Quote from: A on April 23, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
Not sure what I wanted was clear. And I'm really, really worrying a lot all of a sudden, so I felt the need to post again. Do you think there's any hope for me? Was anyone in a situation similar to mine ("natural" muscle despite zero training) and seen improvement? Is there anything I can do? :x

I can kinda relate...although I'm not very far along in terms of results so I'm not so sure how much good I'm going to be as far as useful.
I swam for a huge portion of my life, and at the end of my swimming days I did weights and boxing as well for training. What a mistake that was, sure it helped then and it helped me feel like I fit in but wow do I wish I could take that back. Anyway, I stopped all this craziness about 5 years ago, and despite being MUCH less active than I was, I still maintained all that bulk that I had put on.
Since starting hrt though I've been really really dedicated to the gym and I put in at least an hour of cardio daily and after I try to fit in about 30 mins or so of yoga as well. It started out as a chore but now I totally love doing all of it, it makes me feel good, and I'll even say that now I'm in the best shape of my life (despite being nationally ranked when I was 18, go figure).
I know for a fact that I'm dropping muscle mass now. The bulk is slowly fading and I find that things that I used to lift no problem are becoming a problem. When I look in the mirror to me its harder for me to see the changes, but with a tape measurer its clear that things are fading.

Point being to all this, of course there is hope for you. Even if you were destined to be muscular and fit genetically, with the testosterone in your system properly blocked, I don't think that your body will be able to maintain your muscles at the size that they are. I hadn't done any sort of upper body workout in ages (and now I avoid it like the plague) and was maintaining what I had until I started taking spiro, and now that the dosage seems to be right that muscle that I was maintaining without putting in any effort is starting to fade away. Not as fast as I would like, but hey, it's progress.

Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 23, 2012, 10:53:27 AM


As for the 3 year quote, does that also apply to the reduction of body hair? My body hair is GREATLY reduced, but there's still a bit on my tummy that annoys me to no end.

Outside of facial hair (beard), your overall hair should reduce and become thinner... perhaps even lighter.  The hair on my belly I have waxed, and I noticed it wasn't as dark as before, but I will probably still get laser on it.  I had laser on my lower arms, so they're ok, and my chest and upper arms were never hairy at all........

As far as muscle, even natural muscle, yes, it should become more elongated with HRT.   The best thing to atrophy the muscles is inactivity, but we are constantly moving our muscles.  But toning them with excersise and HRT can reduce and lengthen muscle.  I see it working on my biceps.  I always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms.  Quickest way to atrophy muscle!!  (If you've never had a cast on, it's amazing how thin your arm or leg can become with just two weeks in a cast).  Of course, it's not practical...... possibly not even possible to get the material.... but it was always one of those daydreams of mine! 

Quote from: A on April 23, 2012, 07:56:46 PM
Yup, that's what I meant.

Actually, I know that many get a lot of reduction; swimmers, bodybuilders and all. But what worries me the most is that my muscle is all natural - it's over the male average and I've never trained for it at all - and I've more or less had it since my childhood, if I look at the pictures. I wonder if HRT can do much about something that seems more genetic than anything else.

I really, really wish there were anti-steroids.

I never worked to have the muscle i had, and i had no problem losing it. It took my triceps about 7 months, but they finally reduced to acceptable, and those muscles had always been there.

Quote from: auburnaubrey on April 23, 2012, 09:01:38 PMI always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms.  Quickest way to atrophy muscle!!  (If you've never had a cast on, it's amazing how thin your arm or leg can become with just two weeks in a cast).  Of course, it's not practical...... possibly not even possible to get the material.... but it was always one of those daydreams of mine! 

Daydream thief.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on April 24, 2012, 10:07:45 AM
I never worked to have the muscle i had, and i had no problem losing it. It took my triceps about 7 months, but they finally reduced to acceptable, and those muscles had always been there.

That's reassuring. Now, down to next worry: hoping that under that, my bones have a manageable size.

Due to stress when i started transition i lost 4 stone in weight, HRT has made me loose strength in my upper body, my lower is still strong as i run alot, do not know if its muscle loss making me feel dam cold all the time now, pre HRT i felt warm and the cold did not bother me much.

I think this is mostly metabolism reduction. I personally don't see a difference, since I've been cold all the time for a while prior to starting HRT; probably due to the loss of that huge amount of isolating fat. o.o

Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 05:23:00 PM
I think this is mostly metabolism reduction. I personally don't see a difference, since I've been cold all the time for a while prior to starting HRT; probably due to the loss of that huge amount of isolating fat. o.o

You may be right might have been my ex blubber keeping me warm, would like to see a loss in calf muscle but time will tell i suppose.

Quote from: auburnaubrey on April 23, 2012, 09:01:38 PMI always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms.  Quickest way to atrophy muscle!!

Hrmm, that nasty thing *down there* is muscle...hrmmm, so a cast huh? 

Quote from: amdee on April 24, 2012, 05:18:06 PM
do not know if its muscle loss making me feel dam cold all the time now, pre HRT i felt warm and the cold did not bother me much.

I don't know what it is, but I am MUCH colder than I used to be...  I used to sleep with my AC at like 70 or 71.  Now it's 74 to 75.  I get cold REAL fast.  I think it's because the skin is so much more sensitive... as I have the same reaction to hot: EG: I used to take my oatmeal bowl out of the microwave with no problem... now the bowl is too hot for my hands....

Well, I suppose my electric bill enjoys me on HRT....

Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 24, 2012, 05:31:17 PM
Hrmm, that nasty thing down there is muscle...hrmmm, a cast huh? 

Bwah ha ha ha!!

Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.

And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o

Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.

And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o

I also am colder more, even though I weigh a ton.  My hands and feet are always icy.

And A, you are from Canada right?  And so you use metric and Celsius?  She meant she sets it to keep the house at 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.

And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o

Ahhh... used to be setting the tempurature at 71 degrees farenheit now warmer at 75 degrees farenheit.

Also, my cat seemed to get a LOT more soft and fluffy when I pet her!

Aaaaaah, right. Hadn't even thought of degrees Farenheit.

*Converts*

21 °C to 23 °C. Okaaaay.

As for your cat, people often report an improved sense of touch, and sometimes smell. The former could just be the thinning of the skin, or could also somehow be a result of more sensitivity, and I have no idea of the cause for the second.

I've always had more of the "bulky/heavy" strength rather than muscle really. This effect still scares me though. Think I posted on it before.

  I experienced muscle and bone mass gain over the nearly 18 months on this stuff.  This was due to the lifetime hormonal mismatch of too much T in my system causing that part of the endocrine system to reduce the benefits such as more muscle mass that it is intended.  It is an irony that having the normal hormone levels of a woman in her 30's that brought this on.  This is welcome to this 59 year old simply because I never experienced this kind of thing before. 
  I will enjoy this effect as long as I will have It. 
  The Spiro is the culprit here in regaining the lost sensitivity in my fingers caused by the nearly 30 years of handling, desoldering, troubleshooting and resoldering components back on PC boards with lead solder with the many punctures over those years to cause insensitivity in my fingers.  The Spiro did do the flushing as part of its diuretic function.  I can identify the different same sized objects in my pocket now. 
  Joelene