Quote from: insideontheoutside on April 11, 2012, 10:12:45 PM
And I'm making sure people know what putting quotes around a word means. But I see that everything has to have the proper definition around here because no one can be outside the box or trying something different. Once the trans community adopts a word the definition is set in stone.

Words only have the meanings that people collectively agree they have. The definition is not set in stone, but it's also not up for personal interpretation.

The "trans community" is a joke btw.

Carry on.

I agree with Andy and Poptart - living stealth means to live in your chosen gender and not revealing to new people that you are transgendered.  I think you mean being in the closet - living in your birth gender, not your chosen gender and hiding your transgendered status.

It's silly to use the word stealth to mean either/or for two completely different concepts - in this case or any case - not very efficient.

I think the term "stealth" could be taken either or as long as you define the context of the word. Not everything has to have one strict meaning and to me it is not silly.

I'm currently living as female but not many people know I'm trans.  Now in that text do I consider myself "stealth"?  Heck yeah I do since not many people know.

Which one sounds more badass?  "I'm hiding in the closet and not many know that I'm transgendered because I haven't came out yet?"  OR "I'm as stealth as Solid Snake baby!"

and to lighten the mood:

I think for practical purposes, definitions should be clear.  If someone here says, "i'm stealth, yada, yada, yada....", then people have to wonder - does he/she mean in the closet or stealth?

It's just inefficient - what if every word has two or more completely different meanings?

I don't see the problem. Inside is welcome to his own use of a word. He defined what he meant in the OP, so it should be fine. It's a turn of phrase.

Quote from: sonopoly on April 12, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
It's just inefficient - what if every word has two or more completely different meanings?

Lots of words have different meanings and those meanings are based in context.

No one has to agree with Inside's choice of the word at all, but he is welcome to his own definition. For the record, I felt like I was acting in a steathy or sneaky manner when I was pretending to be female.

And with that, I am going to step out of the conversation.

Yeah, but he had to write a long post to define a word which shouldn't need that much definition (and people were still confused)  It's like saying, "I have a cat that jumps around on his two hind legs and has a pouch, but he's a cat, because I say so".

Quote from: sonopoly on April 12, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
I think for practical purposes, definitions should be clear.  If someone here says, "i'm stealth, yada, yada, yada....", then people have to wonder - does he/she mean in the closet or stealth?

It's just inefficient - what if every word has two completely different meanings?

I see where you are coming from and yes definitions should be clear and for the most part currently "stealth" is defined as what Andy has stated.  However if the OP felt that was the only context of stealth then there would be no need to put it in quotes.  He could of easily asked, "Are you stealth?" and lets face it, to me that would have been a boring question because a lot of guys are stealth.  There aren't many guys I know walking around openly telling people that they are trans or whatnot. 

We already know that some of the guys here are stealth or at least trying to be and that's fine at all but for the guys out there *cough cough* who for whatever reason may be unable or or even chose not to tranition and in result stays presenting as female then term "stealth" used in context and threads like this can serve to act as a fresh of breath air in my opinion instead of the regular "questions about T" or "passing" questions" or types of questions that many "stealth" guys can't get involved with because they aren't transitioning.  I wouldn't call it "inefficient" but rather "diverse".

According to the fictional character of Michaela Carapadis, almost every word has two meanings lol

Then again, I can only speak for myself.

Again though I do meet you at your perspective of keeping the meanings simple.

Quote from: Ayden on April 12, 2012, 11:55:53 PM
Inside is welcome to his own use of a word. He defined what he meant in the OP, so it should be fine. It's a turn of phrase.

IOTO is welcome to his own use of a word. He was pretty clear on what he meant by it. He used it as a convenience and a commentary on the state of things. He lives as a girl, which is indeed a kind of stealth even if not the first definition most of us have for the term. Language is fun, and in english especially, definitions tend not to have isolated and enduring meanings.

Quote from: Malachite on April 12, 2012, 11:39:39 PM
I think the term "stealth" could be taken either or as long as you define the context of the word. Not everything has to have one strict meaning and to me it is not silly.

I do see where the OP is coming from and I understand how "stealth" could apply to pre-transition, but since that isn't the way the word is used among trans people, it only causes confusion. What if people say they're "stealth" in a different post, thinking this is what it means? For the sake of practicality, I agree with this:

Quote from: sonopoly on April 13, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
Yeah, but he had to write a long post to define a word which shouldn't need that much definition.  It's like saying, "I have a cat that jumps around on his two hind legs and has a pouch, but he's a cat, because I say so".

The OP has defined what they mean, though, and it has been established that their definition isn't the common one. So I have no problems with this post -- was just clarifying for people who didn't know.

Sorry guys, i think i lost a bit of humanity here, but you all brought me back.

Quote from: poptart on April 13, 2012, 12:14:11 AM
I do see where the OP is coming from and I understand how "stealth" could apply to pre-transition, but since that isn't the way the word is used among trans people, it only causes confusion. What if people say they're "stealth" in a different post, thinking this is what it means? For the sake of practicality, I agree with this:

The OP has defined what they mean, though, and it has been established that their definition isn't the common one. So I have no problems with this post -- was just clarifying for people who didn't know.

Practicality is good.  It is as good as trial and error.  I think that if a guy stays around in the trans community long enough he will quickly realize what the term "stealth" is usually applied to.  He may learn that very quickly if he were to search "FtM stealth" in Google.  There may be 2 out of 100 results that may refer to stealth in the context as to what the OP was mentioning.  In the chance he does find out the OP's stealth meaning then lets hope the next guy also welcomes a more broader sense of the term so that he won't be as confused next time. 

I totally forgot about this thread! I think it's kinda awesome it provoked a discussion. I do like to be the purveyor of interesting topics and different viewpoints after all

And you know, I never did like the term, "in the closet". Besides, if we're going to get down to semantics that phrase was pioneered by the L&G movement. And really, once you start transitioning and are able to get your legal docs squared away and pass as male, why even use the term stealth anymore? You're just a dude ... like any other dude at that point ... just living your life. Your physiological secret really only needs to be known by who you sleep with (and even then sometimes you can get away with it), and you probably wouldn't use the term stealth when talking to a potential love interest. But hey, that's just my viewpoint. But when you're covertly operating in the female world, that's pretty "stealth" imo!

Quote from: insideontheoutside on May 03, 2012, 01:37:43 AM
covertly operating in the female world

Ooh, I love that description. That's exactly how I feel right now. Like I'm Clark Kent trying to hide the fact he can lift a car without breaking a sweat.

Quote from: driven on May 03, 2012, 08:35:28 AM
Ooh, I love that description. That's exactly how I feel right now. Like I'm Clark Kent trying to hide the fact he can lift a car without breaking a sweat.

Exactly!

Haha, I like it.  I'd take "covert operative" over "dude who looks like a girl" any day.

I've been living as female for a long time since I realized I was male--I actually halfway tried to transition in middle school, but of course I didn't have any resources on being transgender, and didn't really understand it as a thing.

I'm really afraid of losing my relationship with my father if I come out. Ironically, we're very father-son-ish, but he's bad at being an advocate for himself and his children in the face of my family's overwhelming pressure to conform. In private he's quite affectionate and really enjoys my boyishness, we're almost like brothers together, but when I'm at family gatherings I think he feels strange being responsible for me, since I don't fit in at all with the rest of my heteronormative cissexist somewhat racist Southern family. I know he would feel put-upon and awkward explaining my "condition" to the rest of the family, and I think he might distance himself from me about it for a while because he can't deal with having feelings.

He also expressed a lot of concern for my personal safety and career prospects when I told him I was bisexual, so I think he'd want me to become comfortable with being a woman so that I would not face so much trouble living as a trans man.

My mother knows I'm not just female, because she's been there all my life and witnessed my asking for a penis in nursery school and dressing as a boy for several years, etc. But she really dislikes androgyny and I think she has a lot of trouble dealing with my being someone other than her.

Blah blah blah my family sucks. Anyway, more specific answers to questions:

What do you find the hardest part to be about having to live in society as female?
Getting called ma'am all the time, especially as, living in the South, it happens constantly. I can stand being looked at by guys and treated a bit like a lady, because I'm a really girly guy and I can tell myself they're attracted to me as a pretty boy, but ma'am is the worst kind of misgendering to me, because it always sounds so condescending and like they aren't even vaguely supposing I might not be totally cis and female.

What about appearances ... do you still look more female than male?
Hopefully I'll always look kind of girly/femmy. Since I'm not on T and have gained a bit of weight, my face is a bit too girly for me, and I've got enormous breasts I want gone (and large hips too.) So people read my body as female, especially here where I have to wear warm-weather clothing and where androgyny is not usually read as such. This frustrates me. Other than wanting to lose some fat and bulk up some muscle and lose the tits, I'm kind of okay with my looks, I just wish people saw me as "woah really girly dude" rather than "oh kind of dudely girl".

Dress male or female?
I'm wearing a skirt from H&M right now, dude, I think that answers your question.
For parties, bars etc I'll present more like my real self. I go to drag king shows in a binder and with clothing that maximizes the more masculine parts of my body (broad shoulders and chest, long legs), and when I have to go to funerals and other official-ish occasions I wear a lot of black lace or brocade with pants, in a way that is still very queer rock star even though I have boobs.

Does having to "play the part" ever wear you down?
Oh, all the time, but especially around my family, my mother in particular. It's very tiresome to invent excuses for why I want relatively normal guy things, like swim trunks or 'violent things' which weren't considered appropriate for a girl. And I'm very often jealous of my younger brother, not so much because he's cis but because my parents treat him like a boy without his having to fight for everything.

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?
Mainly it's just when they refer to "just us girls" or something, including me in the group. Also, very conservative women will change in front of me, which weirds me out.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?
Mainly it's just when they refer to "just us girls" or something, including me in the group.

I can so relate to that.  Today my sister and her friend were talking about going on a vacation and have it be "just us girls" only.  My stomach dropped.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
My mother knows I'm not just female, because she's been there all my life and witnessed my asking for a penis in nursery school and dressing as a boy for several years, etc.

For me it was asking my mom and dad why I couldn't pee out of my penis (and trying to stand to do so). So yeah, I know from day 1 I was male.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
I'm kind of okay with my looks, I just wish people saw me as "woah really girly dude" rather than "oh kind of dudely girl".

Yeah, this. Exactly. That would definitely be a goal of mine - if people that just thought I was a pretty or andro dude rather than calling me "ma'am".

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
I'm wearing a skirt from H&M right now, dude, I think that answers your question.

I'm all for people NOT wearing gender-specific clothes. Wear what you like, ya know? Most of my fly ass jackets come from the women's department and most people would never know.

Quote from: Malachite on May 04, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
I can so relate to that.  Today my sister and her friend were talking about going on a vacation and have it be "just us girls" only.  My stomach dropped.

Yeah talk about some of the most uncomfortable situations ever. And not just uncomfortable but often just inexplicably stupid as well. Have you ever had the displeasure of attending a Girl Scouts "camp". Ugh. Or a pre-teen girl sleep over? When I was older I'd gotten roped into "girls night" type activities thrown by friends. Watching sappy movies and talking about boyfriends was almost as bad as the pre-teen sleep overs. Seriously I should have gotten some Oscar's for the acting job I've done over the years. That's not to say that every "female only" type of thing I've endured was all bad or that they always act so, you know I don't even know a good word for how some of them act. I remember being at a swanky hotel spa once. Talk about covert operations. I changed in a bathroom stall but the place was crawling with women who'd just get butt naked right there and waltz to the jacuzzi or sauna. I guess they really are like men's spas in that respect! But it was totally one of those "if they only knew" situations lol.