Maybe so. But whatever the cause, anxiety can be dealt with.

Just to throw another question out there. Kelly, do you suppose that the reason you find it hard to relate to people of your own age group could have anything to do with a perception, either conscious or subconscious, that they somehow experienced life differently to you while growing up, and that maybe you're missing some key experience, whatever it may be, that would enable you to feel any sort of commonality with them?

It would definitely include that. I'm not sure to what extent their differing experiences while growing up affect me... but I believe that it plays a part. It might be more subconscious than anything else, I suppose - while I don't actively see it hinder my relation to cis girls my age, I am quite troubled by it when I think about it. When I think about it, I feel a space between me and them - as if they are far away, and better than me.

Perhaps it plays a bigger part than I had imagined.


@ MacKenzie: My 'anxiety' is very selective if you're right. If I were shy around most people, and just a lot more shy around others... I would probably agree. However, I can be quite the extrovert when I'm dealing with other TS, and with a few cis.

Quote from: Seyranna on April 13, 2012, 06:50:01 AM
I don't know why you mention cis people this is merely regular S.A.D. and lack of confidence.

For me it's the other way around. I only have cis friends I don't see myself befriending other trans because it's like "hey you have cancer and I have cancer OMG let's hang out together!"  I just don't hang out in LGBT spaces for the most part and I'm not comfortable around unpassable trans women. So I guess you could say that I'm a transphobic trans <.<

Unpassable trans women should not make you uncomfortable. I suspect this is because if someone sees you with an 'unpassable' trans woman they may look closer at your features and realise you were born male? Perhaps it is your own confidence that needs a boost?

The only people who make me uncomfortable are bullies and ignorant people. I like diversity and if I had issues of being uncomfortable around certain groups I would mix with them more in an attempt to try and correct my issues. Btw there are so so many trans woman who talk about being in stealth and passing yet they don't, it's a delusion. That's sad (the way people must conform to what others want) but not a reason to avoid people, many people portray an image and believe it very much, it helps them get on with life.

I've never felt this way and have zero trans friends. I know a few trans people but they just didn't seem to be people I really wanted to be friends or hang out with. Most of them seem to be obsessed with being trans I honestly don't care if people understand me as far as why I am trans.

I agree with the poster who relates this to "hey you have cancer and I have cancer OMG let's hang out together!". It's not that I am uncomfortable around other trans people, just never met one I had a lot in common with other than we are both trans. I'm not stealth so it's not about that either.. It's just being trans isn't a reason to base a friendship on.

Quote from: amberrain on April 17, 2012, 02:24:47 AM
I like diversity and if I had issues of being uncomfortable around certain groups I would mix with them more in an attempt to try and correct my issues.

Then again I find "groups of trans women" mostly obnoxious and most of the time focus either on how bad being trans sucks or some other trans related issues. Being trans is a very back burner issue for me now and I don't feel I need to hang out with obnoxious, negative people to "correct my issues" with them.

 Unpassing (unpassable is a word filled with dread) trans women are understandable to be uncomfortable around. At times, they can act very masculinely, and most of the time their voice is very male, and often this is without feminine speech mannerisms.

These traits, when put together with potentially going full-time/part-time, can be uncomfortable to deal with as when you're around them, they will be a centre of attention, which by extention puts you under a spotlight.

Alternatively, their masculine-at-times presentation could be uncomfortable by itself, even if you are in a safe environment. Sometimes you have to wonder if they really are women with how they act and speak... and while they might claim it to be an act, they have a tendancy to "act" even when they don't have to.

I think being uncomfortable with non-passing trans women is a bit counterproductive, and I'm glad that I can be comfortable around most of them... but it's totally understandable why someone would not be, and there doesn't have to be much or any other psychological reason behind it.



In my experience, trans women are usually pretty cool. Trans-related discussion is the minority of things as far as I have seen - I suppose I'm just lucky for that, and for the fact that so far, we have all tended to be nerds. Plenty of stuff to have in common...

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on April 17, 2012, 01:18:46 AM
When I think about it, I feel a space between me and them - as if they are far away, and better than me.

Sorry for the late reply, but this certainly illuminates a few things.

Maybe you're experiencing a sort of perfomance anxiety, hon. Like... hmm... you feel you have to somehow live up to cis girls of your own age group's expectations or something, or somehow 'fit in' with them, and that makes you hyper-aware of yourself when you speak to them, therefore stifling any sort of natural, free-flowing interaction as you constantly internally evaluate yourself in relation to this.

"Was that the right thing to say?"

"Can they relate to what I just said?"

"What if my perception of <this> idea is different to theirs? What will they think?"

Which in turn leads to a certain awkwardness, or hesitance, which just heightens the anxiety.

I am curious though, about what you said with regard to being better than you. Is that something that you feel yourself, or that you believe they feel?

 That sounds pretty much perfectly accurate, Sephirah

As to the better-than-me thing... yeah, most of that is what based on how I feel. I don't really see them as being better than me, but that's what it feels like at times. And a lot of the time, I'm sure they'd feel superior to me if they knew about me being trans. When people have known, that's the feeling I got a lot of the time...

... which tends to put me on the defensive. My biggest flaw is that I get defensive so easily.

^.^

It's not a flaw, hon. No doubt you have reasons for it, and it's saved you from a lot of pain in the past.

But it is something that can be worked on.

If I can be frank, I think that a lot of the problem comes from an assumption that cis people are going to be scrutinising you as closely as you scrutinise yourself. I don't think you're alone with this, either, I think it's a problem that a lot of trans folks face. Your perspective is too internal. When you're in a situation where you talk to cis people, particularly girls of your own age, you're busy concentrating on what you feel you should be doing rather than just doing it, you know? And perhaps this comes from a deeper, subconscious idea that you have to somehow be like the people you're talking to.

The only thing I can really say, hon, is that in future conversations maybe try to remember that you don't have to try to be a woman. You already are one. That you had different life experiences doesn't lessen this fact one bit. And the girls of your own age will have had experiences in their lives which differed considerably from you and every other girl your age. Your differences are what make you unique, and interesting, and valuable. Women come in all shapes, sizes and colours. Each is as unique as a snowflake. Cookie cutters are only good for cutting cookies, hence the name.

And also, cis girls have just as many insecurities as you, some a whole lot more. We all have our secrets and things we don't want others to know. Heck for all you know, the person you're talking to could be thinking the exact same thing you are, and wondering if you're watching every thing they do, and feel that you're better than them, for whatever reason. That sort of thing isn't restricted to being trans. One girl I know, she had a miscarriage and every time she spoke her eyes were darting around and she was really quiet, hesitant, looking to see if anyone could 'tell', because her parents gave her a really hard time over it, made her feel like crap etc. I won't go into anymore detail sufficed to say that she is actually one of the nicest people you could ever meet, and it was only the emotional baggage that prevented her from expressing that, her own idea that somehow everyone would notice something about her.

The truth of it is that most people are more interested in what someone's got to say than the background of the person who's saying it. Especially if you've only just met.

As you've said, you're confident in your passability, so you just need to stop thinking about it, and do it.

I was at an event with a lot of trans folk in attendance with a healthy mix of LGBs. I was trying to chat with folks after the event, and I recall this one trans man in particular who I only got to chat with very briefly. I got the impression that maybe he thought I was trans and it gradually dawned on him that I (probably) wasn't and he seemed to quickly lose interest in talking with me.

I'm well aware that this could all be in my head, and in fact probably is. So I'm really just expressing that it felt that way to me. I don't feel superior to trans guys. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that part (but only part) of my motivation for wanting to chat with him was because I found him attractive. (Non-reciprocated feelings of attraction don't contribute much to delusions of superiority) That's why I think it's probably just in my head, blaming it on being cis, kind of like when a str8 guy gets turned down by a woman he's flirting with and for the sake of his pride he may convince himself "she must be a lesbian!" 

Quote from: Sephirah on April 18, 2012, 11:36:01 PM
It's not a flaw, hon. No doubt you have reasons for it, and it's saved you from a lot of pain in the past.

But it is something that can be worked on.

...

As you've said, you're confident in your passability, so you just need to stop thinking about it, and do it.

For me, the issue has been present for ages, and I might say was even stronger back in school... except I didn't have any Ts in my life, so it just felt like I was universally disliked.  I did like what you said, though, as here:

QuoteAnd perhaps this comes from a deeper, subconscious idea that you have to somehow be like the people you're talking to.

That's pretty correct. I don't think the issue has a whole lot to do with me being trans, although that is a part of it, so much as it just has to do with my experiences as a whole. I've always tried to be like the person I'm talking to for the sake of getting along - sometimes to the point of contradicting myself, as I would say one thing to one person, and another to another person because of this.

The trans thing makes it a little bigger, I'd suppose.

I might guess at one thing... that, perhaps, I still carry some leftovers from school. I'm probably still searching for a personality flaw that I can blame for being the reason I was an outcast then (and now).

I was never sure what it was about me that appeared to repel people, and I have yet to do more than guess at it. This mystery, at the time, would have been responsible for me trying to become like whoever I was talking to in order to relate better, as being myself was quite obviously not good enough.

And I imagine it's that same feeling that persists. It was blurred slightly by finding other Ts to befriend... I was and am myself around them, and for the most part I would say I'm fairly liked as a person when I'm not causing drama (which is unfortunate, as I find drama to be quite fun). I only do that occasionally, in any case... However, it's probable that I have people talking behind my back about me, and it's probable that I'm not liked nearly as much as I would think I am. I am aware that it goes on - to what extent I can only guess at.

So that's why I'm searching, I suppose. I still think there's something about me that people don't like - it's just a personality issue, more than a trans one. It just happens to be that trans people have been more accepting of me, which isn't really all that surprising.

My best guesses would be either my reckless lack of awareness toward what the person I'm talking to is feeling, or the fact that I speak my mind, thinking only a little about how what I will say will affect the other person. If I bother them, I might not pick up on it half the time, and if I do notice, I don't usually understand why they're bothered, as all I'm doing is being honest - and not brutally so.

Just thinkin' aloud. Writing one's thoughts down is much better than talking about them, as you can order and organize them, and write as slowly as you like so that you can think about every word.

I will admit I am frightened of Cis-people  to a slight extent.

It's not an innate thing but rather I'm frightened that if they find out they might persecute or attack me for begin a transsexual rather than anything else. It's happened before and prior to when I was passable I would get laughed at called names and intimidated. I don't wish to return to that situation. While I don't know exactly how fallible this defence is I still consider it to be my best defence.

I'm comfortable interacting with the public. This is something I enjoy because, in a sense, I'm educating them.

I have not started HRT quite yet, but I'm afraid of getting close to a lot of cis people. I always feel like crap when other girls look at me. I always feel like they're saying "Ha! We're girls and you aren't!"

Feels bad.