in dresses, Drag Queens, and Drag Kings like circus freaks? Why is it allowed? Ask yourself before you post "As a member of this support site, should I really be saying this?" Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

shortNsweet

Quote from: Devlyn on April 05, 2012, 06:34:49 PM
This is a support site. Anyone, transgendered or not is supposed to feel welcome here. Why then do so many members feel free to speak of men in dresses, Drag Queens, and Drag Kings like circus freaks? Why is it allowed? Ask yourself before you post "As a member of this support site, should I really be saying this?" Hugs, Devlyn

I think this is good advice in all aspects of life, not just here on the forums.

It's ok to have a conversation. But you can't be condescending about it.
  •  

Felix

Yes. Disagreement or lack of understanding doesn't need to be expressed through disrespect, especially in the very place people come to safely be themselves.
everybody's house is haunted
  •  

pretty

I think a lot of the condescension is created by interpretation on the receiving end, even if it wasn't intended.

For example, the taboo " ->-bleeped-<-" word. There are actually people who self-identify as  ->-bleeped-<-cs. But if you say the word for any reason even if you're not talking about anyone specific, or even if you're talking about a person who actually identifies as an  ->-bleeped-<-c, people freak out and call you elitist and hateful because the existence of  ->-bleeped-<- bugs them.

A lot of people here get easily offended for a lot of reasons that may have not even been intended to offend.

I don't think those groups are talked about like circus freaks that often? I see people say here all the time that there's nothing wrong with being a DQ or DK.
  •  

Devlyn

"Hi, I'm looking for tips. I want to look my best." or "Hi, I'm looking for tips. I don't want to look like some dude in a dress." Don't they both say the same thing? Isn't one hurtful to some people? Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

tekla

I always thought that respect is earned not just granted.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Jeneva

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
I always thought that respect is earned not just granted.
Respect is earned, but so should disrespect have to be earned.  Don't be so hostile/mean is more what I think Devyln is trying to say.  A neutral statement is usually no harder and often even more useful to get feedback.
Blessed Be!

Jeneva Caroline Samples
  •  

Devlyn

Actually, I thought it was pretty obvious that I'm not happy with the elitism creeping into the forums again. The Staff enforces the rules, but we the members set the tone. The guidelines say we should welcome everyone. Not rate them on the "trans" scale. Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

MacKenzie

Quote from: Devlyn on April 05, 2012, 06:34:49 PM
This is a support site. Anyone, transgendered or not is supposed to feel welcome here. Why then do so many members feel free to speak of men in dresses, Drag Queens, and Drag Kings like circus freaks? Why is it allowed? Ask yourself before you post "As a member of this support site, should I really be saying this?" Hugs, Devlyn

  Nobody has a problem with drag queens/drag kings, we (trans women) just don't want to look like obvious man in a dress, that's not hard to understand is it? I'm pretty sure this thread is in response to Rubberneck's thread in the MTF section that got locked and in it I even suggested we make a drag queen section for the forums.

  I can understand a statement like that causing some controversy in the crossdressers section or (if we had one) in the drag queen section but it was in the MTF section and i'm pretty sure that no mtf's want to look like a "man in a dress" but that doesn't mean we have a problem with other non-ts looking like that.

  I think you took out of context the opinions stated in that thread. I apologize if my opinions offended you.  :P
  •  

Arch

To me, there's a big difference between politeness and respect. I treat people politely until they give me a reason not to, but I don't respect them unless they give me a reason TO respect them. I express politeness outwardly and respect/disrespect both inwardly and outwardly, depending on the situation.

But I know what you mean.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
  •  

Devlyn

MacKenzie, I'm happy to be me. I look like an obvious man in a dress though, don't I? A lot of people aren't hung up on looks. The concept of Susans is that all are welcome, not just those who pass well, or aspire to. Some here use "man in a dress" like a weapon. Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

Sephirah

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
I always thought that respect is earned not just granted.

This is true, but in the context of the thread, I'm inclined to believe it's more about being sensitive to the effect your words and opinions could have on the people who read them; taking into account the type of site this is, its primary purpose, and people who frequent it.

In that regard, I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility for a bit of forethought before hitting the post button. There are ways of saying things and ways of saying things, both to get the same message across. Granted some people seem to revel in getting a rise out of others, and know full well what they're doing by being tactless and as blunt as a sledgehammer. This is usually pretty obvious.

Nontheless, generally speaking I think it's helpful to show a degree of empathy and sensitivity towards fellow forum members, regardless of the subject matter. After all, wouldn't we want the same thing for ourselves?
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
  •  

MacKenzie

Quote from: Devlyn on April 06, 2012, 07:36:11 PM
MacKenzie, I'm happy to be me. I look like an obvious man in a dress though, don't I? A lot of people aren't hung up on looks. The concept of Susans is that all are welcome, not just those who pass well, or aspire to. Some here use "man in a dress" like a weapon. Hugs, Devlyn

  I'm glad you're happy to be yourself Devlyn, accepting yourself is important to be truly happy in life.

QuoteI look like an obvious man in a dress though, don't I?

  I don't know what you look like body wise but from your avatar i wouldn't think so lol.  =P

QuoteA lot of people aren't hung up on looks.

  Yeah but alot of us do take pride in our looks so please respect that, it works both ways.

  xo
  •  

Devlyn

@ Sephirah, beautiful avatar tonight, hon! @ MacKenzie, if you feel I've been disrespectful, report me to the Staff. The button is right there. If you feel that I pass, get your eyes examined. If you think passing matters to me, get your head examined. Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

MacKenzie

Quote from: Devlyn on April 06, 2012, 08:56:50 PM
@ Mackenzie, if you feel I've been disrespectful, report me to the Staff. The button is right there. If you feel that I pass, get your eyes examined. If you think passing matters to me, get your head examined. Hugs, Devlyn

Ok that was just plain rude.   :eusa_hand:
  •  

Constance

 :police:

Okay, folks, let's try to be at least polite if we can't be respectful.

This is a support site, so let's be supportive.

Felix

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
I always thought that respect is earned not just granted.
I don't agree with this. Respecting one another is an important part of being decent human beings and having a functional society.
everybody's house is haunted
  •  

tekla

I think that being polite is important for a high functioning society, but politeness and manners are personal (internal).  It's your own behavior that controls them.  Respecting others  is a judgement however, a very high one and something that requires discrimination about the behaviors, thoughts, and attitudes of others (external). 

Respect all is a lot like 'everyone's a winner' when in fact, that policy tends to be used most on people who never win.  People who demand respect frequently need to demand it because without acquiescence to their demands they would never get any at all.  Most of all, people who respect themselves rarely - if ever - require the respect of others.  It's something that if you have it internally there is no need for it externally.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Felix

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2012, 12:39:03 AM
I think that being polite is important for a high functioning society, but politeness and manners are personal (internal).  It's your own behavior that controls them.  Respecting others  is a judgement however, a very high one and something that requires discrimination about the behaviors, thoughts, and attitudes of others (external). 

Respect all is a lot like 'everyone's a winner' when in fact, that policy tends to be used most on people who never win.  People who demand respect frequently need to demand it because without acquiescence to their demands they would never get any at all.  Most of all, people who respect themselves rarely - if ever - require the respect of others.  It's something that if you have it internally there is no need for it externally.
I dunno. I'm often not good at being polite and I've certainly never been mistaken for someone with manners, but I do try to have respect for everyone. I think as a species we're pretty interesting and as individuals tend to be equally deserving of positive regard. Usually. We might be just using different words for the same concepts, though.
everybody's house is haunted
  •  

spacial

This is one of those issues that I have also thought about.

If I relate it to others here, some of the language does seem rather blunt at times. I think I tried to raise it on a few occasions, possibly by thinking about the issues differently.

It was when I began to relate it to myself that it took on a rather different perspective.

The term guy in a dress is a presumption that a male is wearing a dress. But why should any male feel he can't?

We can think of George Cloony in a dress, for example. Or Sylvester Stallone. Our image is of these very male people, wearing women's clothes. But try to imagine, these men, or any other particularly male men wearing clothes that are simply different from the norm?

A good place to start is a kilt. Though it does tend to be associated with other notions of male assertiveness, beard for example.

Can I express who I am in my appearance? Can our society progress to the point where we can, express ourselves, with our appearance, without seeming to look as if we are faking or charactureing?

Many of us will remember a time when long hair on a man was an automatic indication of effiminacy. Yet short hair on a man was a military necessity, not a social one. One look at paintings of the American Founding Fathers, shows up a lot of long hair.

I've never heard of George Washington or Ben Franklin being referred to as drag queens.
  •