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Should Stealth Posters Recuse Themselves?

Started by Shantel, April 15, 2012, 10:45:32 AM

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Jamie D

Quote from: Beverley on April 15, 2012, 03:52:22 PM
I did have a picture of myself as an avatar and now I do not.

Where does that leave me?

Somewhere Over The Rainbow??
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Beverley

I am beginning to feel like I need a checklist to get around on these forums - what I can say on this thread, what attributes I need to post on that thread.

Maybe a new feature should be a 'Trans passport'  to score my suitability for anything I want to do here?
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Shantel

Quote from: Jamie D on April 15, 2012, 04:52:13 PM
Somewhere Over The Rainbow??

With Dorothy and the munchkins?
But we already know that you have a brain a heart and courage Jamie D!  ;)
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tekla

I think it's a bit disconcerting to see someone who hides behind an avatar rather than posting their own photo, is so old they have gray hair and have to wear glasses comment on the looks of someone who is earnestly looking for approval as passablea lot younger and more in tune with what's going on in the real world and not at the AARP site.  Do when even know when the last time those eyes were checked or the prescription updated?  Do we need the Mrs. Magoo opinion on passing: "Oh my, that is a pretty big dog you have there." 



No less valid.





No more either.


FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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MacKenzie

Quote from: pretty on April 15, 2012, 11:23:41 AM
You post in the pass thread because you want an opinion. Can't be too picky about it when you actually get it. And telling someone they pass when they don't, which a lot of people do, is only disingenuous and it is setting them up for disappointment.  ;)

Maybe a disclaimer would be appropriate. It's not like people are posting mean-spirited things all the time. Personally, I aim to give honest, constructive criticism  :)

About showing yourself: there's a lot of reasons people don't want to post pictures around here. Especially pictures as their avatar.

First of all, google indexes all the pictures on this site and you could end up associating your mug with pretty much any trans-related search word. And plus, I just don't really want to see myself every time I scroll down a page here.

Secondly, frankly some people are creepy about the pictures you post here  :-\. They hit on you or make vaguely sexual comments. I'd rather not be hit on just while browsing susan's. And in the first place not everyone is a lesbian. But just because, like, I don't make a pic of myself my avatar doesn't mean I haven't shown what I look like before.

  This so much^

  I don't like those "do i pass?" threads anyway, they give people false hope. It takes alot more then a photo to prove you pass, anyone can pass in a photo with the right lightning and proper camera angle.

  I had some photo's on here but I took them down. Honestly I don't want my picture on a trans site anyway lol. I don't have anything to prove and I don't need a confidence boost either. I passed in boy clothes no makeup before I went full-time which was just recently btw so it's not a big deal to me.  :) 

 
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Shantel

Quote from: Beverley on April 15, 2012, 05:03:18 PM
I am beginning to feel like I need a checklist to get around on these forums - what I can say on this thread, what attributes I need to post on that thread.

Maybe a new feature should be a 'Trans passport'  to score my suitability for anything I want to do here?

Relax Beverley, you're a nice person and we all know that! I'm simply referring to those who for some reason are unable to comment on whether or not someone passes in a reasonably warm and civil manner rather than cutting them down and hurting their feelings.
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Shantel

Quote from: tekla on April 15, 2012, 05:08:38 PM
I think it's a bit disconcerting to see someone who hides behind an avatar rather than posting their own photo, is so old they have gray hair and have to wear glasses comment on the looks of someone who is earnestly looking for approval as passablea lot younger and more in tune with what's going on in the real world and not at the AARP site.  Do when even know when the last time those eyes were checked or the prescription updated?  Do we need the Mrs. Magoo opinion on passing: "Oh my, that is a pretty big dog you have there." 


There, I rest my case!

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Jamie D

#27
Quote from: Shantel on April 15, 2012, 05:06:46 PM
With Dorothy and the munchkins?
But we already know that you have a brain a heart and courage Jamie D!  ;)

Maybe so, but I'd rather look like Dorothy that the Wicked Witch.
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Jamie D

Quote from: Beverley on April 15, 2012, 05:03:18 PM
I am beginning to feel like I need a checklist to get around on these forums - what I can say on this thread, what attributes I need to post on that thread.

Maybe a new feature should be a 'Trans passport'  to score my suitability for anything I want to do here?

Bev, you're a celebrity.  You can bypass customs any time you want!
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Keroppi

The orginal post immediately reminds me this. :eusa_doh:

While I'm sure you have the best of intention. I just don't think you're right. :eusa_naughty:
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V M

It's very simple really, disqualifying someone from posting their opinion in a thread based on whether they use a real pic. of themselves or an avatar as their avatar would violate a portion of ToS Rule #10

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Ashley_C

Quote from: Keroppi on April 15, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
The orginal post immediately reminds me this. :eusa_doh:

While I'm sure you have the best of intention. I just don't think you're right. :eusa_naughty:

Hilarious and true.
We must move forward... not backwards, not to the side, not forwards, but always whirling, whirling, whirling towards freedom.

My mindless babbling are my own opinions and nothing more.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Shantel on April 15, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
In Reference To Do I Pass Threads
I think it's a bit disconcerting to see someone who hides behind an avatar rather than posting their own photo, can comment on the looks of someone who is earnestly looking for approval as passable. It seems a bit disingenuous and unfair how some seem to have no concerns about trampling all over another person's self-esteem or lack of it, just to be some sort of self appointed expert on what works and what doesn't. One woman here was so crushed that I thought she was about to harm herself.

The world isn't fair. and some people really don't pass.

If someone posts their pictures, and asks the public forum for an honest opinion of their passability. From me at least, I will give them one. I don't want to hurt them, honestly I don't, and because of that I usually just refrain from posting all together if I don't have anything positive to say. But I won't lie to them. I wouldn't want to be lied too in their position so I won't say something I don't think is true.

I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with me posting my pictures or not. I elect not too for personal security. I think it's a bad idea. But once someone else has done it I might as well give them the truth, if I believe that's what they honestly want.

It would be a lot easier if everyone passed and was happy, but that's not the way of the world, the world sucks, life sucks, and all that teen angst stuff.

Do you honestly think people would be better off if we only gave compliments? I agree we should be tactful, respectful of others feelings, and careful in what we say. But outright dishonesty I fail to see how it helps them. But then I'm not a believer that passing is about confidence.
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MacKenzie

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on April 15, 2012, 08:57:54 PM
Do you honestly think people would be better off if we only gave compliments? I agree we should be tactful, respectful of others feelings, and careful in what we say. But outright dishonesty I fail to see how it helps them. But then I'm not a believer that passing is about confidence.

  Agreed.

  Telling people they pass when they obviously don't is just setting that person up to fail. I really don't think we should even have those two pass threads. Look if you really want to know if you pass go out in front of cisgender people and if they don't laugh and give you weird looks then you passed if not then ask what gave you away so you can improve yourself if possible.

  Trans people judging other trans people on their looks is probably the worst idea ever lol. 
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Stealthy

(100th post~)

I post on the 'do I pass' thread critiquing people, yet there's only one picture of 'myself' on the whole site. Due to a whole bunch of different factors, transsexuality being just one of them, I barely identify with my body at all. I would draw how the actual me looks, but I can't draw.
Pronouns: shi/hir

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AbraCadabra

Quote from: Shantel on April 15, 2012, 11:21:46 AM
I suppose that you are quite right about all aspects. I don't pass most of the time and to be honest it isn't all that important to me anyway. And like you I'm opinionated and known to be confrontational at times, suppose all that comes with age and experience! Just the same I get upset for the younger ones here whose feelings get crushed. We all have some sort of mental problems if we're honest, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing a counselor for gender dysphoria because we'd have all the answers. I concern myself about those that take criticism to heart and wind up harming themselves because of it.

Hug, I do like what you say :)
I am with you on your points made.
So let's see what else gives. Eh?

I actually started having opinions from the day I gave-up mother's milk...
At that stage mostly on food though, as in what I like and what I don't like :)

Note: not ONE opinion posted here, other then yours and mine, is sporting a real life avatar... makes you think, doesn't it?
Must be I'm a beauty queen of old - or surrounded by some VERY shy folks?
Of course all those other reasons not to forget...

Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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kelly_aus

I've posted a few pics in those threads, just to see what kinds of replies I get.. I don't really know why I bother though.. I don't get laughed at or funny looks in public.. Cis gendered people interact with me as if I am a woman.. In short, to cis gendered people I pass.. And I know some of you are going to suggest that a lot of it is just people being too polite to say anything.. I doubt it, society seems to be programmed to make fun of 'different' people..

As far as whether people without pics should comment? I say feel free, I post pics because I want to.. I don't care if someone works out my past.. But if you don't post pics, I'm sure you have a reason for doing so, it doesn't make your opinion any less valid..
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on April 15, 2012, 09:50:41 PM
Hug, I do like what you say :)
I am with you on your points made.
So let's see what else gives. Eh?

I actually started having opinions from the day I gave-up mother's milk...
At that stage mostly on food though, as in what I like and what I don't like :)

Note: not ONE opinion posted here, other then yours and mine, is sporting a real life avatar... makes you think, doesn't it?
Must be I'm a beauty queen of old - or surrounded by some VERY shy folks?
Of course all those other reasons not to forget...

Axélle

Or maybe the rest of us are more security conscious.

I don't post pictures of myself here, or anywhere else online, I don't even have a facebook page.

I've been on the internet socially for most of my life. I know how much trouble a dedicated person can make for you just through the internet. Hell I've been on the other side of it once or twice.

Compartmentalization and need to know, it's the name of the game, I'm sure it all sounds paranoid and crazy, but I don't want to be one of those victims who naively say "it could happen to you too" to justify how big of a target they made themselves.
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grrl1nside

I don't put pics on at this time for safety reasons. I live in a small community that while some of the population would be great, others would not. There was a local fundraiser for the women's shelter that involved cross-dressing and there were death threats against the staff, contestants, etc. I also work in a very visible role in the community which works with at-risk clientelle who often have violent criminal histories, substance abuse, and mental health issues so I'm not so bold at this point as to put my picture up although it has been tempting to put it up and remove it within 24 hours or something.

I try not to flame anyone, but I have been surprised a few times. Sometimes the smallest thing can be become large for someone. For instance, I commented on maybe changing a certain garment (after stating quite honestly how amazing someone looked) and found out it greatly upset them because it was their prized shirt from X that was all they had, etc. So what someone's triggers are and the degree to which someone responds may not be proportional to the initial comments which can often be well intended and kind. Of course, not all commentators are so well intentioned. There was one person who I swear could have been a rep for FFS and was rather ummmm... strong in their language. I think almost everyone on the thread went berserk whenever they wrote.

Also, I think that Kelly_Aus's point and posts are really great. I love that she posts her pics and quite rightly points out that she passes and yet time after time someone will point out this or that feature. Here is what I think... We are primed to be concerned about passing as we identify with the gender and want to be seen and received as matching that gender. Because we are so concerned about doing so, we are already searching for anything that might show that we are not. As a result, we look at ourselves with a desire to see female but always picking out the male traits we desire to be gone. When someone then posts in a passing thread, we are already doing the same negative list in our heads (not always writing it to the participant) of whatever features they have that register at all as male (on mtf threads) rather than looking at the whole face. A face is more than the sum of its parts. To me, some of the most beautiful women have some of the strangest facial features but as a whole they look stunning (might have a high forehead, square chin, or thick eyebrows and so on).
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tekla

See, now my opinion is more important than other people's opinion.  I'm special.


All Animals Are Equal
people with avatars with their own pictures are more equal than others





No less valid.





No more either.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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