Do you ever get to the point where you don't feel shame periodically?

It just seems to grab me now and then. I'll be listening to a Pink video and I'll hear a voice inside me saying "what's the matter with you. You're a balding middle-aged man listening to chick music". Or I'll be reading a great book about an interesting female character I identify with and I'll get a fleeting thought like "you know if she were real and you actually met her, she'd probably think you were some kind of creep."

Don't get me wrong, I do get a lot of pleasure out of listening to female singers like Katy Perry and Pink (or when in a nostalgic mood, Belinda Carlyle and Pat Benetar). It gives me some kind of strange girl energy that is hard to explain (but people reading this might understand). But it's hard to shake the feeling now and then that I "should" do things more appropriate to my biological gender.

Does that ever go away completely?

Does being "out" help?

I don't feel any shame for anything nowadays.  Doubt for sure, and uncertainty, but never shame.
I was always into a few female singers in my teenage years, Melanie, Mary Hopkins, Grace Slick, Sandy Denny, Maddy Prior.  Along with Hendrix, Cream and Bob Marley.
How's that for eclectic tastes?

Nowadays I have gone from heavy rock , back to 60's folk-rock and women like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Christina Aguilera, Pink, Natasha Beddingfield and Natalie Bassingthwaite.
There is just music really, and what you like at any given moment.

I wouldn't worry about it.  Just enjoy it, and if anyone says anything, you can claim that you like them for their vocal ability, songwriting or any music theory terms you can come up with. I just say I find it interesting to try and play on guitar.

Karen.

I have jewel albums stacked on top of Lisa Loeb/Nirvana/Dead Letter Circus/Nine Inch Nails.

If you like the female energy and it clicks with you then just enjoy it. I felt shame going to woolworths in eyeliner the first time but now I go to Mine Sites in Purple nail polish. Shame goes away as you start to accept yourself regardless of other people's opinions and also seems to be less of an issue the more open you are and the more often you do it. I crank the Brittney with the windows down with my GF in the car and she is more shamefull. Own it. Fake it till you make it. Do it if it feels good!

If anyone questions me as a Diesel Fitter I say "Sparkle sparkle mother F**ker"

It doesn't "go away" but your acceptance should rise and that does help.

So whats wrong with listening to "chick" music if you like it?

I think that the key to overcoming shame is accepting who you are. There is only one of you in the universe, and you are a special person. There is really no reason that you should feel shame about who you are or what you like.

With that said, acceptance is a process and it simply takes a lot of time and introspection. You also have to be willing to disregard  what society says you should be/should do. Be yourself. It took me about two years to finally accept myself.

I'm a guy that owns more pairs of heels than his wife, and i've long ago gotten past feeling shame about it.

I tend to keep my shame for moral matters and matters of conduct, bit of music and a good book are not important enough to be ashamed of. Though sometimes I do get a whiff of how ridiculous I am, but I reckon all people get that.

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 25, 2012, 02:10:30 PM
I tend to keep my shame for moral matters and matters of conduct, bit of music and a good book are not important enough to be ashamed of. Though sometimes I do get a whiff of how ridiculous I am, but I reckon all people get that.

Yeah, maybe shame isn't the right word. Maybe I feel ridiculous. Like the tone deaf people who post youTube videos imagining they'll be the next Justin Bieber or the people who go broke investing all their savings in an invention no one is interested in. Somewhere along the line I internalized that imagining you're someone you're not makes you pathetic.

When I was in denial about my gender identity I'd feel shame about enjoying anything that was girly or wrong for Men now that I accept and live as me it doesn't matter if it is a girly or manly thing if I would enjoy something I do it -  no shame no guilt but it has been a long and rough path to get to that point.

I somehow get the feeling that doing "girly" stuff as a man is often a bigger issue  socially than doing "boyish" stuff as a woman... I've had a bit of shame about my likes and dislikes, too, but not because of them being gendered, just because I don't always appreciate the things I "should" in my social circles.

But I feel shame about these things quite often, too. Mostly I feel a bit ashamed that I don't fit into any groups without having a role. I change a lot and my gender is a bit fluid I guess. Most people I've known have always said change is a good thing and everything changes, but I change a lot - in appearance, in my thoughts, everything... Most of my relationships have broken because people couldn't really handle that and thought I faked all the change, when my problem back then was that I didn't know why I had this urge to be really masculine one day and quite feminine the other... Maybe accepting this non-binary and fluid identity helps with the shame, too.

Shame like you're speaking of only exists while you care more what other people think about you than what you think about yourself. When you place doing what you think is right over doing what feels right.

One way to overcome it is to accept things for what they are rather than what associations people attribute to them and then allowing a chain of thought to develop where you start to place associations upon yourself.

As I've said before. Don't think, feel.

Quote from: agfrommd on April 25, 2012, 06:37:43 AM
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1. Does that ever go away completely?

2. Does being "out" help?

1. YES, post-transition

2. Absolutely

and as always ... YMMV.

Axélle
PS: If you 'grove' on shame and guild, as some folks just will --- that's what you'll do ... grove on it. No matter what.

Quote from: Phoeniks on July 06, 2012, 08:25:51 AM
I somehow get the feeling that doing "girly" stuff as a man is often a bigger issue  socially than doing "boyish" stuff as a woman... I've had a bit of shame about my likes and dislikes, too, but not because of them being gendered, just because I don't always appreciate the things I "should" in my social circles.

I agree. I wonder if it has to do with society's misogynistic aspects. Liking "male" things, etc. is pretty much condoned (even expected in some circles). Though I think in my case, I don't know if is the Asperger's or what but I definitely feel pretty free to do things that give other f towards m people pause, like going and buying male underwear. I am aware that society has a certain limit to how tolerant they are.

I think those of you trying to take on female aspects have a harder time.

--Jay Jay