Hello, If I may ask a question of you?

Why do you need/want a Church?

This mystifies me and I would like to understand.

Thank you kindly.

This is just a quick response, as I need to prepare for work [more later]:

Revelation 21

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

After the absolute hell that I have been through in this life, nothing short of Truth and Heaven will suffice.

I don't think you need a church.

I think what you need is something beyond yourself. You need a greater purpose beyond self.

My family, my faith community, my local community, my nation, my world - all give me a reason to be more than an individual that is only concerned about myself.

I like to believe that I'd be willing to give up my life for any of these five communities (I'm certain I would for the first two, but maybe not the last three) For me, this willingness to give up your life for others, is the message of Jesus dieing on he cross. Jesus didn't die for our sins. That's absurd. Jesus died because he spoke truth to power for the good of the world. And he was not willing to stop speaking that truth even if it meant his own death.

I think what we all need is to realize that there are things out there that are more important and more enduring than ourselves or our own happiness. For me that realization - that my life isn't just about me- has been nurtured by my church so that is why I am an active member of my faith community.


Debbie

a church is a building? who needs a building? or maybe it is a group of people, aka a congregation? a prison is a congregation of people, too. if you need to find beauty, you can find it anywhere if you know how to look for it...if you need to find G_D, you only have to open your eyes...

Church, i think not.  I need not church or the Christian God for my strength, for I have Mother Earth, and she nourishes and helps me and everyone else grow.  She gives me my home and food, and I give her back love and care.

The main purpose of a church is to learn and explore the bible.  It is also a way of setting aside time to specifically focus on God.  It is possible to get by without a church, but it is a tool that many people find useful in learning to be closer to God.  I still have very mixed beliefs at the moment as many of them have been shaped by the real world despite being raised as a christian.  Oh well, I'll get them sorted out one of these days.

A church (or synagogue or mosque or temple or coven or whatever...) is a community you come together with to support one another, grow together, and to help one another seek for meaning in your lives.  It is a place you can seek god and god can seek you in the faces of those around you.  It is a place where you learn to love and to be loved. 

If you do not find these things in the church you attend, then it is the prison that jeri spoke of.  Which are you in?  The building will give you no clues.  Ask whether the truth has set you free, or if the "truth" has made you a prisoner.  By their fruits you will know them.

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 20, 2007, 12:34:25 PM
A church (or synagogue or mosque or temple or coven or whatever...) is a community you come together with to support one another, grow together, and to help one another seek for meaning in your lives.  It is a place you can seek god and god can seek you in the faces of those around you.  It is a place where you learn to love and to be loved.

That is a great answer Lisbeth. I have been to churches were God's spirit is not very evident and I have been to others where I deeply sensed the presence of God.

You may seek out a  church "(or synagogue or mosque or temple or coven or whatever...)" because you "need" it but eventually I would hope that you enter into the fellowship and give as well as receive. It is when that happens that you truly have found a home.

Debbie

A church is a place where people can study and question the bible together.

As ministers have stated any religion is one generation away from disappearing.

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 20, 2007, 12:34:25 PM
A church (or synagogue or mosque or temple or coven or whatever...) is a community you come together with to support one another, grow together, and to help one another seek for meaning in your lives.  It is a place you can seek god and god can seek you in the faces of those around you.  It is a place where you learn to love and to be loved. 

If you do not find these things in the church you attend, then it is the prison that jeri spoke of.  Which are you in?  The building will give you no clues.  Ask whether the truth has set you free, or if the "truth" has made you a prisoner.  By their fruits you will know them.

This is very true. Churches, no matter what their configuration or belief system, are for fellowship. Scripture says to "not forsake the assembling," since we grow stronger when we can be a part of each others' lives.

A lot of us try to live out our lives in isolation. This isn't very easy, but to many of us in the GLBT community, it seems like it's a necessity. One man I know says he goes to church to "recharge." Others go to do the religious thing.

But for me, it's a matter of genuine fellowship. As I spend time with those who share my faith, we can all encourage each other. We can strip off our masks and be open... but that's not always the case is it?

To each their own. Everyone has their own walk and their own journey. No matter what that journey is, we grow stronger when we're in good company.

Quote from: David W. Shelton on April 23, 2007, 06:06:44 AM
But for me, it's a matter of genuine fellowship.

Bah that's what we get at your house on Friday nights

Quote from: Susan on April 23, 2007, 06:39:41 AM

Quote from: David W. Shelton on April 23, 2007, 06:06:44 AM
But for me, it's a matter of genuine fellowship.

Bah that's what we get at your house on Friday nights

"Where ever two or more are gathered..." for a greater purpose (my paraphrase), "...there I will be also". To be in community with each other IS a greater purpose.

Debbie

Its a feeling of being home, at least for me. I can get by without church, and have for years, but I hope I can find a church that I feel at home again. One where it feels right to pray at.

It was probably the one place as a child that I felt at peace at.

Quote from: debbiej on April 23, 2007, 08:05:13 AM

Quote from: Susan on April 23, 2007, 06:39:41 AM
Bah that's what we get at your house on Friday nights

"Where ever two or more are gathered..." for a greater purpose (my paraphrase), "...there I will be also". To be in community with each other IS a greater purpose.

Debbie

It was a inside joke. David has a Sci-fi friday where a bunch of GLBT people gather at his house and watch Sci-fi and movies together

Quote from: Susan on April 23, 2007, 08:51:55 AM
It was a inside joke. David has a Sci-fi friday where a bunch of GLBT people gather at his house and watch Sci-fi and movies together

It sounds like fun. "Plan 9 From Outerspace"? I attended a Quaker seminary (I'm not Quaker though) where some of us gathered to watch the most violent movies we could find (the Terminator movies were a favorite). It was an interesting contrast to our class on Peace and Justice.

Still - it was mostly for the fellowship and hence the greater purpose that I mentioned.

Debbie

Quote from: Susan on April 23, 2007, 08:51:55 AM
It was a inside joke. David has a Sci-fi friday where a bunch of GLBT people gather at his house and watch Sci-fi and movies together

Hee hee.  My church has a Sci-Fi small group that watches the new Battlestar Galactica and talks about the meanings in it.  My son goes to that.

David, I love your signature.

Quote from: Elissa on April 23, 2007, 08:25:17 AM
I can get by without church, and have for years, but I hope I can find a church that I feel at home again. One where it feels right to pray at.

That's why my answer was framed as it was.  If the question had been, "Why do you need god?" or, "Why do you need spirituality?" it would have been different.

Quote from: David W. Shelton on April 23, 2007, 06:06:44 AM

This is very true. Churches, no matter what their configuration or belief system, are for fellowship. Scripture says to "not forsake the assembling," since we grow stronger when we can be a part of each others' lives.

A lot of us try to live out our lives in isolation. This isn't very easy, but to many of us in the GLBT community, it seems like it's a necessity. One man I know says he goes to church to "recharge." Others go to do the religious thing.

But for me, it's a matter of genuine fellowship. As I spend time with those who share my faith, we can all encourage each other. We can strip off our masks and be open... but that's not always the case is it?

To each their own. Everyone has their own walk and their own journey. No matter what that journey is, we grow stronger when we're in good company.

I couldn't agree more.

I attend church to be Church with other people.  (Change in capitalization intentional.)  It's not the building.  It's the sharing.

Chaunte

It is the fellowship within the congregation that has the most meaning in my opinion. And in many cases, the beliefs and doctrines of that particular congregation may have little to do with the spiritual power that group of people may share.

My mother needs the church so that she can let them take her money, so she can be told what to believe, and so that she my feel justified in her guilt.  She finds very little fellowship where she attends.  I wish that I could help her understand that she needs to find a new path for her religious beliefs... for religion and faith should be a happy thing.  Unfortunately for her, her "church" dictates where she may attend services

But back to the power of fellowship and love.  That, my friends, is truly worth finding. If it is real, your personal beliefs may have little bearing on the positive aspects of membership.

(And that's from a person who many would consider a dyed in the wool atheist... but you all know that I'm totally off the wall when it comes to religion and faith)

Cindi

Quote from: Susan on April 23, 2007, 06:39:41 AM

Quote from: David W. Shelton on April 23, 2007, 06:06:44 AM
But for me, it's a matter of genuine fellowship.

Bah that's what we get at your house on Friday nights

But I thought the Friday night gatherings were so that the GLBT mafia can plan to take over the world? DAMN! I knew I had it mixed up!

The whole of life as i know it, in it's currently perceptible 3 dimensional form, IS my Church. All of nature. My home. The brain or body of a friend or lover is all the same immeasurably sacred space to me. This must include those i still find fault, hatred, ill, or judgement towards - and i do - I still have a good bit of "de-conditioning" of negative programming to work on....

Mankind seems largely to have lost touch and awareness of the interconnectedness of all things, good, bad, or otherwise. To me, the entire universe could be our church, if we could only see it in ourselves and each other more clearly.

Sincerely,
LoveForever,


Annagirl